is an antique worth the price for unrestricted carry?

[rjf1963]

In the letter from the RCMP posted by RRH.01 it clearly states that the "antique firearm" is indeed not legally considered to be a firearm at all.
It also states that it can be possessed without a license or a registration certificate.

However, it does require the owner to store the antique as though it were a firearm, per the RCMP storage regulations.

I'm no lawyer, but I can read, so to me this means carry it wherever you want. Same status as an air pistol with muzzle velocity under 500 fps, not a firearm.
If you use it like weapon, you will get charged as such. Just like an air pistol.

Fire retardant jump suit deployed.

Absolutely cannot carry wherever you want. There is clear information on transporting antique handguns (locked box can't see through etc) So unless your in an area that you can legally shoot it the gun is in transport and transport rules apply. Once you get to your legal to discharge a firearm area you can then open carry and shoot. Since in BC at least you cannot hunt with a handgun then while you are in or on a motor vehicle, atv etc you are back in handgun transport rules and it must be in a locked box etc etc

 

[Deuce-deuce]

Absolutely cannot carry wherever you want. There is clear information on transporting antique handguns (locked box can't see through etc) So unless your in an area that you can legally shoot it the gun is in transport and transport rules apply. Once you get to your legal to discharge a firearm area you can then open carry and shoot. Since in BC at least you cannot hunt with a handgun then while you are in or on a motor vehicle, atv etc you are back in handgun transport rules and it must be in a locked box etc etc

Closer... transport rules are for an antique handgun. As you said, locked opaque box. No trigger lock required.

 

[Meroh]

That is some terrible advice you believe in.

A permit for what? From whom?

A fire arm is not licensed for carry, the owner may be. Use it as a firearm, it is a firearm. Using it as a firearm, makes it a firearm, just as a pellet gun, paintball gun, blank gun are viewed as firearms when used as such; were thy not, I could use them with impunity in my city.

I don't give a #### about what anyone does, but at least, when one finds themselves in hot water, don't come whining back here. Every day I lament the lack of common sense, and often cite gun owners as being generally more intelligent that the average person. If you want to give the antis more ammo, you will just be dragging the rest of us down with you. You sound like a lawyer: remember that in court the lawyer on one side always looses.

 

[marshall]

There are a lot of strange info here, some good some not so good.
All I am going to add is that I have dealt a few over the years and last show had a couple young guys that wanted to look it over.
I asked them there age and to see a card.
They got on their high horse and told me I don't need to see it.
They could buy it and do what they wanted with it , because it is not a "handgun"
I told them in nice way they where full of ####. And then they put $2000.oo on the show case.
They still have their money, where they got it , I don't know, they where a couple smart ass's, Must have read up on Antiques I guess .

 

[fenceline]

A fire arm is not licensed for carry, the owner may be. Use it as a firearm, it is a firearm. Using it as a firearm, makes it a firearm, just as a pellet gun, paintball gun, blank gun are viewed as firearms when used as such; were thy not, I could use them with impunity in my city.

I don't give a #### about what anyone does, but at least, when one finds themselves in hot water, don't come whining back here. Every day I lament the lack of common sense, and often cite gun owners as being generally more intelligent that the average person. If you want to give the antis more ammo, you will just be dragging the rest of us down with you. You sound like a lawyer: remember that in court the lawyer on one side always looses.

A firearm user does not need to be licenced to possess or shoot an antique... unless the antique is permitted for use in hunting... then a hunting licence may be required.

The firearms act does not apply to antiques. The firearms act is what controls firearms licencing. Under 84 (3) CC, antiques are exempt from licencing.

Use does not make a firearm what it is. All firearms are legally defined by section 2 of the criminal code. The majority of those then go on to be further regulated by the firearms act... if the firearms act applies to them.

 

[Canuck44]

There are a lot of strange info here, some good some not so good.
All I am going to add is that I have dealt a few over the years and last show had a couple young guys that wanted to look it over.
I asked them there age and to see a card.
They got on their high horse and told me I don't need to see it.
They could buy it and do what they wanted with it , because it is not a "handgun"
I told them in nice way they where full of ####. And then they put $2000.oo on the show case.
They still have their money, where they got it , I don't know, they where a couple smart ass's, Must have read up on Antiques I guess .

