Would YOU buy a Norinco M14 if the price doubles?

At 4-500 bucks a guy can live with the quality issues and self warranty. At 1000 bucks the quality would need to be 100 percent or the dealer will get inundated with warranty claims, dealer bashing and disgruntled customers. Basically it's a slippery slope.

Made in China is not the problem. Made badly in China is the problem. Made better they're worth more regardless of where there're made.
 
It's all good.

I started this thread because my assumption was that people buy the Norinco M14 for its perceived value.

And I'd say this has been confirmed.

Add 50% or 100% and most respondents figure it's no longer worth it unless quality increases too.

Wonder if our Norinco dealers are in for an unpleasant surprise in a couple of months.

Cheers!
 
After all, how much would YOU pay for someone else's match grade norinco, if it goes up on the EE? good investment for the original purchaser?

That's a good point.

I have seen them on there two and when I do my Spider-sense and alarms go off. I suppose the experts here can probably look at the deal and examine the parts and assess their value correctly - but I can't. I can't tell the difference between a refurbed USGI op rod and one from a boutique maker...nor can I tell if the upgrades were properly done just by looking at them.

At least with an M1A you know what you're looking at.
 
The price on the Norinco rifles is the same now as it was in the 1990s. How many other guns out there hold the same price that they were at 20 something years ago? I've even seen Norinco M305s sell on the EE for $250 (yes, it is true). At that price, you could dump $1500 worth of USGI and Springfield upgrades into a rifle and still save money.
 
The price on the Norinco rifles is the same now as it was in the 1990s. How many other guns out there hold the same price that they were at 20 something years ago? I've even seen Norinco M305s sell on the EE for $250 (yes, it is true). At that price, you could dump $1500 worth of USGI and Springfield upgrades into a rifle and still save money.

Depends on your perspective. See post #43.


So I guess you figure it's still a deal. Fair enough. Thanks.
 
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Depends on your perspective. See post #43.


So I guess you figure it's still a deal. Fair enough. Thanks.

Yeah, I do think they are a deal, especially for working stiffs like myself, who aren't loaded. However, everyone knows the caveats too(indexing issue, flash hider issue, etc.). There's hundreds of threads here, posted by noobs and seasoned posters alike who ask the same questions over and over regarding the M305/14s. So, it pretty much goes that whoever is buying one knows what they might be getting. I have done just the basic upgrades, and have thoroughly enjoyed the various Norcs which I have had over the years since the 90s. They are a fun rifle at the range and on the hunt. By the way, I am not a Norinco fanboy either, and the M305 rifle is the only Norinco that I have.
 
Yeah, I do think they are a deal, especially for working stiffs like myself, who aren't loaded. However, everyone knows the caveats too(indexing issue, flash hider issue, etc.). There's hundreds of threads here, posted by noobs and seasoned posters alike who ask the same questions over and over regarding the M305/14s. So, it pretty much goes that whoever is buying one knows what they might be getting. I have done just the basic upgrades, and have thoroughly enjoyed the various Norcs which I have had over the years since the 90s. They are a fun rifle at the range and on the hunt. By the way, I am not a Norinco fanboy either, and the M305 rifle is the only Norinco that I have.

good it works for you. wouldn't say i'm loaded either....but i can't invest the TIME to bring a norinco up to spec. wish i could do more puttering, and you're right, there's lots of info here for the asking.
 
good it works for you. wouldn't say i'm loaded either....but i can't invest the TIME to bring a norinco up to spec. wish i could do more puttering, and you're right, there's lots of info here for the asking.

Have you ever been to one of Hungry/Tactical Teacher's clinics? This man has been willing to help many people, not just CGN members, with removing the bugs from their Norincos. His generosity and willingness to share his free time to help others have been a huge part of the M305s popularity in Canada.
 
So this new shipment coming to marstar, is it the last of the receivers?
Or have they resumed production of the receivers?

It is my understanding that Chinese production of M14 receivers ceased many years ago.
I have not read anything that indicates production will be restarted.

Different may have additional information on the topic.
 
I would never buy a Chinese copy of an American icon, not even at half the current price.

I currently have a SAinc Loaded; saw it for sale and couldn't resist. I don't regret it, but if I was to purchase another M14, I'd probably hunt and gather USGI parts and make it an all-american custom build. I might actually do just that as my next project. One thing for sure, there would be no Chinese parts, no Taiwanese parts, no nothing that comes from outside America.

This is an american rifle and should be treated as that.
 
As far as I know the Chinese M14 receivers are not copies. They bought the tooling back in the days. Can be wrong but its what I recall.
 
Have you ever been to one of Hungry/Tactical Teacher's clinics? This man has been willing to help many people, not just CGN members, with removing the bugs from their Norincos. His generosity and willingness to share his free time to help others have been a huge part of the M305s popularity in Canada.

sigh... like i say, wish i had the time. someday!

i'm certain his expertise would be useful on other brands' m14's too.
 
It is my understanding that Chinese production of M14 receivers ceased many years ago.
I have not read anything that indicates production will be restarted.

Different may have additional information on the topic.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...Supply-in-canada?highlight=m14+price+increase

This thread suggests that price will be increasing, due to need to start manufacturing receivers again.

Elsewhere Marstar also indicates it will be going up, but doesn't get into the reasons for the increase.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/983036-More-M-305-s
 
From M14 Rifle History and Development by Lee Emerson copyright 2009:

Taiwan

The Taiwanese government had decided to manufacture the M14 rifle and M60 machine gun for its military by no later than April 1966. In May of that year, the Taiwanese Ambassador requested the sale of ten M14 rifles and ten M60 machine guns from the United States to his country. The Combined Service Forces supplies the ordnance, communications and administrative needs of Taiwan’s armed services. Under this command headed by General Lai Ming-tang, the M14 and M60 was to be manufactured.

