Whats with the 375H&H haters?

[win94luver]

Bought, shot, hunted and sold a M70 in 375 H&H and a Savage Alaskan Brush Hunter in 375 Ruger.

Shot them for a while and even dropped an elk with the Savage.
Can't say I preferred one over the other.

No need to be dragging that kind of weight around on my 70 yr old shoulders these days.
My Alaskan homesteader days where I might have encountered an animal worthy of either of the very huntworthy 375 maggies are long over.

My Ruger 77 MKII All Weather in 300 Win Mag will kill anything I hunt now and doesn't weigh a "ton".

 

[remington jim]

Bought, shot, hunted and sold a M70 in 375 H&H and a Savage Alaskan Brush Hunter in 375 Ruger.

Shot them for a while and even dropped an elk with the Savage.
Can't say I preferred one over the other.

No need to be dragging that kind of weight around on my 70 yr old shoulders these days.
My Alaskan homesteader days where I might have encountered an animal worthy of either of the very huntworthy 375 maggies are long over.

My Ruger 77 MKII All Weather in 300 Win Mag will kill anything I hunt now and doesn't weigh a "ton".

I BET my Rem M700 XCR 11 375 H&H is lighter then the Ruger MK11 300 WMag !

BUT i still agree with YA us OLD Fudds don't need a 375 H&H BUT its got nothing to do with NEEDs ! jmo RJ

 

[win94luver]

I BET my Rem M700 XCR 11 375 H&H is lighter then the Ruger MK11 300 WMag !

BUT i still agree with YA us OLD Fudds don't need a 375 H&H BUT its got nothing to do with NEEDs ! jmo RJ

You keep that ultra light 375 H&H bolt action.
I like the worn, calcified ball joint in my shooting shoulder right where it is in one piece.

 

[Gatehouse]

You don't need to be popular to be the King.

No,but you need something that sets it apart from the others. The 300 WBY sure had that at one time, but not so much anymore.

 

[elker]

The real question is, why do you need a .375 at all?
I have two .366, I believe they can efficiently kill any game animals in North America. If I can re-start, I wouldn't even buy .366, a 30-06 is plenty and enough

 

[win94luver]

No,but you need something that sets it apart from the others. The 300 WBY sure had that at one time, but not so much anymore.

Ever find a box of 300 WBY cartridges on a shelf in Crappy Tire, Walmart or a maw & paw hardware store in Bugtustle, USA or Beaverbutt, Canada?
Well you won't.
But you will likely find a box of 300 Win Mag ammo somewhere in town.
The 300 WBY hasn't got enough more snort than a 300 WM to make any practical distance.
I will choose the generic cartridge each & every time.

 

[barry1974w]

The real question is, why do you need a .375 at all?
I have two .366, I believe they can efficiently kill any game animals in North America. If I can re-start, I wouldn't even buy .366, a 30-06 is plenty and enough

You can efficiently kill any game animal in North America with a 243, but that’s not to say we should all hunt with 243’s. I really like my 375 Ruger, awesome moose medicine.

 

[leveractionjunkie]

Nothing wrong with the H&H at all. I have dies for it I picked up when no sale sports was going under, along with 7mm STW & 257Weatherby. 3 cartridges I’ve always liked and wanted to acquire rifles in. One day maybe I’ll get one of each.

Trouble is not so much with the H&H vs Ruger or any other cartridges. The problem for them lies in the Barnes X, GMX, Nosler E-Tip, Accubond etc. Everytime I start thinking of picking up one of the larger rounds I realize I don’t really need them. Handloading premium bullets like these allows me to use my 280 for anything I’m going to come across, specially since the NDP scuttled our Grizzly hunt. I’d still use it if we get the hunt back.

Obviously there are game animals to which the 375 and others are necessary and will continue to be until we can’t hunt them. And there are people who both shoot the medium and large bores well and some who get to use them as intended. But the vast majority of shooters are better off with less recoil and premium bullets for their hunting. Sales I’m sure show it and I’m pretty sure it’s escaped beyond the man buns into the general shooting public.

 

[SuperCub]

The real question is, why do you need a .375 at all?
I have two .366, I believe they can efficiently kill any game animals in North America. If I can re-start, I wouldn't even buy .366, a 30-06 is plenty and enough

True words.

