Is the 10-22 really just a rimfire shooter's equivalent of the Toyota Corolla?
- Thread starter steelgray
- Start date
Same thing with the the Ruger PC carbine, including the introduction of this gun, shipping it with an indistinguishable 10 round Ruger a Pistol mag and making advertising claims about how both the Ruger pistol and PC carbine uses the same mag. It is like Ruger is screaming at the RCMP firearms labs to declare the Ruger pistol mag "a dual use mag" - and getting these limited to 5 rounds.
If Thureon - or anyone other than Glock - makes a carbine to use a Glock pistol mag, Glock isn't declaring the mag is intended for dual-use. If Ruger makes a carbine to use their pistol mags, as far as the RCMP might be concerned, they (Ruger) are declaring the Ruger pistol mag to be "dual use". Hi Point also made exactly the same mistake about a decade ago. The relevant RCMP bulletin even uses Hi-point case as an example. The law is all about intent; here most-specifically as declared by the manufacturer. How can Ruger be so stupid TWICE?
If Thureon - or anyone other than Glock - makes a carbine to use a Glock pistol mag, Glock isn't declaring the mag is intended for dual-use. If Ruger makes a carbine to use their pistol mags, as far as the RCMP might be concerned, they (Ruger) are declaring the Ruger pistol mag to be "dual use". Hi Point also made exactly the same mistake about a decade ago. The relevant RCMP bulletin even uses Hi-point case as an example. The law is all about intent; here most-specifically as declared by the manufacturer. How can Ruger be so stupid TWICE?
In the case of the Ruger PCC the pistol mag is limited to 10 rounds which is absolutely legal.
In the case of the Ruger 10/22 the prohibited mag had 25 round capacity which was unlawful for the Ruger Charger pistol. Different story.
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
No 10/22 are not Corolla’s. If Corollas were as terrible as Ruger 10/22’s no one would own them.
10/22’s are so inaccurate they are nearly useless. Seriously the horrendous accuracy makes them junk.2.5” at 50 yards is useless for target practice and most hunting applications.
It’s only dishonesty that keeps the Ruger 10/22 in production.
10/22’s are so inaccurate they are nearly useless. Seriously the horrendous accuracy makes them junk.2.5” at 50 yards is useless for target practice and most hunting applications.
It’s only dishonesty that keeps the Ruger 10/22 in production.
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
But Ruger has sold millions of these rifles.
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
Yep because no one admits they are as accurate as a slingshot.
Because, conceptually, the 10/22 is like an AR in its ability to be customized and personalized....
And that's obviously true: just look at how many CGN'ers recently bought stripped AR receivers, so as to later build them up to their individual liking...
Plus, a "stock" Norinco AR is about as accurate as a stock 10/22....
The 10/22 is more like the Honda Civic, if you are talking about the base model in factory configuration... but of course not all 10/22's are created equal... and many 10/22's are not "really" 10/22's, but rather 10/22 "platforms..." having little to no Ruger parts in them. I have been shooting stock 10/22's for close to 50 years and customized (to varying degrees) 10/22 rifles for 30 years... I have had some very accurate rifles right out of the box, the word "accurate" being used in a general sense equalling 1" @ 50 yards, not 1/4" bench rigs... I have had some custom 10/22's that were much better than that... and the rifle that got me interested in the 10/22 was an old version walnut deluxe model, before they were called "Deluxe" models... that rifle was a consistent 1/2 MOA rifle, and I can't hazard a guess at how many grouse we headshot with it. When the kids were growing up and shooting a lot with me, we did many, many builds together and shot countless bricks of ammo, at the "X-ring" and also at a myriad of "fun" targets... my nieces and nephews loved coming out to the farm, because they were always able to get in some shooting time at our home range, eggs (when the hens were cooperating) and clay pigeons were favourite targets. A few of our many builds;
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Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Blaming ruger for the RCMPs contrived interpretation of Canadian magazine laws. Thats a new one.
