XCR vs Sig classic green

MKb42 said:
sig551 is weapon of choice for german Gsg-9 spec ops and their police Swat teams (SEK) use the 551 as well.

French Gign also use the 551LB, there are many, many more. its an expensive system and thats why it was not selected as a service rifle for others. but many authoritative people say it is the finest 5.56 assault rifles in the world.
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French special forces use the SIG too.
 
French got a few "special" forces - the army has one, the Marine has one......some of them are on HK416 apparently. The only one that I am aware of which uses (used) SG is the marine commando.

GSG-9 is like the federal police SWAT team - and GIGN literally is the "mounted police".

By large, the SG series are mostly swiss military rifles(and swiss hasn't been in war for hundreds of years) and police weapons used in western Europeans states. If you want a weapon that has real military record which had gone through REAL trials through real military campaigns with shooting wars - get an AR, AK, G3 , FN FAL and SA80A2 - and to certain extent, FAMAS.

The SG is certainly nicely made - but it is developed by a military which is defensive in nature with no real experience. For that reason, I will give weapons such as IWI TAVOR more credit -of course part of the reason the TAVOR was made the way it is because people need to sling their rifles to go to the mall and control their weapons while yapping on the cell phone. I will even give the Korean K2 more credit.
 
Raytheon said:
While I agree that people get attached to their purchases, it is possible that on an individual basis that it could be combat ready but maybe not heavily combat tested.

For Mike Kelly who won the Canadian Nationals Level III 3-Gun Match competition using his XCR Rifle than compared to your standard weekend shooter with and XCR is different. If you have taken courses and competed with it extensively it would in my opinion be considered reliable.

I think the "combat-ready" factor is two folded. Years of use by a military in a variety of extreme conditions is one. The SIG/SAN has had this and the XCR has not but only because it is too new. To gain such a reputation requires extensive time and testing. The people at Robarms make good products and my M96 proved it to me with after ten years of hard use. After ten to twenty years we could make an accurate judgment for the XCR.

The second part of "combat-ready" I feel is the individual and their training. No matter hold good the rifle is does not make up for a lack of training and practice. When I pick up my buddy's XCR or my other buddy's Swiss Arms I don't shoot as well as they can with them because I haven't practiced, trained and dry fired it a million times like they have. That said I can match and beat them with my M96 for which I have practiced and trained with and dry fired a million times. There is always the human error factor such as not seating the magazine correctly and having a dud round. If you do not practice and learn how to problem solve your rifle and situation it doesn't matter how great your rifle is. It's now become worthless if in a life and death situation unless you've trained on how to deal with malfunctions.

I've seen too many shooters with all types of firearms, AR15s from all types of brands, SIG Swiss Army, XCR, M96s who did not know how to deal with malfunctions and other problems. For them I would not consider any one of them "combat-ready" because when it does fail (lack of cleaning, malfunction, etc...) they cannot solve the problem.
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I definitely agree that the individual is probably more important than the gun.

But buying one gun or another won't solve the problem with the individual, regardless. So of the issues that can be addressed by buying the right gun, we should be asking, "Does the XCR address those issues?"

And I also agree that given enough time, we'll probably have a good idea about whether that's true or not. I just hate watching guys who clearly don't know, announce confidently to everyone else "my gun is ready to go to war and you should feel confident buying one if that's your criteria!"

How many of the guys who say "absolutely, the XCR is as good as anything else out there" have run their gun through a few thousand-round weekends? How many have taken them to training classes and pushed the guns? Those are the conditions that the Colt and DD and Knight ARs seem to dominate in. So before we start saying "it's just as good" let's see just how hard the AR system can be pushed.

ANY rifle will survive a 200 round YEAR. I want to know if it will survive 200 round HOURS on a regular basis.

Not a lot of Canadian shooters do this and I have not seen any XCR owners here stepping up and saying, "here's the XCR I ran at LMS Defense's Carbine 1 and 2, it was awesome as usual and I am taking it to the Oregon Firearms Academy and Blackwater's facility for a few more 1000 round weekends later this year."

What I have seen more of is guys who don't put a thousand rounds a year through their guns saying, "I have 200 rounds through this rifle and it's flawless."

Well that may be, but for me, the real jury is still out, and the deliberations I have been listening to are not overly encouraging for the most part.

In ten years if the XCR has taken over I will be totally happy for both Robinson and for Canadian shooters who will have access to an awesome non-restricted rifle which takes AR mags. But so far I remain skeptical that this will take place.
 
I have held the Sig and it was very nice with a great trigger....you can tell alot by 2-3 dry fires. I have not held a XCR.

So Sig for the Win hands down. Much better fit and finish
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Lol... I love your scientific approach. You know it wins 'hands down', but you've never actually held an XCR, OR FIRED EITHER OF THEM?
 
sig551 is weapon of choice for german Gsg-9 spec ops and their police Swat teams (SEK) use the 551 as well.
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The Sig 551 is NOT the same as a SA PE-90 Black Special.

You know how I know this:

83. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the SG-550 rifle and SG-551 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them.
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Thats from: arts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted, SOR/98-462, which prohibits the SG-550 and 551.

If you maintain they are, you are practically asking the RCMP to knock on your door and take away your precious rifle.
 
