When did folks become such recoil wimps?
- Thread starter Jim870
- Start date
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Lots of guys do most of their shooting from a bench. Next to prone, that probably beats you up the worst. "Back in the day" we used to "stand on our hind legs and shoot like a man" to quote an old magazine article, I think it may have been Elmer Kieth.
Today we also do much of our hunting parked on our butts in stands, and that pretty much equates to bench rest for felt recoil.
Times have changed, lots of guys can't go out the door and wander for hours in the woods. They have to hunt small patches of land and thus use blinds, or stands all from seated, or they just choose to hunt that way.
The standing position allows less felt recoil. Much harder to master of course.
Today we also do much of our hunting parked on our butts in stands, and that pretty much equates to bench rest for felt recoil.
Times have changed, lots of guys can't go out the door and wander for hours in the woods. They have to hunt small patches of land and thus use blinds, or stands all from seated, or they just choose to hunt that way.
The standing position allows less felt recoil. Much harder to master of course.
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Some very good points here, chiefly lighter rifles and shooting more.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here though is our expectation of accuracy.
20-30 years ago, not many folks knew what “MOA” was. “Pie plate at 100 yards” was the more typical measure of sufficient accuracy.
But with better optics and more ergonomic rifles, came the opportunity to drastically improve “Joe Shooter’s” abilities, and the race for sub-moa was on. It didn’t take folks long to realize that lighter recoiling rifles could help them stack holes on top of each other (less chance of flinching, less fatigue, cheaper to practice, etc.) Eventually, they became the new normal.
"Wimp?" I guess my dad, who taught me to shoot in the early '70s and all his friends must have been "wimps", and I never knew it. They were all lifelong hunters, Depression & country raised in rural BC, and nobody owned anything heavier than a 30.06, or .308. They didn't need it. Magnum calibers were for rich Americans passing through. If you hunted deer with a 30.30 or .303 in Grizzly country, as many did, it was assumed that you knew what you were doing. None of these guys used, needed, or wanted a scope. Muzzle brakes and bipods hadn't been invented yet. And probably would've been considered wimpy, although the word wasn't in use then (city slicker, they might have said).
A quote from Elmer Keith . . . "Anyone who says the 44 Magnum kicks is just plain sissy" . . . captioned below a picture of him with a handgun in each hand.
The description of Rifle Metallic Silhouette shooting was "Standing on your hind legs and shooting like a Man".
MOA was replaced with Minute of Moose, Minute of Deer and Minute of Bear.
The description of Rifle Metallic Silhouette shooting was "Standing on your hind legs and shooting like a Man".
MOA was replaced with Minute of Moose, Minute of Deer and Minute of Bear.
I became a wimp after a scope kiss from a 338 win mag. Now all my shooting is 7mm rem and lesser. Oh I shoot 2 boxes per year, a couple to sight in if new or new scope, a few to check already mounted scopes I save 10 for hunting and the rest are just for fun
This is the correct answer, IMHO.
I would agree with the bench shooting being the issue. I find it worse than prone.
billbmcleod
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Back very close to Bruce County
I am not that big of a guy and after 60 I definitely not as solid. I used to have a range on my farm and I would shoot quite a bit. If I used my 30-06 I was wasting ammunition after the fourth shot as I would flinch and I knew it. I bought a 7 mm-08 and I could shoot 20 rounds with no problem. Someone suggested I but a good recoil pad on the '06 and that helped a lot and I wondered why I had not done it 30 years before. Even though the '06 is better I still prefer the 7 mm-08 as I know I won't be flinching.
We used to host "Hunting Rifle" matches where you were supposed to use your hunting ammo. We shot out to 200m on targets with an 8" bull from the off hand, sitting/kneeling, prone positions, 20 rds total.
I often won with my .308 and occasionally with my Garand (which took the biggest 6 pt Mule Deer I've ever shot) and my wife won more than once with with her .243. This PO'd the big boys with their .300's/.338s so they upped the minimum calibre to .25, but didn't give enough advance notice so my wife was allowed to shoot her .243 again - and won.
The minimum calibre was then upped to 6.5 and I won yet again with my .308. The match eventually died for lack of interest.
What I observed is that the guys who use the .300's/.338's are great when shooting half a dozen shots from the bench using a 'Lead Sled'; not so good when shooting from field positions. They were intimidated by their own rifles. It's called a "FLINCH". You might have heard of the term .... ;>)
One of the problems I often observe with those shooting off a bench is they are sitting too high in
relation to the bench. This puts them in a "slumped forward" position, which really amplifies the felt
recoil of a heavy hitter. [It also makes it easier to get a "Weatherby" eye, lol]
By sitting lower, thus more upright, one can give with the recoil, thus mitigating it's effect on the shooter.