 

[Boomer]

375 Ruger 101gr H2O case capacity
Cartridge : .375 Ruger
Bullet : .375, 350, Woodleigh RN WeldCore 46B
Useable Case Capaci: 84.696 grain H2O = 5.499 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm

375 H&H 95gr H2O case capacity
Cartridge : .375 H.& H. Mag.
Bullet : .375, 350, Woodleigh RN WeldCore 46B
Useable Case Capaci: 78.252 grain H2O = 5.081 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.600 inch = 91.44 mm

Quick Load calculates the case volume not consumed by the shank of the bullet. This is not the same as the available powder space. A glass bottle neck salt shaker can provide a visual example. If the salt shaker is filled with powder to within say a half inch of the mouth, and a snug wood dowel is pressed into the powder column, powder is not displaced along the shank of the bullet to fill the air space alongside the shank of the "bullet". When a 380 gr Rhino, or for that matter a 350 gr Woodleigh is seated to the magazine length of the Ruger Alaskan in the case of the .375 Ruger, and in the case of the .375 H&H, to the magazine length of the Brno 602/CZ 550, that unusable space in the .375 Ruger is greater than it is in the .375 H&H.

But now a disclaimer . . .
When I tested the 380 gr Rhino in the smaller cartridges, I will admit that because I had published data for the .375 H&H, and not the .375 Ruger, the H&H probably had the advantage. This was a curiosity thing for me. These were borrowed rifles so I had no desire or benefit from working up optimized loads from my limited supply of these expensive, difficult to acquire bullets, other than to see how they compared to the velocity of my .375 Ultra, particularly since all 3 rifles sported 20" barrels. Anyway, the .375 H&H got 2100 while the .375 Ruger barely broke 2000 fps when both cartridges were loaded with 3031. If I had powders that optimized their performance, as I did my .375 Ultra, I'm sure the velocities would have been higher, perhaps significantly higher. My published 380 data for .375 H&H had a velocity of 2250 fps from a 24" barrel and quite probably the Ruger would come very close. My .375 Ultra working load for the 380 gr Rhino from the 20" barrel was 2350 fps.

Anyway, as I've already conceded, the .375 Ruger is a viable cartridge, particularly well suited for North American big game.

 

[Buckmastr]

There are more quality firearms available in 375 H&H compared to 375 Ruger.
It was really an area in cartridges that didn't need a redesign, but Ruger did a good job of it anyways.
I like both, have both, but have only killed with the H&H. Therefore it's better for me.

 

[Boomer]

.308 seems to be more popular these days, especially with new rifle sales. Most people aren't handloaders, and factory 308 and 3006 performance is quite close, so shooting a moose with a 308 and 3006 yields the same results. Plus people who are interested in precision shooting or dynamic shooting that want a 30 caliber are all choosing 308. There isn't much incentive to go 3006 anymore.





For the tiny percentage of people that want to use 380 gr bullets in a 375, a longer action may be desirable. I haven't tried heavier than 350 gr, which was at least on par or higher with an H&H. Really, if a person wants to use heavier bullets than 300 on a regular basis, a 416 is the real solution. Fortunately, Ruger thought of that, too.

.

It wasn't just the Ruger that made the H&H obsolete, it was modern cartridge design.

As you've noted the .308 and the .30/06 perform similarly on game, which is why I used them as my example, since the relationship between them is very similar to the relationship between the .375 H&H and Ruger cartridges, except the Ruger and the H&H are more similar in powder capacity. The reason to choose the .308 over the .30/06 is for similar performance from a smaller, lighter rifle. Similarly, some folks chose the .375 Ruger to benefit from a smaller, lighter rifle than a .375 H&H. Now that rifles less expensive than the Ruger (and inferior to it) are chambered for the .375 Ruger, its difficult to know how many sales are a direct result of the discounted price point. While I agree that new shooters are attracted more to the .308 (and the .300 WSM) I don't now of any .30/06 shooter who would simply shelve their .30/06 in favor of the .308. Jeff Cooper did I guess, but he was profoundly interested in optimizing the carbine concept. I think he was a little perplexed with the number of commercial cartridges that for all intents and purposes did the same thing, while shotgunners could get by quite well with 12 and 20 ga guns, while a few used 16s and 410s. In his world, a 150 at 2700 answered any question that was worthy of asking.

Again you insist the .375 H&H is obsolete, but this is not supported either by ballistics, or the sales of rifles chambered for the .375 H&H around the world. While the .375 Ruger shines for the Alaskan bear hunter, it hasn't caught on to the same degree for slayers of large African and Asiatic game, who are less intrigued with the concept of light handy rifles chambered for powerful cartridges. Perhaps you see the .300 PRC as leading to the obsolescence of the .300 Winchester and the .300 Weatherby. Time will tell, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime, or even yours.

 

[Buckmastr]

375 Ruger rifles are still not short actions. Shorter OALs compared to the 375 H&H, but not short enough for getting you into a group of trim and slim lightweight actions.
And the way the longer 375 H&H feeds should also be considered as a benefit.

