To purchase prime real-estate is the exception and not the norm. If I had a few million, it would go towards urban real-estate and not remote rural, that's if the objective is for monetary gain. I as well would love to hunt Alaska/Yukon moose however, prices are insane. It's unfortunate that the commoner cannot save afew thousand and go on a dream hunt. I guess that they will have to lower their expectations for a Canadian hunt and go to Africa, or a less costly adventure in Canada.
Why do Canadian guided hunts costs so damn much compared to international hunts?
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
To purchase prime real-estate is the exception and not the norm. If I had a few million, it would go towards urban real-estate and not remote rural, that's if the objective is for monetary gain. I as well would love to hunt Alaska/Yukon moose however, prices are insane. It's unfortunate that the commoner cannot save afew thousand and go on a dream hunt. I guess that they will have to lower their expectations for a Canadian hunt and go to Africa, or a less costly adventure in Canada.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Fair reply, it’s often not understood how much the outfitters are laying out to be able to offer the hunts. Nobody gets into that business to become wealthy, there’s far smarter uses of the money. But it’s an interesting life.
It’s the norm to have to own the territory or lease rights for all the BC and Yukon stuff, NWT too in the non-first nations run operations. That’s essentially all the sheep, all the Grizzlies, all the mountain caribou, all the mountain goats, etc. It’s the framework outfitters have to work within, you have to buy it or lease access, both are extraordinarily expensive and can’t be done on the cheap. Naturally that has to affect hunt costs.
One way or another whether it’s tag auctions or exclusive tenures and allocations, it’s going to be expensive to hunt the rare and desirable things only available in the mountains. As for Africa, compare BUMs wild Buffalo hunt, a Bongo in the Congo, or wild Tanzania. All are $30,000 all up or much more. You can’t fairly compare a hunt farm in South Africa or Namibia to BC or the Yukon, it’s unfair as nearly all those South African hunts are game farms of one dimension or another, not million acre wild territories with government dictated quotas.
That’s no knock on the farms, they have their place and raise game instead of cattle or corn, I’m all for it. You can do a cheap hunt for things on Texas, Manitoba ranches and so forth too, but those aren’t the same deal as a Canadian Grizzly, Muskox, Sheep, Mountain Goat etc hunt in 5000+ sq kms of mountains without roads. That experience unfortunately, has costs, and a very finite supply of trophy animals.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Hunt farms in Manitoba have been outlawed for a good number of years. I believe Quebec and SK are the last allowing them for certain species.
I don't disagree with your comments on sheep, goat, etc, but there's really no plausible reason why a BC black bear hunt costs double of one in MB or SK. There's actually a lot less overhead in driving trucks down logging roads than there is in baiting. So in this instance, you're paying extra just for the fact it's in BC. Rocky Mountain scenery tax.
Not to argue but I was told by someone involved in game management and treaty considerations and a neighbor and long time associate of the family that owns Tuki that they had 50 moose allocations a year. Perhaps the numbers are over several territories in region 6 as they own and operate more than one territory. I'm not raising pitchforks either, just relaying info from very close to the source and from bumping into and conversing with other hunters from the area who mentioned pretty much the same numbers. The Tuki guys reachd out to my friend while I was hunting the area around the landing to find out which areas I would be focussing on LOL They were truck hunting the closest clear cuts to the landing so I went and stayed up the lake and solo hunted where only my quad and legs could take me. Came close that last trip and had more fun on my own than I've had in a while.
Sux it's LEH only now...... or pay the guys at Tuki Lodge LOL
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Fair point on MB game hunt farms, didn’t know they were done. The BC black bear outfit prices are pretty low unless after coastal bruisers and those trips nearly always combine fishing. It’s usually a filler hunt to keep a crew year round busy. The difference with BC is even to guide just black bears you have to buy an entire tenure, usually 1000sq kms plus, plus improvements. There is no way to guide on a small plot here, so it’s just plain old economics. Mentioned before if I was to do it again, I’d likely do it that way outside of BC, as it’s simpler and less financially risky. Would be a good life.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I'm admittedly not versed on what's required to get an allocation of area and licenses in BC, so that may very well be the reason. It may also be the reason hunts for animals like cougar and Shiras moose are nearly double of what they are in the US counterpart states.
The one thing I also have trouble comprehending is how an antelope hunt in AB is almost double that of one in the US.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I can guarantee you anyone asking that price for a hunt for free range whitetail or black bear has not received a single booking.
The reason why Canadian guided hunts cost considerably more than international guided hunts comes down primarily to two factors. Private land vs public and Climate.
1) International hunts are usually on privately owned land or ranches, whereas Canadian hunts are usually on Crown land which is not privately owned. This is a significant factor because an outfitter who owns a large enough ranch, often tens of thousand of acres, can fence off the area, create a perfect mix of habitat, improve conditions for wild(?) game, control harvest of species and thus more closely manage the land for production of wildlife or game. They may also stock species that are more desirable to hunt, may command higher prices, and also survive more successfully under such conditions that the game preserve offers. In other words they can produce game to meet the demand of hunters better, and this can bring prices down.
In contrast, the Canadian government has little to no involvement in the direct management of wildlife beyond issuing tags and enforcing game regulations. In Canada tags are cheap and hunting regulations liberal. This makes it very difficult to manage wildlife for high quality without negatively affecting quantity.
In Canada, wildlife is essentially a free-for-all and it must compete with all other uses of the land at the same time. Mainly forestry, mining, agriculture and recreational development. Take for example snow geese. There is no limit on these birds and has been like this for 20 years. Manitoba sells a mule deer tag now for $5. Is this all a deer is worth?
