Why are there no .40 carbines for sale?

[thegazelle]

They exist, they just tend to be lever action rather than semi auto. Most cheaper pccs are blowback actions, and spicy 357 is a lot for a blowback action. The Winchester model 1907 is a blowback that shot the 351WSL cartridge, 180gr@1870fps, which is quite close to spicy 357mag in a rifle barrel. According to C&Rsenal on youtube the breech block on that gun weighs over 2lb!

I remember reading on CGN or elsewhere about a lever action PCC in 9mm...Tomestone maybe or whatever it's called?

That is nuts about that 2lb breech block. Thanks for the info - I'll have to look into that.

I could have sworn Kriss Vector had a .40 model. I bought mine in 9mm (since sold) but recall seeing it in other calibers. 45ACP for sure but maybe .40, I don't remember. Haven't seen a new .40 semi auto carbine offering for a while. Would be curious of the Gen3 Sub2000s have a .40 option.

Given handguns are off the table it would be nice to have something that can shoot off the thousands of rounds of .40 that I still have from the Sub2K days. I probably should have bundled more of it with the gun when I sold it.

 

[Bartok5]

I have the FAMAE SAF in .40 S&W, which comes with excellent, robust metal magazines instead of the 9mm Plastic mags that break and split down the spine. No more perceived recoil than the 9mm chambering, but boy howdy does it ever ring the steel at 50m!! I sure's to heck wouldn't want to be standing at the wrong end of the little SOB. It hits HARD!

 

[Babs0404]

Same, I have a ton of m&p40 mags and would love a FPC in 40

FYI your mags will work fine in the FPC. In fact, you fit 11 rounds of 9 in a 40 mag

Just sayin

 

[Suther]

I remember reading on CGN or elsewhere about a lever action PCC in 9mm...Tomestone maybe or whatever it's called?

That is nuts about that 2lb breech block. Thanks for the info - I'll have to look into that.

I could have sworn Kriss Vector had a .40 model. I bought mine in 9mm (since sold) but recall seeing it in other calibers. 45ACP for sure but maybe .40, I don't remember. Haven't seen a new .40 semi auto carbine offering for a while. Would be curious of the Gen3 Sub2000s have a .40 option.

Given handguns are off the table it would be nice to have something that can shoot off the thousands of rounds of .40 that I still have from the Sub2K days. I probably should have bundled more of it with the gun when I sold it.

Yeah tombstone sounds right. It's like $2500 and uses mags from a semi auto so they gotta be pinned IIRC. Can't imagine too many selling when a tube mag 357 holds more rounds at half the price lol

I wonder if anyone can get the 40sw caliber conversion kits for TNW ASRs these days, been seeing a lot of them for reasonable prices in the last few months in 9mm. They're only $230usd on TNWs website.

 

[TechNeck]

Any updates on current or future PCC in .40S&W

Future ones are moot... c21 has put a stop to their import or design and manufacture inside canada. What we have on the market now is what we get.
Unless a new chambering can be put under an exsistenting FTR entry

 

[Butcherbill]

.40S&W falls in between the 9mm and 10mm options, which if I had to pick a ppc with more power than 9mm I’d take the 10mm over it’s weaker brother .40S&W any day.

Could you not just shoot .40 out of a 10mm ppc like in a pistol, it’s just a shorter case otherwise dimension’s are the same.

 

[alpining]

...The Winchester model 1907 is a blowback that shot the 351WSL cartridge, 180gr@1870fps, which is quite close to spicy 357mag in a rifle barrel. According to C&Rsenal on youtube the breech block on that gun weighs over 2lb!

I'd be interested to see the bolt/buffer from that new Ruger 45ACP carbine on the scale - It looks chonky!

 

[alpining]

...Could you not just shoot .40 out of a 10mm ppc like in a pistol, it’s just a shorter case otherwise dimension’s are the same.

If you think headspacing on the extractor is a good thing, then sure.

Plus, the reciprocating mass for a 10mm straight blowback firearm should be significantly heavier. It will likely fail to cycle reliably with the 40 Short & Weak.

 

[Butcherbill]

If you think headspacing on the extractor is a good thing, then sure.

Plus, the reciprocating mass for a 10mm straight blowback firearm should be significantly heavier. It will likely fail to cycle reliably with the 40 Short & Weak.