 

[Bare]

I just sold my beloved 375. Only reason for it was that my 9.3x62 was lighter and almost did the same thing. Plus I have too many guns and not enough time to shoot and load for all of them

 

[Boomer]

I just sold my beloved 375. Only reason for it was that my 9.3x62 was lighter and almost did the same thing. Plus I have too many guns and not enough time to shoot and load for all of them

You're not the only one to observe that. Finn Aagaard wrote that in the field, the terminal performance of the .375 H&H and the 9.3X62 were indistinguishable.

 

[Gatehouse]

=Boomer;15656293

Again you insist the .375 H&H is obsolete, but this is not supported either by ballistics, or the sales of rifles chambered for the .375 H&H around the world.

The H&H is a rotary phone in a digital world. gets the job done, but is still obsolete by design.

While the .375 Ruger shines for the Alaskan bear hunter, it hasn't caught on to the same degree for slayers of large African and Asiatic game, who are less intrigued with the concept of light handy rifles chambered for powerful cartridges.

Actually, it has, and quite some time ago. 375 Ruger rifle sales have been very brisk in African countries, outpacing H&H rifle sales.

Perhaps you see the .300 PRC as leading to the obsolescence of the .300 Winchester and the .300 Weatherby. Time will tell, but I doubt it will be in my lifetime, or even yours.

The 300 H&H was made obsolete by the new cartridges, there is simply no denying that. The 375 Ruger has made the 375 H&H obsolete for all the same reasons.

Due to the abundance of 308 caliber magnums, the PRC would have a very tough time edging out the 300 WM or 300 WSM. The WBY cartridges certainly don't have the appeal that they once did, it will be interesting to see what happens to WBY in the future. Not too many people are interested in belts and double radius shoulders anymore.

 

[tokguy]

The H&H is a rotary phone in a digital world. gets the job done, but is still obsolete by design.



Actually, it has, and quite some time ago. 375 Ruger rifle sales have been very brisk in African countries, outpacing H&H rifle sales.




The 300 H&H was made obsolete by the new cartridges, there is simply no denying that. The 375 Ruger has made the 375 H&H obsolete for all the same reasons.

Due to the abundance of 308 caliber magnums, the PRC would have a very tough time edging out the 300 WM or 300 WSM. The WBY cartridges certainly don't have the appeal that they once did, it will be interesting to see what happens to WBY in the future. Not too many people are interested in belts and double radius shoulders anymore.

OK; can you point out where the 375 H & H touched you...and how it made you feel bad and why?
I sure hope it's just goofing and trolling that drives your disdain for the H & H...acknowledging I'm that I'm goofing & trolling right now of course.
You are like a disheveled guy ranting on it...it's always entertaining to log in and see what you have brought to the table in any 375 discussion.
Just my opinion of course...continue as you will

 

[Gatehouse]

OK; can you point out where the 375 H & H touched you...and how it made you feel bad and why?
I sure hope it's just goofing and trolling that drives your disdain for the H & H...acknowledging I'm that I'm goofing & trolling right now of course.
You are like a disheveled guy ranting on it...it's always entertaining to log in and see what you have brought to the table in any 375 discussion.
Just my opinion of course...continue as you will

Things go obsolete all the time, it's doesn't mean that people hate them. Lots of people adore obsolete items and collect them. I hear some people are even really into 8 track cassettes.

 

[FLHTCUI]

OK; can you point out where the 375 H & H touched you...and how it made you feel bad and why?
I sure hope it's just goofing and trolling that drives your disdain for the H & H...acknowledging I'm that I'm goofing & trolling right now of course.
You are like a disheveled guy ranting on it...it's always entertaining to log in and see what you have brought to the table in any 375 discussion.
Just my opinion of course...continue as you will

Well, there is the problem.
He hasnt been touched in his special place for a very long time and feels diminishing the history and importance of the H&H makes him feel more better.
#375H&H
FLHTCUI

 

[Boomer]

Old isn't always obsolete and new isn't always better. I fail to see how a .375 H&H is analogous to either a rotary phone or an 8 track tape since it performs as well as the newer cartridges that were intended to supplant it, and sales reflect that reality. I doubt you could give away a rotary phone or an 8 track, never mind sell them for profit. The reason for the success of the .375 Ruger comes more from the technology that allows rifles to be made cheaply than it does from cartridge design alone, although the design is very good. The 9.3X62 is another example of an old design that survives because its too good to be declared obsolete. A 9.3X62 rifle can be lighter and handier than a .375 Ruger, and carries more rounds in the magazine, yet in the field, it produces similar observable terminal ballistic performance on game. The 9.3X62 predates the .375 H&H by 3 years, and like the .375 H&H is still going strong. Only time will tell if the .375 Ruger will still be with us a century from now. Out of curiosity, how many manufactures are there of .375 Ruger ammo? Hornady and Swift are the ones I know about, Now, how many manufacturers are there of .375 H&H ammo?