Shooting ducks on the water? :)

effinggoof said:
Market hunters using punt guns were most certainly not sportsmen, nor were the professional buffalo hunters, whalers or sealers.

All of them were hunting for a living, not as a hobby. Totally different thing.
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I hunt to put food on my table. If you only hunt for the "sport" of hunting. You may want to go back and look at your values.
 
Aries- said:
I hunt to put food on my table. If you only hunt for the "sport" of hunting. You may want to go back and look at your values.
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This thread is not about hunting in general, its about shooting sitting ducks. IMHO its more sporting to wing shoot vs shooting sitting ducks, its more than likely more productive as well.:)

The important thing is how much enjoyment one gets from hunting...as a beginner at around 14 years old a dead duck was all that would matter, as I matured as a duck hunter I got more self satisfaction from wing shooting ducks and started bringing more ducks home. I would say, I became a sportsman.

If you only hunt to put food on your table, you are subsistence hunting and again, IMHO not considered a sportsman.
 
hawk-i said:
This thread is not about hunting in general, its about shooting sitting ducks. IMHO its more sporting to wing shoot vs shooting sitting ducks, its more than likely more productive as well.:) The important thing is how much enjoyment one gets from hunting...as a beginner at around 14 years old a dead duck was all that would matter, as I matured as a duck hunter I got more self satisfaction from wing shooting ducks and started bringing more ducks home. I would say, I became a sportsman. If you only hunt to put food on your table, you are subsistence hunting and again, IMHO not considered a sportsman.
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Well said. And I think there is a growth/maturation process to hunting for many people that runs parallel to their lives.
 
I used to trap and had a .22LR with me and before the small game season closed late December, grouse were fair game and only possible when sitting. I've taken a few with rifled firearms and in flight is not possible. I've hunted with scattergun with people who thought it unsporting to shoot until a bird took flight: Since it was on their land, I respected how they wished to hunt and did likewise but on my own land, if a bird allowed me to walk into range of #7.5 and improved cylinder... it's fair whatever the bird happens to be doing. I hunt for the physical, visual, audible and tasteful delectations.
 
BumbleB said:
I am one. I would not hunt with a person that was shooting ducks or geese on the water or standing in a field unless they were disabled, under 9 or over 80. If you need food that bad there are food banks.
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You would rather a person lived off of John Q Public than feed himself and his family on his own? Lol


The Liberal is strong in this thread
 
hawk-i said:
This thread is not about hunting in general, its about shooting sitting ducks. IMHO its more sporting to wing shoot vs shooting sitting ducks, its more than likely more productive as well.:)

The important thing is how much enjoyment one gets from hunting...as a beginner at around 14 years old a dead duck was all that would matter, as I matured as a duck hunter I got more self satisfaction from wing shooting ducks and started bringing more ducks home. I would say, I became a sportsman.

If you only hunt to put food on your table, you are subsistence hunting and again, IMHO not considered a sportsman.
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So do you only take running shots at deer?
 
Cleftwynd said:
You would rather a person lived off of John Q Public than feed himself and his family on his own? Lol


The Liberal is strong in this thread
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Ya and I am a Liberal all right NOT! Can't stand the liberals, they smell worse then thieving coyotes! lol
 
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Cleftwynd said:
You would rather a person lived off of John Q Public than feed himself and his family on his own? Lol


The Liberal is strong in this thread
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If a person is legitimately feeding themselves from hunting, they get a pass on all sorts of sportsmanship issues.

But for the vast majority of hunters, its not a subsistence hunt. You can buy a crapton of rice and beans for the price of a few boxes of shells and the cost of filling up a truck, and there are damn few out there living in the bush and off the land #### Proenneke style.

The rest of us...the guys who own stuff like boats, quads, 4x4s and cant reasonably claim to need that meat....it behooves us to be the most sportsmanlike hunters we can be.
 
effinggoof said:
If a person is legitimately feeding themselves from hunting, they get a pass on all sorts of sportsmanship issues.

