What Would an Investment Grade Long Branch No 4 Mk 1 T Sniper Rifle Set Me Back?

Bartok5

Bartok5

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Hey Fellas,

I am seeking your uniquely Canadian, expert milsurp input here before I branch out to embarassing myself by asking stupid questions in an international milsurps forum or two. Say I happened to have a "spare" $10K to $15K (CAD) kicking around. Would that be enough to net me a Matching Long Branch No 4 Mk 1*(T) with Scope, Scope Tin and Transit Chest in Excellent Condition? By "matching", I expect the scope serial # to be stamped into the topside wrist of the Buttstock, and perhaps (if in service post-1950) the Rifle serial # stamped into the face of the Scope Bracket. Bonus marks if the Scope Tin and Transit Chest have their appropriate labels matched to the Rifle and/or Scope. I would be seeking all of the above, matching, in Excellent Condition and would be prepared to wait for the right equipment to come along. That said, it would be my intention to do a little gentle "prodding" if I happen to learn of the package that I am looking for in a particular, possibly willing owner's hands.

I know of a nice LB No 4 Mk 1*(T) that recently sold for close to $10K on this board. However, I don't know if the Rifle and Scope were matching, or if any of the accessories were matched to the Scope or Rifle. Anyone who was tracking tha sale is welcome to chime in with the details of that particular transaction.

Thanks in advance for your educated opinions regarding the current value of an investment grade LB NO 4 Mk 1*(T) and its principal accessories. If you happen to know of such a set that could be for sale for the right price, then all the better! Please PM me with the details and it it comes to fruition there would be a $500 finder's fee for the person who leads me to the right package with a concluded deal. What say you guys?

I know it's not every day that a high-end Long Branch Sniper appears for sale. That said, it's also not every day that someone is willng and able to drop $10-$15K on the right package. For the right seller at the appropriate stage of life, my offer could be just what he or she is looking for.....


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My "Shooter" clone shown for interest....
 
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If you're looking for a "collector grade" No4 MkI T, you need to be more specific.

British, Canadian, Indian??

Then you have to specify which accessories you expect to get with it or find later, such as smocks, veils, binos, spotting scope etc.

For a complete collector grade outfit $20K-$25K is foreseeable.
 
bearhunter said:
If you're looking for a "collector grade" No4 MkI T, you need to be more specific.

British, Canadian, Indian??

Then you have to specify which accessories you expect to get with it or find later, such as smocks, veils, binos, spotting scope etc.

For a complete collector grade outfit $20K-$25K is foreseeable.
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You did not read my post. There is only one nation that manufactured Long Branch rifles - Canada. I also clearly spelled out exactly what I am seeking in terms of CES accessories - the Scope and Bracket, the Scope Tin and the Transit Chest. I have everything else (including a genuine, unissued Denson Smock) ready to go, except for the Scout Regiment 4-Draw Telescope in its leather case with Tripod. I have an original canvas Rifle Case, Prismatic Compass and Case, Prismatic Binoculars (with Graticle) and Case, GS Pocket Watch, 2 x Camouflage Sniper Veils, Rifle Cleaning Tin and contents, a 1907 Sling and (of course) the useless No 4 bayonet, scabbard and frog. If I am missing something besides the Scout Regiment Telescope, then by all means let me know.
 
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Ah yes, Bartok! One hand on the whisky, and the other with a fine long drawing cigar!

Your valuation is probably not out of line. As both of us know, there are checklists and then there are checklists. You should perhaps read up on the late war sniper literature to understand what the working snipers stuffed into their pockets before going on a stalk. The famous shots of Sgt Harold Marshall of the Cal' Highs' come to mind. His smock was stuffed with "stuff" not necessarily proscribed in someone's orders.

Secondly, let me indulge you with my version of modern math. Think of No.4(T) valuations in multiples. I've suggested this before, and no one has disputed me.

X dollars for a base T Mk I, from BSA or Maltby, with pads - you've got a marked and accurized but without 'scope rifle
2X is a base with mismatched No.32
3-5X matched Mk I and No.32 - condition condition condition
Start factoring in for the No.8 can (original or repro?), extra with leather strap; No.15 chest, bonus if period markings and extra if the numbers match anything. A few hundred bucks if one of the modern reproductions. Scope caps and slings improve the equation. Scout Regiment telescope is nice but not as uncommon as you'd think.
4X for a Mk I* rifle, no scope
2X for any CNo.32 scope
3x for any CNo.32 and Canadian base
8X for a Mk I* and CNo.32 mismatched
upwards of 15X for Mk I* and matched CNo.32
For any correct Canadian parts, including the LB marked No.15 chest and No.8 Mk II rubber boot, expect the buyer to start peeling off the hundreds in stacks of ten. Scope caps and slings are not attributable to a rifle, but add to the attraction! The REL spotters tripod is an amazing invention and worth every $1000 bill paid out!

LB made less than 1000 T rifles and there are 3 Mks of CNo.32 scope. To find the whole is every No.4T collector's grail. Good luck!
 