Why do it again? Because Ruger probably doesnt care about Canada, which accounts for about 3% of its sales.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Dishonesty on the part of 10/22 owners. Ruger never claimed the 10/22 was a 1/2 MOA gun. Only owners with buyers remorse and 2x the price of the gun in after market upgrades keep the 10/22s flying off the shelf.
Are 10/22s like a corolla? Hardly. More like a Ford Pinto that somehow earned the cult following of the MGB.
I bought a Ruger 10-22 deluxe carbine 27 years ago. It was the most inaccurate rifle i have ever owned. I tried a
variety of ammo and the results were the same 3" at 50 yards on a good day. It spent the next decade at the back of the gun safe.
About 15 years ago I rediscovered it and thought I should do something with it.
I replaced the factory barrel with a Green Mountain Barrel. I modified the trigger and sear to get the
trigger pull down to around 3.5 pounds and head-spaced the bolt from .055" t0 .043". What an improvement.
The new barrel was fussy about ammo but worked well with the right ammo.
But I never liked the look of the flutes and missed the sights.
The Ruger Barrel had been sitting on my tool box in my shop for several years. I took
the barrel and machined a slug that would fit in the chamber so I could measure where the rifling started.
According to Sammi specs the bullet was .060" away from the rifling when chambered. I chucked the barrel
in my lathe and I removed .090" from the breach face and from the face the contacts the receiver.
The bullets now will engage the rifling by .030" when chambered.
I re-cut the extractor groove in the barrel with a slitting saw and touched it up with a file.
I removed the Green Mountain Barrel and reinstalled the factory barrel and made a trip to the range.
I can't believe the difference. The factory barrel now consistently shoots well under an inch with bulk ammo.
The wind was gusting fairly hard at the range so that could have effected my accuracy.
The 10 shot group below is .900" and was shot with Federal American Eagle 40 grain at 50 yards.
If it wasn't for the 2 fliers it would be under 1/2".
Terry
variety of ammo and the results were the same 3" at 50 yards on a good day. It spent the next decade at the back of the gun safe.
About 15 years ago I rediscovered it and thought I should do something with it.
I replaced the factory barrel with a Green Mountain Barrel. I modified the trigger and sear to get the
trigger pull down to around 3.5 pounds and head-spaced the bolt from .055" t0 .043". What an improvement.
The new barrel was fussy about ammo but worked well with the right ammo.
But I never liked the look of the flutes and missed the sights.
The Ruger Barrel had been sitting on my tool box in my shop for several years. I took
the barrel and machined a slug that would fit in the chamber so I could measure where the rifling started.
According to Sammi specs the bullet was .060" away from the rifling when chambered. I chucked the barrel
in my lathe and I removed .090" from the breach face and from the face the contacts the receiver.
The bullets now will engage the rifling by .030" when chambered.
I re-cut the extractor groove in the barrel with a slitting saw and touched it up with a file.
I removed the Green Mountain Barrel and reinstalled the factory barrel and made a trip to the range.
I can't believe the difference. The factory barrel now consistently shoots well under an inch with bulk ammo.
The wind was gusting fairly hard at the range so that could have effected my accuracy.
The 10 shot group below is .900" and was shot with Federal American Eagle 40 grain at 50 yards.
If it wasn't for the 2 fliers it would be under 1/2".
Terry
I usually bring a .22 to the range with me for some trigger practice while I wait for the centre-fire barrels to cool.
Last summer I brought my 1992 vintage 10-22 .22 it has a Hawke IR 3x9x40 scope mounted on it.
The scope has a reticle with points on it for different yardages on it up to 200 yards.
I was using Federal AutoMatch bulk ammo. I emptied 2 10 round mags rapid fire at 100 yards using a front rest and a rear bag.
A 2 1/2" 20 shot group at 100 yards from a almost stock 10-22. Made my day!
Terry
Last summer I brought my 1992 vintage 10-22 .22 it has a Hawke IR 3x9x40 scope mounted on it.
The scope has a reticle with points on it for different yardages on it up to 200 yards.