All these other uses allow one to own the resource or asset and sell it. In Canada you cannot own wildlife however you may still own a hunting ranch in a very limited capacity However game preserves or hunt farms, call them what you like, are very heavily regulated and this has the effect of making it expensive to hunt. Although this is very expensive and generally not viable like it is internationally, even if you owned a hunt ranch in Canada you would not be able to control the weather. This brings me to my second point.
2) Climate. Canada has an incredibly harsh climate with winters that can easily kill 50% of a species population during a bad year. Canada has many ecotypes from boreal forest and mountains to plains and tundra. Species sought after by big game hunters are far fewer and population densities are generally lower. Animals in Canada are highly adapted to survive in their habitat.
The example you used of Big horn sheep hunt costing over $100,000 serves as good example of scarcity. Big horns are found in a small area geographically speaking, and trophy big horn are even scarcer. The scarcer the trophy the higher the price. Caribou for example live mostly in the tundra except of course the woodland caribou which is nearly extinct. Pronghorn antelope live on the plains and no where else. So if you want to find caribou you have to travel to the tundra and if you want to find pronghorn you travel to the plains.
In areas of the world that do not have such a harsh climate and differing ecological areas species are much more plentiful and less specialized to survive the varying changes in climate and foliage. These species that live in more favorable climates will have higher survival rates and thus can be bred much faster. Couple this with living in captivity so to speak, even if captivity is 20,000 or 30,000 acres or more, you have the ability to produce exponentially more big game than anything that can possibly be produced in Canada.
Hope this helps answer your question.
1) International hunts are usually on privately owned land or ranches, whereas Canadian hunts are usually on Crown land which is not privately owned. This is a significant factor because an outfitter who owns a large enough ranch, often tens of thousand of acres, can fence off the area, create a perfect mix of habitat, improve conditions for wild(?) game, control harvest of species and thus more closely manage the land for production of wildlife or game. They may also stock species that are more desirable to hunt, may command higher prices, and also survive more successfully under such conditions that the game preserve offers. In other words they can produce game to meet the demand of hunters better, and this can bring prices down.
In contrast, the Canadian government has little to no involvement in the direct management of wildlife beyond issuing tags and enforcing game regulations. In Canada tags are cheap and hunting regulations liberal. This makes it very difficult to manage wildlife for high quality without negatively affecting quantity.
In Canada, wildlife is essentially a free-for-all and it must compete with all other uses of the land at the same time. Mainly forestry, mining, agriculture and recreational development. Take for example snow geese. There is no limit on these birds and has been like this for 20 years. Manitoba sells a mule deer tag now for $5. Is this all a deer is worth?
All these other uses allow one to own the resource or asset and sell it. In Canada you cannot own wildlife however you may still own a hunting ranch in a very limited capacity However game preserves or hunt farms, call them what you like, are very heavily regulated and this has the effect of making it expensive to hunt. Although this is very expensive and generally not viable like it is internationally, even if you owned a hunt ranch in Canada you would not be able to control the weather. This brings me to my second point.
2) Climate. Canada has an incredibly harsh climate with winters that can easily kill 50% of a species population during a bad year. Canada has many ecotypes from boreal forest and mountains to plains and tundra. Species sought after by big game hunters are far fewer and population densities are generally lower. Animals in Canada are highly adapted to survive in their habitat.
The example you used of Big horn sheep hunt costing over $100,000 serves as good example of scarcity. Big horns are found in a small area geographically speaking, and trophy big horn are even scarcer. The scarcer the trophy the higher the price. Caribou for example live mostly in the tundra except of course the woodland caribou which is nearly extinct. Pronghorn antelope live on the plains and no where else. So if you want to find caribou you have to travel to the tundra and if you want to find pronghorn you travel to the plains.
In areas of the world that do not have such a harsh climate and differing ecological areas species are much more plentiful and less specialized to survive the varying changes in climate and foliage. These species that live in more favorable climates will have higher survival rates and thus can be bred much faster. Couple this with living in captivity so to speak, even if captivity is 20,000 or 30,000 acres or more, you have the ability to produce exponentially more big game than anything that can possibly be produced in Canada.
Hope this helps answer your question.
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I killed a few elk in the Rocky Mountains and they were quite memorable hunts, (DIY) only a 10 minute ride from my house. Damn hard work packing them out however, I was a young man then, today I couldn't do it, except with a packhorse.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Bighorn sheep are the most numerous of wild sheep in NA.
There is and always has been a limit on snow geese.
Manitoba has a very low number of mule deer in a small area of the province, but they've been found to have a very high infection rate of CWD, hence the reason for the low license fee.
In my opinion, the Elk is a superior Game Animal to either the Sheep or Grizzly.
I don't even know the word to describe what has happened to Sheep and their value as a Status Symbol and Grizzlies are more of a Pest.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I understand what you’re saying on sheep, though I edited to not be so hard on some people’s dreams.
American clients wonder why I don’t hunt stone sheep every year, it blows their minds when I have the old floatplane to do it on a whim and can get a tag. All up the 60-100k hunt to them, costs me $2000. To me it’s just an animal I only want to hunt once in my life and even that’s not necessary, to them it’s a symbol of achievement and the personal fulfillment of a narrative built on a century of hunting stories in US hunting rags. In short, thinhorn sheep in particular have become a mythological creature.
For those hooked on sheep hunting, I’m not belittling your sport. I’m into all sorts of obscure things you’d find bizarre, for those sheep are their passion cool. I find it bizarre when a guy from Texas venerates a far away species, and wears a Less Than 1 club shirt planning a significant portion of his life around killing an animal he’s never seen.
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