Bartok5 said:
You did not read my post. There is only one nation that manufactured Long Branch rifles - Canada. I also clearly spelled out exactly what I am seeking in terms of CES accessories - the Scope and Bracket, the Scope Tin and the Transit Chest. I have everything else (including a genuine, unissued Denson Smock) ready to go, except for the Scout Regiment 4-Draw Telescope in its leather case with Tripod. I have an original canvas Rifle Case, Prismatic Compass and Case, Prismatic Binoculars (with Graticle) and Case, GS Pocket Watch, 2 x Camouflage Sniper Veils, Rifle Cleaning Tin and contents, a 1907 Sling and (of course) the useless No 4 bayonet, scabbard and frog. If I am missing something besides the Scout Regiment Telescope, then by all means let me know.
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My bad, I should have read your whole post.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Ah yes, Bartok! One hand on the whisky, and the other with a fine long drawing cigar!

Your valuation is probably not out of line. As both of us know, there are checklists and then there are checklists. You should perhaps read up on the late war sniper literature to understand what the working snipers stuffed into their pockets before going on a stalk. The famous shots of Sgt Harold Marshall of the Cal' Highs' come to mind. His smock was stuffed with "stuff" not necessarily proscribed in someone's orders.

Secondly, let me indulge you with my version of modern math. Think of No.4(T) valuations in multiples. I've suggested this before, and no one has disputed me.

X dollars for a base T Mk I, from BSA or Maltby, with pads - you've got a marked and accurized but without 'scope rifle
2X is a base with mismatched No.32
3-5X matched Mk I and No.32 - condition condition condition
Start factoring in for the No.8 can (original or repro?), extra with leather strap; No.15 chest, bonus if period markings and extra if the numbers match anything. A few hundred bucks if one of the modern reproductions. Scope caps and slings improve the equation. Scout Regiment telescope is nice but not as uncommon as you'd think.
4X for a Mk I* rifle, no scope
2X for any CNo.32 scope
3x for any CNo.32 and Canadian base
8X for a Mk I* and CNo.32 mismatched
upwards of 15X for Mk I* and matched CNo.32
For any correct Canadian parts, including the LB marked No.15 chest and No.8 Mk II rubber boot, expect the buyer to start peeling off the hundreds in stacks of ten. Scope caps and slings are not attributable to a rifle, but add to the attraction! The REL spotters tripod is an amazing invention and worth every $1000 bill paid out!

LB made less than 1000 T rifles and there are 3 Mks of CNo.32 scope. To find the whole is every No.4T collector's grail. Good luck!
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Many thanks for your theory of No 4 (T) pricing. Of course, the fundamental question for all of it is the value of "X". I have no reason to dispute your theory either, as I am just embarking on the journey of learning No 4 (T) valuation, with an understandable emphasis on Long Branch examples. Knowing that a mis-match LB No 4 Mk 1* (T) just sold for under $10K, I think that $15K CAD ought to eventually get me what I am looking for. I am in no hurry, as the journey of discovery and learnning is most of the fun. I have my clone (with repro scope being worked on by Warren) for actual shooting enjoyment, so the collector/investment grade rifle is just going to sit on display in any case.

I have a pretty thorough understanding of the various non-standard/non-issue items that a sniper would stuff in his smock prior to heading out on an extended patrol. I was a professional infantry soldier for 34 years. I am not looking to collect boiled sweets or beef jerky, although both would be relevant to my loadout were I headed out on patrol again tomorrow! No, the items that I seek to collect for my eventual Long Branch No 4 Mk 1* (T) are those which were CES issue and to be packed in the Transit Chest along with the Rifle and its specialist accessories. These items are exactly as I have listed them in my first post above. It is based on the list found in Terence J Evans' excellent booklet "A Guide To The Lee Enfield .303 No. 4 (T) Sniper Rifle]" (Amazon, $24.84, Prime).

If it takes $20K to eventually seal the deal for what I want, then so be it. I am sure that I will be able to find another $5K at the time if it comes down to that. At some point, estates are going to have to sell to SOMEBODY, and I highly doubt that there are THAT many unfulfilled collectors standing by with $15K hanging out of their pockets....
 
Hi Bartok 5. For the standard LB sniping rifle $15,000 is a reasonable guess. That is for the standard 1945 90L rifles that came back as surplus. The contents of the transit chest are often listed on a paper label glued to the inside lid. If you get extremely lucky you may find a Lyman Alaskan full kit for more $$. The C67 set up and the sporter style variants are the top of the food chain and of course muchos doneros more. Not many people will blow 15K plus on any rifle as buyers are few and far so it can be a inheritance liability. With an entire as issued kit being so scarce that most keep it at home rather than flaunt it at a show or range so ask around as many high end items go to amiable collectors rather than rude speculators. After all you want your treasures to go to someone that will treasure it as you did. John
 
There is a No 4 (T) listed on ####### for $7500.

https://www.###########/firearms/rifles/abbotsford/lee-enfield-303-no4-mk1-4-t

https://www.####### .ca/firearms/rifles/abbotsford/lee-enfield-303-no4-mk1-4-t

It is not very close to what you are looking for, in that it is not all matching but he has a bunch of stuff most people won't have.