I was using Federal AutoMatch bulk ammo. I emptied 2 10 round mags rapid fire at 100 yards using a front rest and a rear bag.
A 2 1/2" 20 shot group at 100 yards from a almost stock 10-22. Made my day!
Terry
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
I sure agree on that one! Did some major massacres with me black gun in the early 90's in the Water Valley & Bottrel areas of Alberta. Never had so much pest removal fun in me life.
Yeah...I'd say more of a "Honda Civic" if 98% of Honda Civics rolling off the line are duds. Which clearly, they're not. A better example might be that they're the "1970s-1980s Jeep CJ" of rifles. Fun to look at, poor driving experience, windshields always leak, heater barely works, and they're usually in the shop about once a month. Ask me how I know. Never left me on the side of the road, but I'll only go back to those gems when I finally decide that I hate having any money in the bank.
I might not have an opinion had I not got a total lemon myself (brand new). I've shot others, most recently a "take down" and honestly, I think of 10/22s as toys really. If a bone-stock gun costing that much has a trigger that terrible and such poor accuracy...why bother? I think the love for these guns and all the squawking about high capacity mags for them go hand-in-hand. That ruling was ridiculous and unwarranted btw, but 10 inaccurate shots vs. 25+ at a time? lol
Anyhow, I knew their reputation when I sprung for one years ago as I couldn't believe the amount of hype about them. It was standard carbine, metal trigger guard, etc. Liked the look of it, it gobbled-up every ammo type I tried..but came with a crooked barrel (When sighting down it) and couldn't reliably hit a pop can from 40 yards. Off a rest, 2 different scopes, dozen ammo types. Every other gun I'd owned up until that point, and every gun since...has shot SIGNIFICANTLY better, and at least a few them cost less than 1/2 as much.
Never left me on the side of the road, but I'll only go back to those gems when I finally decide that I hate having any money in the bank. I might not have an opinion had I not got a total lemon myself (brand new). I've shot others, most recently a "take down" and honestly, I think of 10/22s as toys really. If a bone-stock gun costing that much has a trigger that terrible and such poor accuracy...why bother? I think the love for these guns and all the squawking about high capacity mags for them go hand-in-hand. That ruling was ridiculous and unwarranted btw, but 10 inaccurate shots vs. 25+ at a time? lol
Anyhow, I knew their reputation when I sprung for one years ago as I couldn't believe the amount of hype about them. It was standard carbine, metal trigger guard, etc. Liked the look of it, it gobbled-up every ammo type I tried..but came with a crooked barrel (When sighting down it) and couldn't reliably hit a pop can from 40 yards. Off a rest, 2 different scopes, dozen ammo types. Every other gun I'd owned up until that point, and every gun since...has shot SIGNIFICANTLY better, and at least a few them cost less than 1/2 as much.
Yeah...I'd say more of a "Honda Civic" if 98% of Honda Civics rolling off the line are duds. Which clearly, they're not. A better example might be that they're the "1970s-1980s Jeep CJ" of rifles. Fun to look at, poor driving experience, windshields always leak, heater barely works, and they're usually in the shop about once a month. Ask me how I know.
I might not have an opinion had I not got a total lemon myself (brand new). I've shot others, most recently a "take down" and honestly, I think of 10/22s as toys really. If a bone-stock gun costing that much has a trigger that terrible and such poor accuracy...why bother? I think the love for these guns and all the squawking about high capacity mags for them go hand-in-hand. That ruling was ridiculous and unwarranted btw, but 10 inaccurate shots vs. 25+ at a time? lol
Anyhow, I knew their reputation when I sprung for one years ago as I couldn't believe the amount of hype about them. It was standard carbine, metal trigger guard, etc. Liked the look of it, it gobbled-up every ammo type I tried..but came with a crooked barrel (When sighting down it) and couldn't reliably hit a pop can from 40 yards. Off a rest, 2 different scopes, dozen ammo types. Every other gun I'd owned up until that point, and every gun since...has shot SIGNIFICANTLY better, and at least a few them cost less than 1/2 as much.
