- Location
- Gangcouver, BC
This is the way I look at it:
Celebrate the best
pistol a Canadian can own
Sold my 92 FS and bought this! Great pistol, my favourite!!
Why is Beretta so bad?
- Thread starter RCPerkins
- Start date
Sold my 92 FS and bought this! Great pistol, my favourite!!
I think it's a handsome pistol, I grew up watching Hong Kong action flicks where the 92 series were prominent, I can't knock it for its style. However, the way my shooting tastes have developed have led me to dislike the actual use and operation of the firearm. I personally think it's too big and bulky for what it is (despite being a huge fan of Ruger Mark II and III pistols [/hypocrisy]) but I have a particular disdain for DA/SA triggers and slide mounted safeties, but that's just me. At the end of the day, let's just:
no Sig...shame
no Walther....double shame
- Location
- your wife knows...
The reasons that I've heard, but haven't verified as I just don't like the 92 much:
-Big and heavy. Hard to conceal, just more weight on the belt or LBE (pistol are really only meant for SHTF in the military, no-one is actually supposed to fight with one)
-DA trigger. As mentioned in another post(s) the DA/SA is out of favour.
-The design allows more sand and dust in than it can handle.
-The biggest problem the US military is having with the M9 - 9mm FMJ. If you need someone to stop what they're doing AND they're within pistol range you need them to stop real fast. With FMJ the 9mm is not making it happen. If the military could use good JHP the story would be different, but FMJ doesn't get the results needed. And since the 92/M9 became popular because the military adopted it now that individual troops are moving away from the gun it's civilian/police popularity is in decline. While the military it's self is still using the pistol as general issue, the special forces get .45s and reports that the military has decided that it's next pistol WILL NOT be 9mm, causes everyone else to give the 9mm the stink-eye, even although 9mm FMJ and JHP is apples and oranges.
-Big and heavy. Hard to conceal, just more weight on the belt or LBE (pistol are really only meant for SHTF in the military, no-one is actually supposed to fight with one)
-DA trigger. As mentioned in another post(s) the DA/SA is out of favour.
-The design allows more sand and dust in than it can handle.
-The biggest problem the US military is having with the M9 - 9mm FMJ. If you need someone to stop what they're doing AND they're within pistol range you need them to stop real fast. With FMJ the 9mm is not making it happen. If the military could use good JHP the story would be different, but FMJ doesn't get the results needed. And since the 92/M9 became popular because the military adopted it now that individual troops are moving away from the gun it's civilian/police popularity is in decline. While the military it's self is still using the pistol as general issue, the special forces get .45s and reports that the military has decided that it's next pistol WILL NOT be 9mm, causes everyone else to give the 9mm the stink-eye, even although 9mm FMJ and JHP is apples and oranges.
The 92's are big guns but very reliable, super smooth and very accurate. Only thing I dont' like about them nowadays are the slanted dustcover, plastic parts, and a more utilitarian finish than the dark satin black finish they used to use in the 80's.
- Location
- Lower Mainland BC
edited
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lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Heavy? It is significantly lighter than the CZ SP01 Shadow (steel slide / steel frame) and comparable to most steel slide / alloy framed pistols.
DA/SA is out of favour? Unlike the CZ SP01 Shadow? Unlike the Sig P226, unlike... well a lot of very popular semi automatics?
The biggest problem is 9mm FMJ? Does that ammo perform differently out of other 9mm semi autos? Is popularity with civilians affects by the ammo the military uses?
So to answer the OP, posts like the one quoted illustrate part of the reason, no personal experience but... then compare posts above from people with personal experience and those present a little different perspective.
Have shot Beretta Elite IIs, M9s, FS92s a fair bit, as well as seven non-Beratta 9mm semi autos. The FS92 Inox, SP01 Shadow, and PSP P7 are ones I'll hold on to. It may not be the easiest to shoot when first pick up, it may not fit all hands perfectly, works for me just fine though.
I loved my Italian 92FS INOX, then some clown offered me his SIG... These examples just support the ammo debate.
The first victim was shot with a P220, using 6 rounds of S+B .45ACP 230gr. FMJ. S+B is loaded hot and considered to be milspec.
,
Our second contestant is wearing 10 rounds of Remington Golden Saber 9mm 124gr. +P hollowpoint from a PPQ.
,
The veggies were shot at ten yards, then given an uncerimonious burial. At least next year I won't have to transport any pumpkins.
The first victim was shot with a P220, using 6 rounds of S+B .45ACP 230gr. FMJ. S+B is loaded hot and considered to be milspec.
Our second contestant is wearing 10 rounds of Remington Golden Saber 9mm 124gr. +P hollowpoint from a PPQ.
The veggies were shot at ten yards, then given an uncerimonious burial. At least next year I won't have to transport any pumpkins.