They were right they could buy it without a license. You on the other hand had no obligation to sell it to them. Sounds like you made the right decision.

Take Care

Bob

 

[870P]

Agreed. I intend to visit both the RCMP and CO offices here in Terrace to ensure we all are on the same page. The local RCMP are pretty much up to date on the gun regs. The local Fed Fishery and CO's not so much.

You are right of course on the shotgun vs 41LC BUT as you know the shotgun may not be in hand when you need it. I tend to have both. 825fps and 195 gr bullet is well beyond pellet gun performance and will do well for everything but the larger Browns. I also have the option of getting a carry permit for bush carry. A 45 Colt would be one of my choices under a Carry Permit. The Antique route does work with the right revolver/caliber.

Take Care

Bob

195 grs at 825 fps is .38 Special +P territory dude, that's not really cutting it against a big dangerous animal.

 

[Canuck44]

195 grs at 825 fps is .38 Special +P territory dude, that's not really cutting it against a big dangerous animal.

Well Dude Black Bears are not much bigger than humans and the gun seemed to hold it's own back in the day. Nothing has changed much since then Dude. You turn their lights out or they bleed out. One thing it sure beats a Latte and flowers. A shotgun is the best but it may not be at hand. FYI ,38spl+P is around 850 fps using a 158 gr bullet (850 x 158 = 132 PF vs 825 x 195 = 160.9 PF) as a comparison. The Law says I can't carry any other handgun UNLESS I apply for a carry permit to cover me while I am panning for gold. For that I carry a 45 Colt stuffed into a Ruger BH. That gives me 900 fps using 255 gr bullet. Still low by shotgun standards but better than a latte and prayer beads.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Deuce-deuce]

Well Dude Black Bears are not much bigger than humans and the gun seemed to hold it's own back in the day. Nothing has changed much since then Dude. You turn their lights out or they bleed out. One thing it sure beats a Latte and flowers. A shotgun is the best but it may not be at hand. FYI ,38spl+P is around 850 fps using a 158 gr bullet (850 x 158 = 132 PF vs 825 x 195 = 160.9 PF) as a comparison. The Law says I can't carry any other handgun UNLESS I apply for a carry permit to cover me while I am panning for gold. For that I carry a 45 Colt stuffed into a Ruger BH. That gives me 900 fps using 255 gr bullet. Still low by shotgun standards but better than a latte and prayer beads.

Take Care

Bob

Let me guess, you shotgun is staggered buck and slugs

Comparing a bear that is bleeding out and a human is absurd.... down right dangerous for the topic at hand, really.... I'm aware that under ideal circumstances a bear isn't hard to kill. A bear attack whilst holding an antique handgun is hardly ideal circumstances... bears and humans react very differently when angry and being shot at. Humans are pu$$ys, bears aren't.

If the bears are thick I'd rather have spray and a long gun. Truthfully not a shotgun but it's what "they" want these days.

 

[TedNugent]

A hand gun labelled an antique is still a hand gun.
I sure wouldn't wish to be caught by a CO, RCMP or the like with one.

Agreed, I personally wouldn't risk it, Not even if I had an extra $50k in the bank to defend myself in court, which it could easily cost, plus losing the use of my firearms for potentially years, possible job loss, etc.

 

[870P]

Well Dude Black Bears are not much bigger than humans and the gun seemed to hold it's own back in the day. Nothing has changed much since then Dude. You turn their lights out or they bleed out. One thing it sure beats a Latte and flowers. A shotgun is the best but it may not be at hand. FYI ,38spl+P is around 850 fps using a 158 gr bullet (850 x 158 = 132 PF vs 825 x 195 = 160.9 PF) as a comparison. The Law says I can't carry any other handgun UNLESS I apply for a carry permit to cover me while I am panning for gold. For that I carry a 45 Colt stuffed into a Ruger BH. That gives me 900 fps using 255 gr bullet. Still low by shotgun standards but better than a latte and prayer beads.