But for the vast majority of hunters, its not a subsistence hunt. You can buy a crapton of rice and beans for the price of a few boxes of shells and the cost of filling up a truck, and there are damn few out there living in the bush and off the land #### Proenneke style.

The rest of us...the guys who own stuff like boats, quads, 4x4s and cant reasonably claim to need that meat....it behooves us to be the most sportsmanlike hunters we can be.
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What if they have a couple million in the bank, but just like the game meat... not sportsmen, huh. Shoot a grouse in a tree, not flushed by an English Setter, or a hare just sitting there, not being chased by a beagle... or a deer feeding on apples, not chased by hounds, or a black duck gabbling in a creek, not spin-winging into decoys... makes them what? Unsporting redneck slobs? Your brand of judgmentalism, is extremely narrow and divisive.
 
hoytcanon said:
What if they have a couple million in the bank, but just like the game meat... not sportsmen, huh. Shoot a grouse in a tree, not flushed by an English Setter, or a hare just sitting there, not being chased by a beagle... or a deer feeding on apples, not chased by hounds, or a black duck gabbling in a creek, not spin-winging into decoys... makes them what? Unsporting redneck slobs? Your brand of judgmentalism, is extremely narrow and divisive.
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Nope . Do you even know what a true sportsman is defined as. Not from what I have seen.
Perhaps going back to the original hunters safety course data may help you which is based on a study recognized world wide since the late 70's

Be honest where do you fit right now.

The five stages of a HUNTER

Summary

Shooter Stage
Hunters at this stage simply want to do a lot of shooting, be it doves, ducks, squirrels, rabbits or even deer (in which case shooting opportunities are acceptable too). They want to test their shooting abilities, as well as that of their rifle or shotgun. These hunters are beginners and are often young as well.

Limiting-Out Stage
Eventually, simply burning through a lot of ammunition is no longer sufficient. Hunters at this stage still gain a lot of satisfaction from shooting, but now the number of birds or animals bagged becomes important too, and limiting-out, or filling a tag, is the gold standard.

Trophy Stage
Eventually the weight of the game bag becomes less important and the emphasis shifts from quantity to quality. Hunters at this stage gain satisfaction from being selective in taking game, such as a duck hunter who shoots only greenheads, a turkey hunter who only shoots long beards, or a deer hunter who takes only mature bucks. These hunters often travel long distances to hunt trophy animals.

Method Stage
For this hunter, taking game is still important, but more important is how that game is taken. True satisfaction comes from the method used to take game, with particular emphasis on more challenging methods such as archery or muzzleloading. This hunter will spend a lot of time scouting and using trail cameras, studying their quarry and practicing hunting skills such as calling and, in the case of a deer hunter, may even choose to target one specific animal.

Sportsman Stage
After many years in the field, the hunter begins to place the emphasis on the total hunting experience. Being in the outdoors, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing nature in all its beauty, now outweigh the need for taking game. These hunters often turn to mentoring other younger hunters for ultimate satisfaction.
Dr. Jackson and Dr. Norton found that not all hunters go through all of these stages, or in this particular order. They also found that it's possible for hunters to be at different stages with different species of game that they may pursue. In addition, a hunter's role models, as well as the amount of hunting they are able to do, will impact on how quickly hunters progress through the various stages.
 
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A bird in hand is worth three on the water....

Where in Canada today is one hunting game animals for sustenance because they have to ?

The amount of money and gear required to do this would out weight the need, especially when there are tags and bag limits to be considered.

My concern is with ricochet and taking more than the bag limit when shooting into a raft of birds...

I have shot my fair share of birds on the water as a method of recovery and not as the first method of harvesting.

Rob
 
3macs1 said:
Nope . Do you even know what a true sportsman is defined as. Not from what I have seen.
Perhaps going back to the original hunters safety course data may help you which is based on a study recognized world wide since the late 70's

Be honest where do you fit right now.

The five stages of a HUNTER

Summary

Shooter Stage
Hunters at this stage simply want to do a lot of shooting, be it doves, ducks, squirrels, rabbits or even deer (in which case shooting opportunities are acceptable too). They want to test their shooting abilities, as well as that of their rifle or shotgun. These hunters are beginners and are often young as well.