I have been reading your 10/22 hate for years, but it seems to be based on a very small sample size... my experience with 10/22's runs into triple digits, and it is not nearly the negative, unpalatable experience that you seem to have had... partially because I started my experience with the platform before you were born, and back then they were a different gun... as with all mass produced rifles from pretty much every company, they have been dumbed down over the years to increase profit margins, but so have equivalent rifles from all of the other manufacturers. In general, I find your criticisms biased... I am NOT a lover of the 10/22, nor do I feel any need to defend it, but I can certainly appreciate what it brings to the table, of those factors the biggest bonus has nothing to do with the 10/22 itself, but rather it's popularity and the overwhelming aftermarket support industry that has developed around the platform... the 10/22 and its owners support countless businesses that sprang up with neat and innovative products to tweak it's design, style and accuracy... how is this bad for shooting sports in general? As for the gun itself, the Ruger rotary magazine is an absolute engineering marvel in its simplicity, durability and functionality… the magazine alone is reason to own one... yes, it sucks that our RCMP decision makers are a bunch of anti-gun political clowns, that clearly have no common sense... it would be nice to have access to hi-cap mags again (I built a TUF22 for that purpose). In addition, the claims of marvelous accuracy from "out-of-the-box" 10/22's have certainly been embellished by some, but the flip side of that coin is that the inherent "inaccuracy" has also been embellished by others... IME, the average 10/22 is a reasonably accurate, highly functional plinking rifle and casual (fun) target rifle for those that are not into teeny-tiny paper groups... the kicker is that Ruger has designed the rifle with intentionally LOOSE tolerances, they recognize that the platform will be used by a wide variety of people, for a wide variety of purposes and using a wide variety of ammunition... it has to function properly within all of those parameters... and it does... but those parameters also erode its accuracy potential, this is the unavoidable trade off... hence the aftermarket "tweaking" that goes on to refine individual rifles for individual purposes... people, often yourself, speak of these "necessities" for aftermarket tweaking to achieve better accuracy as a "negative" thing... I do not see it that way... the tweaking only ads to the enjoyment of the entire shooting experience, and goes to support and entire industry... and how many new and young shooters have been intrigued and captivated by the increasing charm of there ever changing, ever improving 10/22 rifles... it certainly got my three kids out to the range, and my nieces and nephews and all of their friends. what do you suppose the long range ripple effects are of that for shooting sports down the road when ballot boxes open and inked "X's" are made?
IMO, we should support shooting sports and the introduction of new shooters to shooting sports, and like it or not, the 10/22 has done far more than its share of adding to our fold... of course there are other options from other companies, I support those as well and the debate will always be around on which is "best," or "most" accurate. The 10/22 is a good little gun, and it is relatively rare to get a truly bad one.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Well put hoyt.
I've tweeked my fair share of 10/22's over the years and the buggers take well to proper & proven mods. The 10/22 would be better called "The small block Chevy of .22 semis."
Easy on the pocket book & reliable in stock form, but super in potential with all the aftermarket goodies & tweek methods out there for 'em.
I've tweeked my fair share of 10/22's over the years and the buggers take well to proper & proven mods. The 10/22 would be better called "The small block Chevy of .22 semis."
Easy on the pocket book & reliable in stock form, but super in potential with all the aftermarket goodies & tweek methods out there for 'em.
I guess thats a good enough analogy. They cost a little more and if taken care of they work a little better too. As for the magazine thing just get 6 or more factory ones. I like the fact the magazine fits flush with the stock and was selling/trading my high capacity mags even before there was rumour of a ban. I dunno maybe im just some far out old man! As for cars I prefer an Accord.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Me too on the magazine deal. As fer me car, it's an HHR that works best as I use 'er to haul crap to the dump & and it's a neat little ride that suits me dog & I perfect fer gettin' around.
No offence at all intended; I just had to adjust the spacing in your post for my eyes....