Take Care

Bob

No need to get testy bro.

You can get quite a bit more out of the .38 through handloading or from one of the specialty ammo makers.

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38 Special P&Weight=200&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Anyway even your .45 Colt load seems light, the 300+ gr 1200+ fps +P hardcast loads exist for a reason.

 

[Canuck44]

Wrong on the guess. Slugs only. Your rifle with a scope is just the ticket for 7 yard shooting. Just the ticket! The CO's up here seem to prefer the shotgun with slugs as well. I assume that given that is what the CO was holding last fall down the street,waiting for a nuisance bear to wonder his way. He evidently didn't get your message about the bear spray.

The good news for you bear spray types is Black bears are pretty bashful and tend to prefer to be left alone. The ones I have encountered tend to just run off. Without a firearm of some type you get a real sense of loneliness and a desire to be somewhere else from my experience.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Canuck44]

No need to get testy bro.

You can get quite a bit more out of the .38 through handloading or from one of the specialty ammo makers.

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38 Special P&Weight=200&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Anyway even your .45 Colt load seems light, the 300+ gr 1200+ fps +P hardcast loads exist for a reason.

Not going to go there with my Ruger Flattop. The Super Redhawk is to heavy and big to be an effective carry piece.

Without a permit, I am stuck with the 41 Long Colt. As a back up it is way better than a rock and a prayer. I know what I can do with a six inch revolver at 7 - 10 yards, not so hot with a can of bear spray. FYI the closest encounter for me has been inside 7 yards and the Black bear wondered off. One Grizzly on our golf course. We retreated on our golf
cart and decided to spend the rest of the afternoon in the bar. The 41 LC would have been better than a putter. LOL

The 45 Colt load I quoted is all I can handle and get off one or two quick accurate shots with a SA revolver. I have shot the 460 and 500 and even with a brake they are a handful for me. I know fellows who do quite well with both, I know I can't.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Deuce-deuce]

Wrong on the guess. Slugs only. Your rifle with a scope is just the ticket for 7 yard shooting. Just the ticket! The CO's up here seem to prefer the shotgun with slugs as well. I assume that given that is what the CO was holding last fall down the street,waiting for a nuisance bear to wonder his way. He evidently didn't get your message about the bear spray.

The good news for you bear spray types is Black bears are pretty bashful and tend to prefer to be left alone. The ones I have encountered tend to just run off. Without a firearm of some type you get a real sense of loneliness and a desire to be somewhere else from my experience.

Take Care

Bob

I said nothing of a scope...

the co has no choice in what to use, he is told. If you read the post you attempted to quote you'll see I said "it's what "they" want...". No matter as the co was on the offence while we are talking defense.

Bear spray has limitations but it works. How do I know? I've used it to good effect.

There are far more black bear attacks than grizzly. I'm not sure what you're on about.

Bear bangers can also be an effective tool... I know they don't have the style and panache as a six shooter. But as long as you use that antique in a similar fashion you should be ok.

 

[Justins1877]

I personally think it’s worth it. I carry minde wherever a NR is allowed to be discharged. *Gasp*... even in a holster, loaded. If you live in BC, you’re not allowed to carry it hunting, as there is a barrel length requirement.

 

[Cameron SS]

In the letter from the RCMP posted by RRH.01 it clearly states that the "antique firearm" is indeed not legally considered to be a firearm at all.
It also states that it can be possessed without a license or a registration certificate.

However, it does require the owner to store the antique as though it were a firearm, per the RCMP storage regulations.

I'm no lawyer, but I can read, so to me this means carry it wherever you want. Same status as an air pistol with muzzle velocity under 500 fps, not a firearm.
If you use it like weapon, you will get charged as such. Just like an air pistol.

Fire retardant jump suit deployed.

The rcmp are routinely wrong. They summarize information to general communication purposes and in doing so make errors in the marginal cases. Rely on rcmp information at your peril.

How about this. YOU go down to the Antique Forum, and familiarize YOURself with what the actual laws are, and then answer your own question?
Just like in elementary school, you won't learn anything unless you do your own homework...

