would h&k be a good choice?
- Thread starter bear cat
- Start date
Riiiiiiiiight becouse thats an accurate comparison
Op if you want a hk get the hk you dont see them often.
Tell me what the HK does that the Daniel Defense will not.
You're not trying to say that the Americans have the best SF are you?
OP if an HK makes you happy then go for it - but don't come on here asking for opinions and then get upset because people are giving them. Go ahead and spend you $4500 or whatever, but be prepared to be out-shot by people with more trigger time on vastly cheaper AR's.
Yeah the SAS aren't that good - neither are the Chinese SF units that finished 1st, 2nd and 4th overall at Warrior 6.
Frankly, LAV (or any other current instructor, former SF operator) with a Norc is better than most folks with a 416, you can not buy skill you can build it and nurture it, but it isn't intrinsic to the cost of the tools you use. Anyone who tells you any different is full of it.
Frankly, LAV (or any other current instructor, former SF operator) with a Norc is better than most folks with a 416, you can not buy skill you can build it and nurture it, but it isn't intrinsic to the cost of the tools you use. Anyone who tells you any different is full of it.
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There are a lot of options out there as far as ARs go. First of all, you have to answer a few questions for yourself.
1). Budget... How much are you willing to drop on the weapon system as a whole (optics, aftermarket furniture, lights, grips slings, mags, etc.)
2). Role... what do you want to do with the weapon system, CQB, Service Rifle, firearms operations course etc..
3). Frequency... How often do you [lan on taking the ol' musket out and blatting off a few.
4). Durability... How many rounds do you plan to put down the pipe in total...
-S.
A for the $2000 you are going to spend on a Colt Canada carbine, you can buy a Noricno and sling, optic, spare mags and a Dillon reloading press. You can always find something cheaper. But you have to pay for top quality, and I'm sorry but Colt Canada is nowhere near HK level of quality.
I've handled both, frankly I didn't see that much difference, except one had H&K stamped on it and cost 2x as much
Im not being a tough guy, just trying to get you to think twice about wasting your money.
Only one crying will be your accountant.
The idea that you don't know a whole lot about it tells me you should invest more wisely.
Buy a high quality AR like a Colt or a DD and it will perform the same for thousands less.
Then spend the difference on a ton of ammo and shoot the hell out of it.
Only one crying will be your accountant.
The idea that you don't know a whole lot about it tells me you should invest more wisely.
Buy a high quality AR like a Colt or a DD and it will perform the same for thousands less.
Then spend the difference on a ton of ammo and shoot the hell out of it.
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You're right. You can't buy skill. I've seen switched on men do more damage with a suppressed .22 than a oxygen thief with a Mk23 Mod0 and twice the ammo. I've made good hits under conditions and at distances that many are convinced are tall tales. It's the tradesman, not his tools that makes things happen.
-S.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
OP,
I don't think DD is being a tough guy. He is offering a reasonable solution to your question. No one is saying the HK is a bad rifle. In fact, its an awesome rifle. If they were the only company making ARs ( piston or DI), we would all own one. The problem is they are so expensive. Most people do not have the funds to buy such an exclusive rifle. If you can afford it, go ahead and buy one. You won't regret it. Your wife, if you have one, may not feel the same way when she opens the credit card bill though!
Some of us are a bit.... rough around the edges and won't sugar coat sh*t. Some of us go out of our way to be a proper d!ck (like me). However, I won't blow sunshine up you're skirt, but I will share my knowledge and experience. So toughen up a bit and get the knowledge, the men I gleaned my knowledge from either ran me into the ground, tried to beat the living hell out of me or tried to kill me... you're getting off lucky.
-S.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
With the 416 you pay more than double for the same parts life and performance as any decent AR and a support network best described as challenging.
There's no disputing that HK guns ooze quality.
But the AR was designed to be a simple, ultralight, modular rifle. Throwing a gas piston, a heavy duty quad rail, and raising the top rail over the standard hight etc etc, I feel really defeats the purpose of the AR in the first place. The HK's "features" I think negate some of the advantages of the AR design.
I actually feel the same about the C8a3. Again, excellent rifle, well built, reliability beyond dispute. They put a lot of thought into rifling,, barrel lengths, etc that I find absolutely fascinating. CC's track record speaks for itself. But then they put the heaviest barrel possible on what's supposed to be a light, fast, maneuverable, handy carbine. It's heavier and less wieldly than a C7. The configuration just doesn't make sense to me.
It's frustrating because I would love a Colt Canada, but I don't want a rifle that I think doesn't make sense. What I'd give for a C8A1.
But the AR was designed to be a simple, ultralight, modular rifle. Throwing a gas piston, a heavy duty quad rail, and raising the top rail over the standard hight etc etc, I feel really defeats the purpose of the AR in the first place. The HK's "features" I think negate some of the advantages of the AR design.
I actually feel the same about the C8a3. Again, excellent rifle, well built, reliability beyond dispute. They put a lot of thought into rifling,, barrel lengths, etc that I find absolutely fascinating. CC's track record speaks for itself. But then they put the heaviest barrel possible on what's supposed to be a light, fast, maneuverable, handy carbine. It's heavier and less wieldly than a C7. The configuration just doesn't make sense to me.
It's frustrating because I would love a Colt Canada, but I don't want a rifle that I think doesn't make sense. What I'd give for a C8A1.
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^x2, H & K are sweet rifles, but what Gunnerlove states is true from my knowledge of the platform.
A Colt Canada SA rifle can hang with any other AR made regarding reliability and accuracy (likely the best reliability wise and the barrel should last a lifetime) is Canadian made with a good warranty that doesn't require the rifle be sent outside the country (for months) to be serviced, all at half the cost of a H & K (I'd suggest a complete SA 20 and IUR 15.7" Upper for the ultimate CC set-up at this time).
Nobody would argue that a KAC is an excellent AR (some would say the very best) with more features then a CC, yet at a higher price.
So if moneys no object perhaps KAC, CC then a H & K might be the three AR's to do your own research on, however if you must have a piston AR (although I'm not sure why you/anyone would) then the H & K is likely your best choice based on quality/durability (as compared to other piston AR's) even if ease of H & K service and parts availability is less then stellar.
Also don't forget optics, which for any of these rifles could easily cost the same or more then the rifle itself, well except for the H & K.
If you could hold or better yet shoot these fine rifles that might make for the easiest way to decide which one is right for you.
Of course Maple Leaf Pilgrim makes several good points below which are worth considering before buying any decent AR.
Cheers D
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An HK MR223 latest version comes fully ambi you stated you are only going to buy one rifle, if this is true or if you mean one AR to rule them all. Then HK is the right choice, it's worth 4 colts and that includes Colt Canada. Sorry guys but this debate is old and we have over 10 years of data to prove it. Most of the other Brands out there can serve you well but for the money HK is worth it. It's not like you can buy a Scar or which would be a nice choice as well too. If anything I would consider picking the MR308 as well. Also I believe The shooting Edge has a 416 upper for sale as well for $5500. That would go for god knows how much more in the US right now.
Seals & Delta use it. They also use KAC as well. You won't regret it in the long run.
Just do it bro. LAV helped build the gun. That says it all right there !
Seals & Delta use it. They also use KAC as well. You won't regret it in the long run.
Just do it bro. LAV helped build the gun. That says it all right there !