The Military Assistance and Advisory Group (MAAG) China attempted to dissuade General Ming-tang from producing the M14 and M60. General Ming-tang was advised by MAAG China that it would be difficult to produce the M14 rifle based on the experience of American manufacturers. He was informed that the M14 receiver and bolt was made of material very sensitive to heat treatment. MAAG China estimated that it would take fifteen years for the Combined Service Forces to produce a sufficient quantity of M14 rifles for its infantry units. Nevertheless, the U. S. Secretary of State approved the Taiwanese Ambassador’s request on June 02, 1966.

In October of the same year, MAAG China sent along two Taiwanese requests. The first was to obtain permission for a team headed by General Ming-tang to tour United States facilities associated with the M14 and M60. The Taiwanese also wanted technical data related to the M14 and M60. The Department of the Army approved the requests. The visits were conducted the same month and the technical data provided to Taiwanese representatives at that time.

The Taiwanese government sent a letter in December 1966 to the U. S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense stating its desire to establish the capability to manufacture M14 rifles and M60 machine guns within the following two years. The Taiwanese planned to produce only 6,000 M14 rifles and 1,200 M60 machine guns. The December 1966 letter requested consent of the U. S. government so Taiwan could begin production and it also asked for additional technical data related to the effort. To this end, a formal Memorandum of Understanding between Taiwan and the United States was signed on January 23, 1967.

The Memorandum of Understanding grants license to the Government of Taiwan to produce M14 rifles known as the Type 57. The January 23, 1967 memorandum states that Taiwan will purchase tools, components, material, documentation, technical assistance and assemblies from Fiscal Year 1967 through Fiscal Year 1969. As agreed to in the Memorandum of Understanding, the U. S. government sold some of the M14 rifle production machinery used by Harrington & Richardson to Taiwan in 1968. One complete set of fixtures and inspection gages was supplied to the Government of Taiwan by Springfield Armory. By November 1968, nineteen machine tools had been accepted by the Government of Taiwan out of 150 offered by the U. S. government. This assistance effort was coordinated by MAAG China. The Memorandum of Understanding also required that the Taiwanese T57 items produced would be interchangeable logistically with USGI M14 items.

On January 07, 1969 MAAG China made a recommendation to Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander In Chief Pacific (and father of American POW and later U. S. Senator John S. McCain, III from Arizona) to provide Taiwan with any excess M14 rifles in U. S. inventory up to a total quantity of 380,000 at either no cost (Military Assistance Program) or low cost (Foreign Military Sales). The commanding officer of MAAG China made this recommendation because Taiwan had decided to equip its armed forces with the M14 but was only capable of an annual production rate of 15,000. Admiral McCain followed up a week later on the request by asking the commander of U. S. Army forces in the Pacific and the Department of the Army itself as to availability of excess M14 rifles in inventory. Admiral McCain also requested MAAG China advise him on what funds could be provided by the Taiwanese government for the purchase of spare parts, basic issue items and ammunition needed to support any excess M14 rifles that could be transferred. The Army determined that no servicable M14 rifles were available as many Army and Army Reserve commands had yet not converted to the M16A1 plus it was still unknown as to which new rifle the Republic of Korea armed services would adopt, M14 or M16A1. The Department of the Army informed Commander In Chief Pacific on July 14, 1969 that it would release 8,000 unserviceable M14 rifles to Taiwan under the Military Assistance Program at no cost except for packing, handling and transportation charges. These charges, approximately $20,000, were borne by MAAG China. These 8,000 unserviceable M14 rifles were delivered to the Taiwanese government by the end of 1969.

The Republic of China (Taiwan) made approximately 1,000,000 Type 57 rifles from 1969 until at least 1980. Due to start up difficulties, only 200 Type 57 rifles were produced by July 01, 1969. Some, if not all, Type 57 rifles were made at the 60th Arsenal in Kaoshiung, Taiwan. There are two models of Type 57 rifles. Both the first and second model receiver heels are marked in Chinese with the exception that the serial numbers use Arabic numerals. First model Type 57 rifles were assembled with many USGI parts including stocks, flash suppressors and magazines. The Taiwanese government did not receive the tooling to make flash suppressors and magazines when it received the H&R production machinery. Thus, the Taiwanese government had to make the tooling to manufacture these parts to continue production. The first models had serial numbers 000001 to 048655. The second model began with serial number 048666. The Taiwanese developed a simplified rear sight for the second model Type 57 rifle and the receiver heel information was rearranged. The flat surface immediately behind the rear sight on Type 57 receivers is very distinct in comparison to a USGI M14 receiver. There has not been any collaboration whatsoever of any kind between the People’s Republic of China and Taiwan on M14 type rifle design or manufacture.

Like the United States, Taiwan eventually adopted the M16 platform as its standard infantry rifle. The T57 rifle was later replaced with the T65 adopted in 1976. The T65 series rifles were Taiwanese designed and manufactured variations of the M16A1 rifle. Due to the large number of T57 rifles produced and M14 rifles purchased from the United States, T57 and M14 rifles are still in the inventory of the Republic of China Army.
 
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...Supply-in-canada?highlight=m14+price+increase

This thread suggests that price will be increasing, due to need to start manufacturing receivers again.

Elsewhere Marstar also indicates it will be going up, but doesn't get into the reasons for the increase.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/983036-More-M-305-s
So there's no guarantee that Norinco will be producing anymore m305s due to the high costs and limited market? Please tell me I'm being hysterical. I had hoped production of receivers had already restarted with this new shipment when I heard the cost increase.
 
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