Works in pistols with plenty of real world proof, extractor wear and tear isn’t that big of an issue from what I can tell.

The bolt mass could be an issue though as you say, personally I don’t see the need for a .40 ppc when the 9mm or 10mm is already there. But I like 10mm enough that I .40 doesn’t really have much appeal to me, to each their own though.

 

[enefgee]

Future ones are moot... c21 has put a stop to their import or design and manufacture inside canada. What we have on the market now is what we get.
Unless a new chambering can be put under an exsistenting FTR entry

Um, No. The FTR first entry is a "parent entry" variations including calibre are listed below each parent issue. C21 hasn't been around long enough that we know how it will affect us. For example, the AK was banned way back. The Valmet M78 was not. Why? Who knows. The explanation that I've heard has no proof that I've ever seen to back it up, and honestly doesn't pass the sniff test. That's the thing about the Firearms Act. There is so much that is poorly written, confused, or left to regulatory interpretation, that it takes a while to make sense of how they're interpreting things. Also, being a bit optimistic, in a couple of years this will be in the rear view mirror, along with Trudeau and the Liberal Party of Canada.

 

[thegazelle]

Yeah tombstone sounds right. It's like $2500 and uses mags from a semi auto so they gotta be pinned IIRC. Can't imagine too many selling when a tube mag 357 holds more rounds at half the price lol

I wonder if anyone can get the 40sw caliber conversion kits for TNW ASRs these days, been seeing a lot of them for reasonable prices in the last few months in 9mm. They're only $230usd on TNWs website.

$2500...whoa, that's more than my old overpriced Kriss Vector...

It is interesting...I had a TNW ASR as well...and was thinking about a conversion kit way back when but for some reason I just never grew fond of the gun. Ended up selling it a few years back.

 

[Canuck44]

I have two 40's. One Tanfanglio complete slide/barrel that fits on my Tanfoglio 9MM and a M&P. I decided to put the 40 M&P into my Kidon Kit for IPSC PCC Division. Should be fun and I then can justify loading for the 40. I seldom mount the 40 onto the Tanfanglio frame. My original thought was to use the 40 top end in IPSC Standard Division. I only shoot club shoots now in IPSC so I rarely make the switch.

As to why no PCC's in 40? Most of the reasons have been covered. Another is the 40 cal is pretty much an orphan in competition sports. Standard Division in PCC I guess might be the only area I see the gun being used. IPSC and to a lessor extent IDPA shooters likely account for the largest segment of civilian consumption of 9MM ammunition in Canada. PCC's have gained a new huge market or demand for pistol caliber carbines and the 9MM rules in both IPSC and IDPA PCC Divisions. In addition, in Canada with the OIC ending the use of AR platform carbines I suspect versions of 2 Gun Competitions using 9MM carbines and 9MM pistol combinations have and will expand across Canada driven by the cost of ammunition either new or reloaded.

I shoot the 40 for practice using my Ruger GP-100 in 10MM. I have less 10MM brass and a boatload of 40 cal and my cast bullets can be used in both calibers.

I would not hold my breath for many new semi auto 40 cal carbines and even less for lever guns in 40 cal. No demand!

Take Care

Bob

 

[Non-phixion]

I have the FAMAE SAF in .40 S&W, which comes with excellent, robust metal magazines instead of the 9mm Plastic mags that break and split down the spine. No more perceived recoil than the 9mm chambering, but boy howdy does it ever ring the steel at 50m!! I sure's to heck wouldn't want to be standing at the wrong end of the little SOB. It hits HARD!

This little unit in 40 would make me want to act up. Very nice gun, i've had alot of trigger time behind the 9mm SAF's but never a 40. The fact it has metal magazines and shoots 40 makes it even more appealing.
The 9mm mags do not stand the test of time, the feed lips get chewed up and like you said they end up cracking down the middle. I bet that gun cranks steel plates like nobodys business.

 

[alpining]

Works in pistols with plenty of real world proof ...

Using 40S&W ammunition in 10mm pistols: Yes, the internet says "It works" in plenty of Glock 10mm pistols. But Glocks are special. Most other pistols (and as far as I know all PCCs) are not similarly special. Even with the Glock there is no free lunch: Depending on your ammunition, chamber fouling can be a problem when switching back to 10mm. And it surely does reduce both reliability and accuracy (though probably not enough for casual shooters to worry about).