I think we need to have a XCR vs SAN shoot out - if someone donate ammo and rifles I will take the difficult tasks of pulling the trigger couple thousand time - hell, I will even crawl through 100m of mud for this.
 
rivetc78 said:
I don't own either, but like I tend to do... I will comment anyway :)

I have held the Sig and it was very nice with a great trigger....you can tell alot by 2-3 dry fires. I have not held a XCR.

So Sig for the Win hands down. Much better fit and finish
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This is a great example of a top notch comparison. I ordered an XCR yesterday, but I think I will cancel my order today after reading that.
 
misanthropist you brought up some very valid points.

I think neither the Swiss Arms Classic Army or XCR is perfect. But I feel both will only keep getting better.

I agree that not many have truly tested the XCR in training courses, competitions, and duty use. The average shooter usually does not push their firearms generally because they are expensive. Which limits having real evidence on it.

I personally haven't had an issue with the AR15 because I keep mine well maintained and lubed and with the right brand I feel confident it will do well. It has served in numerous conflicts and generally works good with proper maintenance, parts replacement and lots of lube. They have been tested in combat, training courses and competitions and some brands have done exceptionally well as you mentioned.

I agree that it helps to know you have a rifle that can handle heavy use (200 rounds every hour) when the zombies are on you. It also helps build shooter confidence in their abilities and their rifle. I have no information on whether the XCR can do this currently. But considering both the XCR and SAN use the reliable gas piston system I would suspect it could depending on the barrel quality.

I have heard both bad and good reviews of the XCR and Swiss Arms from others but it is hard to not find one without bias either way. I agree that there are too many that say it's perfect after only putting two hundred rounds downrange. I agree the jury is still out but I would wait for results of long term testing done. I agree that because you have to hold the bolt assembly together when you remove it and put it back can result in loss of parts which isn't great.

I think this exercise is pointless currently now because of the lack of true testing on the XCR (unless some takes greentips up to the task). At this point this Swiss Arms has the upper hand because of years being around, tested and combat/training use. But I think in the end there is a place for both as if there isn't enough room for more non-restricted black and green rifles in Canada...
 
Raytheon said:
misanthropist you brought up some very valid points.

I think neither the Swiss Arms Classic Army or XCR is perfect. But I feel both will only keep getting better.

I agree that not many have truly tested the XCR in training courses, competitions, and duty use. The average shooter usually does not push their firearms generally because they are expensive. Which limits having real evidence on it.

I personally haven't had an issue with the AR15 because I keep mine well maintained and lubed and with the right brand I feel confident it will do well. It has served in numerous conflicts and generally works good with proper maintenance, parts replacement and lots of lube. They have been tested in combat, training courses and competitions and some brands have done exceptionally well as you mentioned.

I agree that it helps to know you have a rifle that can handle heavy use (200 rounds every hour) when the zombies are on you. It also helps build shooter confidence in their abilities and their rifle. I have no information on whether the XCR can do this currently. But considering both the XCR and SAN use the reliable gas piston system I would suspect it could depending on the barrel quality.

I have heard both bad and good reviews of the XCR and Swiss Arms from others but it is hard to not find one without bias either way. I agree that there are too many that say it's perfect after only putting two hundred rounds downrange. I agree the jury is still out but I would wait for results of long term testing done. I agree that because you have to hold the bolt assembly together when you remove it and put it back can result in loss of parts which isn't great.

I think this exercise is pointless currently now because of the lack of true testing on the XCR (unless some takes greentips up to the task). At this point this Swiss Arms has the upper hand because of years being around, tested and combat/training use. But I think in the end there is a place for both as if there isn't enough room for more non-restricted black and green rifles in Canada...
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I would give this post a double-barreled thumbs up for sure.
 
I have just purchased an XCR (thanks Rick). I have been following this thread and it made me stop and think about my pending purchase. From what I have winnowed from the opinions expressed in this thread is that they are both fine rifles. I do not regret my purchase and look forward to many days at the range with it.
 
ppsh38/41 said:
I have just purchased an XCR (thanks Rick). I have been following this thread and it made me stop and think about my pending purchase. From what I have winnowed from the opinions expressed in this thread is that they are both fine rifles. I do not regret my purchase and look forward to many days at the range with it.
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'atta boy! Don't waste your time arguing about which rifle is better on an online forum. Spend the time shooting that fine machine down at the range!
 
From a functionality standpoint I like the XCR more

Quick Detach barrels
Multi-Caliber
Monolithic quad rail
Ambi bolt release
Better ergos
5 setting gas system
Non-reciprocating charging handles

SAN I think is more consistent with a greater attention to detail when it comes to building the guns. The Swiss are anal about QC.

Still, Robarm supports their product very well, so they will take care of you if something is not right.

I've love to get my hands on a XCR-Mini

prodpic.jpg
 
aspect said:
Could someone please explain to me all the specific technical differences between the two rifles besides the fact that one looks different, has an aluminum lower and uses different magazines? I've done plenty of searching and all I ever seem to read is that the sig 556 must be crappy because it's not 100% built by the swiss, and that people don't think it looks as nice.
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The SIG 556 is not a good gun.
 
^ thank you for the technical comparison. You have swayed my opinion based on your sound reasoning.
 
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