Recoil in this latter seated position makes felt recoil not that much different from standing. Dave.
relation to the bench. This puts them in a "slumped forward" position, which really amplifies the felt
recoil of a heavy hitter. [It also makes it easier to get a "Weatherby" eye, lol]
By sitting lower, thus more upright, one can give with the recoil, thus mitigating it's effect on the shooter.
Recoil in this latter seated position makes felt recoil not that much different from standing. Dave.
Position shooting (off hand, sitting, prone) is a long lost art, particularly off hand shooting as done in the days of the Germanic Shuetzen rifle where records were set that still remain unbroken. And that was done with BP and/or duplex loads.
People are more interested in putting bullets into one hole by any means possible, using whatever enables them to do better. They just want to trip the trigger and see what happens.
Truth is - most guys I know are not capable of shooting prone. They might get down, but they'd need help to get back up!
People are more interested in putting bullets into one hole by any means possible, using whatever enables them to do better. They just want to trip the trigger and see what happens.
Truth is - most guys I know are not capable of shooting prone. They might get down, but they'd need help to get back up!
I'm a huge practitioner of 100 yards Offhand. That's how I hunt, why would I practice differently?
This season it is the seaon of 8 x 57. Thanks for the Swede MG ammo Marst...urp, cough, cough...sorry, puked a little there...Marstar! There, I said it!
Got a Post WW1 purpose built sportered K98 with a slim profile bbl, knife handle bolt, Lyman 57 peep & double set triggers. That is the bush flogger.
A decent WW1 scrubbed K98 ( Danzig made) with 3/4 length OEM laminate stock and a Kahles 2.5 - 7 on a Mauser SSR. That's the prairie gun.
And a Sportered Hakim, and it's...well...it's just plain fun. Turn the Gas valve off...now it's a straight pull.
The recoil thing is likely from about when the US shelved the M14 for the 'Poodle Shooter'... that's my thoughts
This season it is the seaon of 8 x 57. Thanks for the Swede MG ammo Marst...urp, cough, cough...sorry, puked a little there...Marstar! There, I said it!
Got a Post WW1 purpose built sportered K98 with a slim profile bbl, knife handle bolt, Lyman 57 peep & double set triggers. That is the bush flogger.
A decent WW1 scrubbed K98 ( Danzig made) with 3/4 length OEM laminate stock and a Kahles 2.5 - 7 on a Mauser SSR. That's the prairie gun.
And a Sportered Hakim, and it's...well...it's just plain fun. Turn the Gas valve off...now it's a straight pull.
The recoil thing is likely from about when the US shelved the M14 for the 'Poodle Shooter'... that's my thoughts
Could not agree more.
I've seen shooters who have to "crawl" up the stock to get a decent sight picture with cheap or improperly installed scopes.
Even the lowly .243 makes them possible victims of 'Weatherby eyebrow".
Install a decent lower powered optic that gives a natural sight picture when mounting the rifle and it becomes as easy as shooting clays with a 12 gauge.
Also agree with what others have said regarding benchrest or prone shooting.
I honestly have never noticed recoil when shooting 416 or 458 at big game while standing and able to roll with the punch.
Accuracy expectations.
50 years ago if you could hit a milk jug at 100yds, your rifle was good to go hunting. These days, if you can't shoot the wings off a fly at 200 then your rifle is worthless. Lighter recoiling guns aren't inherently more accurate, but they're a lot easier to shoot well, especially if you're trying for tiny multi shot groups not just to land a hit on a pie plate.
I know a guy who missed 3 shots with his 300wm on a deer. The rifle is accurate (I've shot it, it's sub moa in the right hands) but he can't shoot it worth a damn. A lower recoiling rifle would be of great service to him (and the game he points it at).
50 years ago if you could hit a milk jug at 100yds, your rifle was good to go hunting. These days, if you can't shoot the wings off a fly at 200 then your rifle is worthless. Lighter recoiling guns aren't inherently more accurate, but they're a lot easier to shoot well, especially if you're trying for tiny multi shot groups not just to land a hit on a pie plate.
I know a guy who missed 3 shots with his 300wm on a deer. The rifle is accurate (I've shot it, it's sub moa in the right hands) but he can't shoot it worth a damn. A lower recoiling rifle would be of great service to him (and the game he points it at).
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