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
Nice job R005t4r, now a pumpkin defence thread is sure to follow (am voting for 12 GA loaded with ginger & cinnamon).
My Beretta M9 is my go-to 9mm, fires everything without a burp. With the tritium sights and SGS comp it's like shooting a pellet gun. It's a keeper. Don't really dig polymer frames, though I do own a couple, and CZ's put me to sleep. Boring...like Volvo boring. CZ's are reliable...clunky, ugly, stiff, and reliable.
People often invest their ego's into their possessions in an attempt to solidify their justification for them. This often leads to people "championing" something so much so as to loose perspective.
There are many wonderful and fun to shoot firearms and Beretta are no different. Heck even a badly made pistol that jams can be fun if you have the right mindset.
There are many wonderful and fun to shoot firearms and Beretta are no different. Heck even a badly made pistol that jams can be fun if you have the right mindset.
...Both of which are based on mid-1970s designs, like the Beretta. Other than various HKs (USP/P30/P200/HK45), there haven't been very many new DA/SA pistols introduced in the past 20 years or so that have seen widespread adoption and/or commercial success. It would appear that the state of the art has largely moved towards constant trigger actions. Larry Vickers has commented on the subject here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1341465&highlight=da/sa#post1341465
This is not to say that DA/SA cannot be employed effectively, as Todd Green and others have demonstrated. The real issue is that the DA trigger is inherently more difficult to master than either a striker-fired or conventional single action. If you already have a DA/SA pistol that works for you, great, but why start from a clean slate with the harder-to-use platform?
The real question is not why the Beretta 92 series of pistols is "bad," but of what they offer compared to other pistols on the market.
- Location
- Mississauga
^^ +1Love my Beretta. I like the fit and feel.
Polymer striker fired pistol designs also date back to the 1970s and there are successful gun designs in DA/SA, single action and DAO so I don't think that is a major factor. Beretta's waning in popularity likely stems from increase competition. They use to be significantly better made, but with the spread in CNC machines and good metallurgy there are a lot of good gun producers out there. Beretta still makes excellent firearms, but price premium doesn't buy as large of increase in quality as it use to so the number of people willing to pay the premium has been reduced. When you can buy your kid a electric guitar at Walmart for $130 dollars it makes it harder to rationalize spending $2000 on a Fender Guitar the Fender is undoubtably better, but is it that noticeably better that you would pay the price premium.
H.K.Glock 007
Regular
- Location
- 6 Feet from the Elks a$$! MB
Dija save it and eat it?
You bastids!
sincerely
(peter griffin)
You bastids!
sincerely
(peter griffin)
I loved my Italian 92FS INOX, then some clown offered me his SIG... These examples just support the ammo debate.
The first victim was shot with a P220, using 6 rounds of S+B .45ACP 230gr. FMJ. S+B is loaded hot and considered to be milspec.
,
Our second contestant is wearing 10 rounds of Remington Golden Saber 9mm 124gr. +P hollowpoint from a PPQ.
,
The veggies were shot at ten yards, then given an uncerimonious burial. At least next year I won't have to transport any pumpkins.
When I got into the hobby last year, I had zero intention of owning a 9mm. I wanted a DE, a 45 1911 and decided on a 40SW polymer (M&P). But when I went to the range with a friend to try his Russian surplus, he also had a G17 and the 92FS. That was the day I decided I won't own a Glock - not because it was bad but because it wasn't special in any way, it was precisely fine. Functional, simple looking, reliable... good. After one mag with the 92 I offered to buy it. When he refused, it got added to the list.
It was odd, because before I tried it, anytime I mentioned the Beretta, I heard from people that it's fine but it can be finicky or somehow otherwise troublesome. One of the things I really liked about it is that with its relative heft, ergonomics and light kick of the 9, I can just shoot it all day long. I've done a few hundred rounds in one outing and I could have gone longer no problem if I brought more. And this is the MFS ammo, and I've never had one hiccup. My friend, I think, owns the only guns he could possibly get away with, maybe an AK47 too. He has never cleaned his guns, not once. If he had a 1911, he'd be the guy from the youtube video, who got beaten to death by zombie Browning. So my anecdotal evidence from him and myself is that the 92FS is incredibly durable.
It was odd, because before I tried it, anytime I mentioned the Beretta, I heard from people that it's fine but it can be finicky or somehow otherwise troublesome. One of the things I really liked about it is that with its relative heft, ergonomics and light kick of the 9, I can just shoot it all day long. I've done a few hundred rounds in one outing and I could have gone longer no problem if I brought more. And this is the MFS ammo, and I've never had one hiccup. My friend, I think, owns the only guns he could possibly get away with, maybe an AK47 too. He has never cleaned his guns, not once. If he had a 1911, he'd be the guy from the youtube video, who got beaten to death by zombie Browning. So my anecdotal evidence from him and myself is that the 92FS is incredibly durable.
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
