Lets poke the beehive. 22LR Heavy barrels purly cosmetic for rifles under $1000

Sorry, been out and about all day. Phone app was crashing when I would type more then three letters...

Anyways, dizzy. I'm not arguing the science with you. It seems reasonable and logical and I am in no position to say what you are speaking of does not occur.

Guntech, almost every single person I have run into in a gun store is 100% confident a HB is guaranteed more accurate. Instead of the truth that it is only more likely to be a shooter.

Rabid points it out, with targets I might add that we are all seeing something a bit different.
"Theories are fun and all, but practical experience is contradicting your thesis"

Dizzy "Rabid ....Point well taken. It's a complex subject indeed....And one often not worth discussing
Over and out. "
Starting to see my side! I believe it is worth discussing as this is a firearms (specifically rimfire subsection) forum.

Grauhanen nailed it with the "There also seems to be an absence of information or posts about .22LR barrels and rotational torque. Of course an absence of information does not mean that it does not occur. Rather it's curious that there's a dearth of information about something ostensibly an important factor in .22LR accuracy."

Welcome to the rabbit hole of rime fire precision. I do believe that because of mass machining of the mid/low end rifles, creating poor bore and chamber quality. That is it a shot in the dark the get a "shooter" I agree that a heavy barrel will increase the odds in your favor or at least limit the amount of ammo testing needed to find what your rifle likes. I know I may have frustrated some of you. In the end I was trying to get across a heavy barrel will not 100% give you a better shooting rifle in 22lr rifles under $1000... Will it increase the chance, yes... Will you have to test less ammo, most likely...

I think I poked the hive enough now, I'm glad we have all settled.
 
I'm not reading the 9 pages of posts before mine but just dropping in to leave my 2 cents. I prefer a heavy barrel on asome .22s because it feels and points better for me when shooting off hand. Most .22s are very light in the front and feel whippy to me. I'm also a big guy. My heavy barreled, laminate stock savage mark ii weighs 7 and a half pounds scoped which feels just about perfect in hand.
 
Lucas269 said:
I'm not reading the 9 pages of posts before mine but just dropping in to leave my 2 cents. I prefer a heavy barrel on asome .22s because it feels and points better for me when shooting off hand. Most .22s are very light in the front and feel whippy to me. I'm also a big guy. My heavy barreled, laminate stock savage mark ii weighs 7 and a half pounds scoped which feels just about perfect in hand.
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Lol, appreciate the input. You will see in the first post that we are excluding personal shooter factors.
 
22 LR rifles and most handguns need a bit of patience from the shooter to get maximum performance. the reason is barrel time, the time it takes the bullet to travel the length of the barrel. heavy hitting handguns are starting to recoil while the bullet is still in the barrel, and this is the reason heavy slow bullets will have a higher point of impact than lighter, faster bullets. this phenomenon can then be applied to rimfire rifles, but in a slightly different sense. the heavier rifle will print a smaller group most of the time not because the barrel is stiffer, but more likely because the weight of the rifle adds stability while the bullet is moving down the barrel. hang a weight on the front sling point of a sporter to equal the playing field.
 
After 20 m rounds through a cz 452 varmint with sk std.
I can safely say if shooting at a bench it has been more accurate than a american (thinner Barrel). Shooting 200 plus in one session.
 
cliffmcc said:
After 20 m rounds through a cz 452 varmint with sk std.
I can safely say if shooting at a bench it has been more accurate than a american (thinner Barrel). Shooting 200 plus in one session.
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I would argue quality difference in bore and chamber. Not to mention there can be small things that the heavy barrel help the shooter do (from the extra weight, less fine movements pushing the gun around).

If I was a betting man I would put money on ANY cz over a ruger, every time.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
I would argue quality difference in bore and chamber. Not to mention there can be small things that the heavy barrel help the shooter do (from the extra weight, less fine movements pushing the gun around).

If I was a betting man I would put money on ANY cz over a ruger, every time.
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I think he's talking about a CZ American, not a Ruger American. That's actually about as close to a real world comparison as you're gonna get.
 
mikeystew said:
I think he's talking about a CZ American, not a Ruger American. That's actually about as close to a real world comparison as you're gonna get.
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yah absolutely, but did he use the same ammunition type in both guns? One may like it, one may not. We have discussed that here also. The HB may not be as picky and you may have to a bit more ammo testing with the regular profile barrel to find ammo it likes. Ammo varies barrel to barrel. It definitely is a good comparison. A better one is to find the ammo they both like and use them in respective guns. Then compare results. (I would also recommend a infrared thermometer to keep the barrels on the same playing field with heat)
 
Canadiankeeper said:
I disagree, I ignored the human input. That can make ANY rifle shoot like crap, or shoot well... If the person doesn't know how to shoot well, it doesn't matter how much the rifle costs. It will never reach its potential.