Limiting-Out Stage
Eventually, simply burning through a lot of ammunition is no longer sufficient. Hunters at this stage still gain a lot of satisfaction from shooting, but now the number of birds or animals bagged becomes important too, and limiting-out, or filling a tag, is the gold standard.

Trophy Stage
Eventually the weight of the game bag becomes less important and the emphasis shifts from quantity to quality. Hunters at this stage gain satisfaction from being selective in taking game, such as a duck hunter who shoots only greenheads, a turkey hunter who only shoots long beards, or a deer hunter who takes only mature bucks. These hunters often travel long distances to hunt trophy animals.

Method Stage
For this hunter, taking game is still important, but more important is how that game is taken. True satisfaction comes from the method used to take game, with particular emphasis on more challenging methods such as archery or muzzleloading. This hunter will spend a lot of time scouting and using trail cameras, studying their quarry and practicing hunting skills such as calling and, in the case of a deer hunter, may even choose to target one specific animal.

Sportsman Stage
After many years in the field, the hunter begins to place the emphasis on the total hunting experience. Being in the outdoors, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing nature in all its beauty, now outweigh the need for taking game. These hunters often turn to mentoring other younger hunters for ultimate satisfaction.
Dr. Jackson and Dr. Norton found that not all hunters go through all of these stages, or in this particular order. They also found that it's possible for hunters to be at different stages with different species of game that they may pursue. In addition, a hunter's role models, as well as the amount of hunting they are able to do, will impact on how quickly hunters progress through the various stages.
Click to expand...

Oh, I am quite certain that after 40 years of hunting, I would fit into Effinggoof's definition of "sportsman"... or yours. I just don't feel the need to belittle other hunters for their legal activities and priorities.
 
3macs1 said:
Nope . Do you even know what a true sportsman is defined as. Not from what I have seen.
Perhaps going back to the original hunters safety course data may help you which is based on a study recognized world wide since the late 70's

Be honest where do you fit right now.

The five stages of a HUNTER

Summary

Shooter Stage
Hunters at this stage simply want to do a lot of shooting, be it doves, ducks, squirrels, rabbits or even deer (in which case shooting opportunities are acceptable too). They want to test their shooting abilities, as well as that of their rifle or shotgun. These hunters are beginners and are often young as well.

Limiting-Out Stage
Eventually, simply burning through a lot of ammunition is no longer sufficient. Hunters at this stage still gain a lot of satisfaction from shooting, but now the number of birds or animals bagged becomes important too, and limiting-out, or filling a tag, is the gold standard.

Trophy Stage
Eventually the weight of the game bag becomes less important and the emphasis shifts from quantity to quality. Hunters at this stage gain satisfaction from being selective in taking game, such as a duck hunter who shoots only greenheads, a turkey hunter who only shoots long beards, or a deer hunter who takes only mature bucks. These hunters often travel long distances to hunt trophy animals.

Method Stage
For this hunter, taking game is still important, but more important is how that game is taken. True satisfaction comes from the method used to take game, with particular emphasis on more challenging methods such as archery or muzzleloading. This hunter will spend a lot of time scouting and using trail cameras, studying their quarry and practicing hunting skills such as calling and, in the case of a deer hunter, may even choose to target one specific animal.

Sportsman Stage
After many years in the field, the hunter begins to place the emphasis on the total hunting experience. Being in the outdoors, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing nature in all its beauty, now outweigh the need for taking game. These hunters often turn to mentoring other younger hunters for ultimate satisfaction.
Dr. Jackson and Dr. Norton found that not all hunters go through all of these stages, or in this particular order. They also found that it's possible for hunters to be at different stages with different species of game that they may pursue. In addition, a hunter's role models, as well as the amount of hunting they are able to do, will impact on how quickly hunters progress through the various stages.
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None of those stages is any more superior than the other. It is all legal hunting.
 
hoytcanon said:
Oh, I am quite certain that after 40 years of hunting, I would fit into Effinggoof's definition of "sportsman"... or yours. I just don't feel the need to belittle other hunters for their legal activities and priorities.
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Cool. But remember some have 40 years experience others have one year 40 times :)
 
3macs1 said:
Nope . Do you even know what a true sportsman is defined as. Not from what I have seen.
Perhaps going back to the original hunters safety course data may help you which is based on a study recognized world wide since the late 70's

Be honest where do you fit right now.