Still waiting for the write-up regarding the Antique carry in the bush with the RCMP/CO? Where did you read it? When?

R.

The laws for antiques are not on the antiques forum. They are publicly and freely available at the justice Canada website.

Not so. It is still a hand-gun, antique status or not. You would still need to have a carry permit, but you would not need to have it registered. I believe it would be legal to carry it empty, but you better only fire it a legal pistol range.

Don't believe me? Ask your local cops; call the CFO.

Do it, get caught, lose it, lose the rest of your guns, and in today's gun climate, likely go to jail.

Cops and cfo do not tell you the law. They tell you what they want you to do. Antiques are completely exempt from the laws requiring authorizations to transport or carry. If it is lawful to discharge firearms at that place, it is lawful to possess and carry loaded. Antiques are NOT exempt from Section 89 and are NOT allowed to be concealed.

If it is prohibited... it isn't antique anymore because now the firearms act is in play.

Can't be both. But can be altered to become prohibited if it falls out of spec with what makes it antique.

You are walking down two paths in the law... trying to apply two things at once.

Yes it can fall within both the definition of prohibited AND antique. If you were to go go conceal one in your trousers and then ask a cop if its legal you will notice you will be charged with carrying a concealed weapon, which will be listed on the information as a prohibited firearm, and while you may or may not be charged for unlicensed possession, you will not be convicted.

Antique is not a class on its own. It is a special status that can be applied to any firearm regardless of type and class.

They don't fall under two categories. They are either antique or they aren't.

If they aren't then the firearms act applies, and they are either NR, R or P.

Disagree as stated above. Antiques are only exempt from certain portions of the code, and for the sections that still apply, they are subject to the classification per 84(1).

 

[fraserdw]

If they can't get you on the Firearms act, they will get you on the wildlife act......

 

[Rman]

The rcmp are routinely wrong. They summarize information to general communication purposes and in doing so make errors in the marginal cases. Rely on rcmp information at your peril.


The laws for antiques are not on the antiques forum. They arebpublicly and freely available at the justice canada website.


Cops and cfo do not tell you the law. They tell you what they want you to do. Antiqies are completely exempt from theblaws requiring authorizations to transport or carry. If it is lawful to discharge firearms at that place, it is lawful to possess and carry loaded. Antiques are NOT exempt from Section 89 and are NOT allowed to be concealed.



Yes it can fall within both the definition of prohibited AND antique. Riddle me this batman. We both agree that antiques are subject to the transportation regs per s86(2) . What shall it be transported as? NR, R or prohib? There are no transport regs for antique and yet antiques are subject to those regs.

Antique is not a class on its own. It is a special status that can be applied to any firearm regardless of type and class.


Disagree as stated above. Antiques are only exempt from certain portions of the code, and for the sections that still apply, they are subject to the classification per 84(1).

Phew!!!! Sure glad that all got straightened out!!!

R.

 

[Deuce-deuce]

The rcmp are routinely wrong. They summarize information to general communication purposes and in doing so make errors in the marginal cases. Rely on rcmp information at your peril.


The laws for antiques are not on the antiques forum. They arebpublicly and freely available at the justice canada website.


Cops and cfo do not tell you the law. They tell you what they want you to do. Antiqies are completely exempt from theblaws requiring authorizations to transport or carry. If it is lawful to discharge firearms at that place, it is lawful to possess and carry loaded. Antiques are NOT exempt from Section 89 and are NOT allowed to be concealed.



Yes it can fall within both the definition of prohibited AND antique. Riddle me this batman. We both agree that antiques are subject to the transportation regs per s86(2) . What shall it be transported as? NR, R or prohib? There are no transport regs for antique and yet antiques are subject to those regs.

Antique is not a class on its own. It is a special status that can be applied to any firearm regardless of type and class.


Disagree as stated above. Antiques are only exempt from certain portions of the code, and for the sections that still apply, they are subject to the classification per 84(1).

There are transport regs for antique handguns... they're transported as such.

 

[maxman1]

Last I checked, .45 Colt was excepted from antique status.