If you take a heavy barrel savage, CZ, Marlin, ruger, ect ect... Vrs a regular barrel. Strap them in to a rifle sled/vice. Take 5 shots, with 2 minutes between shots. None of those manufactured rifles will be guaranteed to group better then its heavy barreled counter part.
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I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would wait 2 minutes between shots lol. That to me right there makes the argument null and void lol. An over heated barrel will make a $500 rifle inaccurate, just the same as a $2000 rifle. Yes, you CAN wait multiple minutes between shots to cool down the barrel....but no one actually does lol unless:

A - You have way too much time on your hands

B - You're a sadistic person who likes to make up a story about a gopher's life before you shoot it

C - You're trying to prove that a sporter barrel has the exact same accuracy as a heavy barrel lol

All in all, I do agree with you. A heavy barrel does not automatically make a rifle more accurate. Not in sub-$1000 rifles or $10,000 rifles. There are other factors at play that make much more of a difference in accuracy. They're there for more of a "tacticool" look. However, if you take a two "identical" $500 rifles out to the gopher patch or gun range, one with a sporter barrel and one with a heavy barrel, I'd reckon that the heavy barrel would end up being more accurate after multiple rounds and a heated barrel. Granted, you'd never be able to test this, as there's many other issues that could cause inaccuracy (ie - chamber inconsistencies, human error, ammunition inconsistencies etc)
 
TDizzle said:
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would wait 2 minutes between shots lol. That to me right there makes the argument null and void lol. An over heated barrel will make a $500 rifle inaccurate, just the same as a $2000 rifle. Yes, you CAN wait multiple minutes between shots to cool down the barrel....but no one actually does lol unless:

A - You have way too much time on your hands

B - You're a sadistic person who likes to make up a story about a gopher's life before you shoot it

C - You're trying to prove that a sporter barrel has the exact same accuracy as a heavy barrel lol
All in all, I do agree with you. A heavy barrel does not automatically make a rifle more accurate. Not in sub-$1000 rifles or $10,000 rifles. There are other factors at play that make much more of a difference in accuracy. They're there for more of a "tacticool" look. However, if you take a two "identical" $500 rifles out to the gopher patch or gun range, one with a sporter barrel and one with a heavy barrel, I'd reckon that the heavy barrel would end up being more accurate after multiple rounds and a heated barrel. Granted, you'd never be able to test this, as there's many other issues that could cause inaccuracy (ie - chamber inconsistencies, human error, ammunition inconsistencies etc)
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...great, now I just got that weird look from people who have no idea why I just erupted in laughter at my computer for no reason.....
 
TDizzle said:
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would wait 2 minutes between shots lol. That to me right there makes the argument null and void lol. An over heated barrel will make a $500 rifle inaccurate, just the same as a $2000 rifle. Yes, you CAN wait multiple minutes between shots to cool down the barrel....but no one actually does lol unless:

A - You have way too much time on your hands

B - You're a sadistic person who likes to make up a story about a gopher's life before you shoot it

C - You're trying to prove that a sporter barrel has the exact same accuracy as a heavy barrel lol

All in all, I do agree with you. A heavy barrel does not automatically make a rifle more accurate. Not in sub-$1000 rifles or $10,000 rifles. There are other factors at play that make much more of a difference in accuracy. They're there for more of a "tacticool" look. However, if you take a two "identical" $500 rifles out to the gopher patch or gun range, one with a sporter barrel and one with a heavy barrel, I'd reckon that the heavy barrel would end up being more accurate after multiple rounds and a heated barrel. Granted, you'd never be able to test this, as there's many other issues that could cause inaccuracy (ie - chamber inconsistencies, human error, ammunition inconsistencies etc)
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I mean, that's fine if you don't want to read the whole thread before commenting.
This isn't about shooting gophers.
Everyone agrees a HB preforms better for long durations of constant shooting.
I'm not trying to prove that a sport barrel always has the same accuracy of a HB I'm just trying to prove the HB doesn't always have better accuracy then a sport barrel.
Everyone seems to think the heavy barrel is a more accurate rifle. When realistically it just will be less picky with ammo, better heat dispersion and less likely to reflect shooter error due to the extra weight.
Vice them in side by side, take 5 shots. No idea what one will be the better shot. No idea if either will like that type of ammo.
 
Lol I read the whole thread.

It doesn't have to be JUST shooting gophers. Can apply to target shooting as well. Most people aren't going to sit there waiting multiple minutes between shots is my point, which is a big advantage to the heavy barrel which would make it inherently more accurate than a sporter barrel (you excluded this at the beginning, I'm just pointing out that it is a big factor in why people purchase heavy barrel rimfires under $1000)

But yes, a heavy barrel is not ALWAYS more accurate than a sporter barrel. Same as a $2000 rifle isn't always more accurate than a $500 rifle, the most expensive ammunition isn't always better than the cheaper stuff, and men aren't always wrong (just, women are always right, at least according to my wife).

Anyway, MY point, is that these reasons - "When realistically it just will be less picky with ammo, better heat dispersion and less likely to reflect shooter error due to the extra weight." are what make a heavy barrel more accurate than a sporter barrel for your average guy looking to do some rodent hunting/plinking/target shooting. You can't just say "forget these things that make it better, and suddenly it's not better!" These reasons are why people buy heavy barrels on their sub-$1000 22LR :) :nest:
 
This thread is interspersed with talk of overheating barrels. Why? Who has experienced this as a result of shooting, not being out in the hot sun? Sporter barrel or bull barrel in .22LR will not overheat.
 
grauhanen said:
This thread is interspersed with talk of overheating barrels. Why? Who has experienced this as a result of shooting, not being out in the hot sun? Sporter barrel or bull barrel in .22LR will not overheat.
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Actually, if you're out in the field on a +30 day in a gopher patch, they can get quite hot.
 
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