The five stages of a HUNTER

Summary

Shooter Stage
Hunters at this stage simply want to do a lot of shooting, be it doves, ducks, squirrels, rabbits or even deer (in which case shooting opportunities are acceptable too). They want to test their shooting abilities, as well as that of their rifle or shotgun. These hunters are beginners and are often young as well.

Limiting-Out Stage
Eventually, simply burning through a lot of ammunition is no longer sufficient. Hunters at this stage still gain a lot of satisfaction from shooting, but now the number of birds or animals bagged becomes important too, and limiting-out, or filling a tag, is the gold standard.

Trophy Stage
Eventually the weight of the game bag becomes less important and the emphasis shifts from quantity to quality. Hunters at this stage gain satisfaction from being selective in taking game, such as a duck hunter who shoots only greenheads, a turkey hunter who only shoots long beards, or a deer hunter who takes only mature bucks. These hunters often travel long distances to hunt trophy animals.

Method Stage
For this hunter, taking game is still important, but more important is how that game is taken. True satisfaction comes from the method used to take game, with particular emphasis on more challenging methods such as archery or muzzleloading. This hunter will spend a lot of time scouting and using trail cameras, studying their quarry and practicing hunting skills such as calling and, in the case of a deer hunter, may even choose to target one specific animal.

Sportsman Stage
After many years in the field, the hunter begins to place the emphasis on the total hunting experience. Being in the outdoors, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing nature in all its beauty, now outweigh the need for taking game. These hunters often turn to mentoring other younger hunters for ultimate satisfaction.
Dr. Jackson and Dr. Norton found that not all hunters go through all of these stages, or in this particular order. They also found that it's possible for hunters to be at different stages with different species of game that they may pursue. In addition, a hunter's role models, as well as the amount of hunting they are able to do, will impact on how quickly hunters progress through the various stages.
Click to expand...

I fit into all those stages depending on my mood and what I'm hunting and it's not necessarily that I started at Stage 1, sometimes I "regress" to that one. It certainly has nothing to do with being young or inexperienced.
If it's legal and fits into my own code of ethics, I could care less what anyone else thinks. And ethics sometimes trumps legality.
 
hoytcanon said:
Oh, I am quite certain that after 40 years of hunting, I would fit into Effinggoof's definition of "sportsman"... or yours. I just don't feel the need to belittle other hunters for their legal activities and priorities.
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Hey Hoyt....40 years of hunting??? Based on past photos you've posted, I was sure I had you correctly pegged as being a 30 something year old. Crap...I guess that crisp northern Ontario air keeps you much younger looking then the smoggy polluted crap we breath in down in Toronto!
 
3macs1 said:
Nothing to do with legal or not or superior IMO. Just shared what the experts etc define a sportsman as
What are you doing reading this anyway :) No coyotes to be shot
Merry Christmas by the way
Cheers
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The point that you are missing as are the "experts" you quote is that ethics are a personal measure..... Not you, your "experts" or effingoof or anyone else in this thread can define MY ethics for me..... Likewise I cannot define yours for you.....

I also second bearklr's post.... I don't fit into any of your categories.... I am a meat Hunter first and foremost... I have myself and two boys to feed and all 3 of us love wild game..... You may not consider it sporting, but if I see a grouse I am shooting it (or at least at it) whether that be flying, walking or posing 20 feet in front of me on the trail for a photo.....

Hoyt is absolutely right, this is the exact attitude that causes divisiveness.... I don't own a pointer or a flusher..... I get about 1/4 of the flushes that they get..... Should I consider them as poor sportsmen?...
 
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