Anyone thinking of doing this should be aware of the potential issues and understand what they're getting in to. While I don't agree with everything in it, I think this article has a reasonable representation of the details: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/40-in-a-10mm-glock/

 

[alpining]

...I would not hold my breath for many new semi auto 40 cal carbines and even less for lever guns in 40 cal. No demand!..

Agreed, certainly for now and probably forever. It's hard to imagine a future where there is sufficient demand for a 40S&W carbine to see new offerings. The two mainstream ones that I can think of have been discontinued (Ruger, KelTec), and that doesn't happen by accident.

But you never know, it's not impossible that some weird unintended consequence of some future law means that we get PCCs in 40 again.

 

[Canuck44]

I use 40 in my 10MM Ruger GP100 as mentioned earlier. Note I use
.040 wide clips for 40and .032 clips for 10MM. If I use .032.clips in 40cal brass I get misfires. The case groves are different enough to cause issues in my revolver.

Take Care

Bob

 

[TechNeck]

Um, No. The FTR first entry is a "parent entry" variations including calibre are listed below each parent issue. C21 hasn't been around long enough that we know how it will affect us. For example, the AK was banned way back. The Valmet M78 was not. Why? Who knows. The explanation that I've heard has no proof that I've ever seen to back it up, and honestly doesn't pass the sniff test. That's the thing about the Firearms Act. There is so much that is poorly written, confused, or left to regulatory interpretation, that it takes a while to make sense of how they're interpreting things. Also, being a bit optimistic, in a couple of years this will be in the rear view mirror, along with Trudeau and the Liberal Party of Canada.

When the provisions of c21 come into effect... there will be no import of of new semi auto designs or allowed manufactuing of them inside canada. Its clear as day how its written... hell even having paper designs that can be entered into a cnc machine of 3d printer is now an offensce.
When i said put under an existing ftr number... i ment exactly as you just described... aka a caliber variant. But a lot of these new models are strikingly different enough in both looks, but reciever and bolt design to accomodate beefier cartridges from the parent 9mm rifles. On top of that the company is often naming them a difrent name then the smaller version... As such, the rcmp lab might assign them a stand alone ftr... which effectivly bans them.

 

[quinnbrian]

I think, Just Right Carbine offer there rifles in 9mm-40cal and 10mm, and I think they sold/sell kits to convert one caliber to another on any of there platforms...just an option...is there a reason people don't like the old JR anymore?..one of the first..one of the only ones made of metal and aluminum...not mostly plastic..like the rest of them...so many plastic guns..how long do they last? I guess these days and age, it doesn't matter..people change rifles, like underwear...lol
Cheers
B

 

[enefgee]

When the provisions of c21 come into effect... there will be no import of of new semi auto designs or allowed manufactuing of them inside canada. Its clear as day how its written... hell even having paper designs that can be entered into a cnc machine of 3d printer is now an offensce.
When i said put under an existing ftr number... i ment exactly as you just described... aka a caliber variant. But a lot of these new models are strikingly different enough in both looks, but reciever and bolt design to accomodate beefier cartridges from the parent 9mm rifles. On top of that the company is often naming them a difrent name then the smaller version... As such, the rcmp lab might assign them a stand alone ftr... which effectivly bans them.

Nothing in the Firearms act is "Clear as Day", it's all subject to interpretation. This is my third wave of 'Sweeping Bans' as the media like to say, over the last 40 years, and not one of those has been 'clear as day'.

 

[Suther]

When the provisions of c21 come into effect... there will be no import of of new semi auto designs or allowed manufactuing of them inside canada. Its clear as day how its written... hell even having paper designs that can be entered into a cnc machine of 3d printer is now an offensce.
When i said put under an existing ftr number... i ment exactly as you just described... aka a caliber variant. But a lot of these new models are strikingly different enough in both looks, but reciever and bolt design to accomodate beefier cartridges from the parent 9mm rifles. On top of that the company is often naming them a difrent name then the smaller version... As such, the rcmp lab might assign them a stand alone ftr... which effectivly bans them.

When the provisions come into effect?

The new Prohib definition came into effect when c21 passed, Dec 15 2023. If you don't believe me go check the Criminal code, section 84, for the definition of prohibited firearm.