I suspect $15k would be enough to secure the core of what you seek. I also suspect the cost will not be the biggest challenge, so much as finding what you are after. Thats a pretty rare and specific ask you have set out for yourself.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
There is a No 4 (T) listed on ####### for $7500.

https://www.###########/firearms/rifles/abbotsford/lee-enfield-303-no4-mk1-4-t

https://www.####### .ca/firearms/rifles/abbotsford/lee-enfield-303-no4-mk1-4-t

It is not very close to what you are looking for, in that it is not all matching but he has a bunch of stuff most people won't have.

I suspect $15k would be enough to secure the core of what you seek. I also suspect the cost will not be the biggest challenge, so much as finding what you are after. Thats a pretty rare and specific ask you have set out for yourself.
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It is a nice "shooter grade" No 4 Mk 1*(T) in my honest opinion, if someone where to insist on shooting an original 80 year old optic. The mismatched Buttstock kills it for te degree of collectability that I am seeking, but I certainly appreciate the lead nonetheless. I have the Cleaning Tin (a post-war item), Action Cover, Watch GS, and considerably more items of CES issue than are displayed in the listing, so those ancilliary items are of no interest to me.

I have a lead on a beautiful, matching Long Branch No 4 Mk 1*(T) Rifle, R.E.L. Scope, and original Scope Bracket. It comes with a Canadian Transit Chest and a Canvas Scope Cover, however those items ae not matched to the specific rifle in question. The ask is (not surprisingly) $15K.

I have another lead on a "possible" sale of a mint, all-matching set of Rifle, Scope, Bracket, Canvas Scope Case, and Transit Chest. I do not yet know an asking price, or even if the set will actually come up for sale. I am working on developing this lead, which will involve paying my Finder's Fee.

Options are good to have with a somewhat specific and rare "ask" such as my quest for a mint, all matching No 4 Mk 1*(T) Sniper Rifle kit. I'm in no particular hurry to buy, but then again I don't want to let something close to my wish-list pass me by just because it surfaced right away. Decisions, decisions. This is definitely a good decision to have to make!
 
I have a lead on a beautiful, matching Long Branch No 4 Mk 1*(T) Rifle, R.E.L. Scope, and original Scope Bracket. It comes with a Canadian Transit Chest and a Canvas Scope Cover, however those items ae not matched to the specific rifle in question. The ask is (not surprisingly) $15K.
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In 2018, I know of one complete, correct, everything matching minty LB T in Ontario that sold for $25K. I guess you wouldn't be doing too bad at $15K today with not everything matching?
 
Robbs said:
In 2018, I know of one complete, correct, everything matching minty LB T in Ontario that sold for $25K. I guess you wouldn't be doing too bad at $15K today with not everything matching?
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I am going to go out on a limb and presume that at $25K, that LB No. 4 Mk 1* (T) must have come with a near-complete CES list of accessories to fill up the matching Transit Chest. The stuff that dreams are made of, I reckon. That is out of my price-range, and that degree of fiidelity/authenticity is more than I aspire to with my more limited means. Sure sounds nice though...

I agree that the rifle I have already been offered is worth the asking price of $15K with a mismatched Chest and Scope Case. It is a beautiful Rifle/Scope/Bracket combination, in immaculate condition. Hopefully the owner (who shall remain nameless) won't mind me sharing a photo of his rifle. It is simply so stunningly beautiful that it ought to be shared among an appreciative audience. Perhaps I am a fool to risk losing out on this offering by waiting to see if another, mint, all-matching set works out. I dunno. Time will tell the tale, I reckon. This one checks out in every way in the markings department, just as you would expect. The seller is a well-regarded member of several milsurp forums and is well above any skullduggery. 100% trustworthy, which is worth something for peace of mind, in and of itself, eh?


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I Dont Care About You said:
Gawwwd, and I thought the ca. $2800 my replica is gonna cost, was a lot of money for an old rifle.
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It's definitely a buy once, cry once bucket-list kind of purchase.... As has been said countless times, you''ve gotta pay to play.... I m just hoping that with its large Inuit and First Nations use, the Lee Enfield's status as a hunting rifle in Canada is secure.
 
So, it turns out that the offer I had for $15K and the potential package for sale are actually one and the same! With no other immediate prospects and nothing close to what I am seeking on the various Auction Sites, I jumped on the "bird in the hand", which is now SPF. Here are some more photos now that we have a deal for $15,000:

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8212-T.jpg



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Was talking to a friend today and he says he has access to a No4 T. No idea what sort of condition or what parts are with it. Even though you have found one, I'll have a look at this one and see what it is. In no way can I afford to play the "all matching No 4 T" game but it would be interesting to see a real one.
 
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