Ruger Scout 308 vs 450 - Deer Rifle

Butcherbill said:
Well I have an sks that shoots 3”-3.25” groups with Norinco white box, my scout still shoots better groups. Has better irons and mounts an optic easier but you and I already know it lol.
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You're lucky. Out of 5 SKS rifles picked at random, how many can be counted on to deliver that with 5 shot groups lol. But yeah...in no way is it superior to the Ruger unless you're a poor. And even then its still a crap choice lol. Buy a Savage or something. Still think the Ruger American in 7.62 is 10x the rifle the SKS is...unless you're a prepper or militiaman haha
 
Joel said:
Here we go with paying over double what anyone with a brain would pay for a box of ammo and cherry picking the data as if its the only load on the market again lol.

I'd pay the extra $1500 to not have to hunt with an SKS too.

Unless it comes with a cool rice paddy hat and some ho chi minh sandals maybe. might as well look the part. Those tiny little notch and post irons must be sooo good at low light hunting too.

1770 ft/lbs at 100 yards. Whats the 7.62x39 getting there with again? lol with the one load you're cherry picking to put up against the loads you're cherry picking for the 308...
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You're the guy that says it isn't fair to compare 150 and 180 grain factory loads between the 303 and shorty 308.
 
MiG25 said:
You're the guy that says it isn't fair to compare 150 and 180 grain factory loads between the 303 and shorty 308.
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I did?

I don't remember that but if I did I change my mind. Go ahead. There are some comparisons where the 303 Brit wins.

Like the ones in that short list of 150s.

It can't beat the 168s and 180 vs 180 its still coming in second place. But in the narrow circumstance of comparing 150gr PPU to some 180gr 308 win rounds...I bet its faster.

More energy? Dunno havent run the numbers. But faster.

Congrats it not a total loser :)
 
Given the "out of stock" status all over the place?

No one has to give the Rugers away lol.
 
Joel said:
Why?

Why are we stuck with 150gr? Lets stop the cherrypicking. This isn't a fair fight.

168s at 2550+ are gonna beat it.

175s at 2500+ probably will do.

The test quoted is hardly extensive and if you can handload to 2700-2800 fps from the 16" barrel with a 150 (and yep, you can) there must be factory loads that can come close to or beat the PPU 150gr 303 Brit.

But even if there aren't, okay take that as a win...and forget all about the heavier 308 Win loads that beat it, from a 7" shorter barrel?
Click to expand...

Not fair to compare 150 grainers.
 
Joel said:
You're lucky. Out of 5 SKS rifles picked at random, how many can be counted on to deliver that with 5 shot groups lol. But yeah...in no way is it superior to the Ruger unless you're a poor. And even then its still a crap choice lol. Buy a Savage or something. Still think the Ruger American in 7.62 is 10x the rifle the SKS is...unless you're a prepper or militiaman haha
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It didn’t always shoot those groups, shimming the action cut group sizes in half. Amazing what some beer can shims at the recoil lug and crossbolt will do for accuracy, I still wouldn’t hunt with it unless I was real hard up. There’s so many better choices, even my No.4 sporter shoots better groups than an sks. Better ergos, a real safety, can shoot further. Why handicap yourself with an inferior rifle when hunting, not knocking the ole sks but man there’s just way better options.
 
MiG25 said:
Not fair to compare 150 grainers.
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Oh, you misunderstand.I said the opposite. It isn't a fair fight, so don't try to make it one by cherrypicking and sticking the 308 with the worst loads possible.

Its like saying "OK you hit harder, and you're faster, so you have to tie one hand behind your back..."

Sure, if you wanna call that a win, go for it lol. You keep ignoring the 308 offerings that do better than that and trying to make a fair fight out of what isn't by comparing best against worst.

Cool...but there's more 308 offerings out there than the worst.

So no, I never said what you think I did.
 
Butcherbill said:
It didn’t always shoot those groups, shimming the action cut group sizes in half. Amazing what some beer can shims at the recoil lug and crossbolt will do for accuracy, I still wouldn’t hunt with it unless I was real hard up. There’s so many better choices, even my No.4 sporter shoots better groups than an sks. Better ergos, a real safety, can shoot further. Why handicap yourself with an inferior rifle when hunting, not knocking the ole sks but man there’s just way better options.
Click to expand...

Well done on the shimming! Its a really cool battle rifle for its time period and its fun.

Bottom barrel hunting rifle IMO. It works. Bout the nicest thing I can say for it in that role lol
 
Joel said:
Oh, you misunderstand.I said the opposite. It isn't a fair fight, so don't try to make it one by cherrypicking and sticking the 308 with the worst loads possible.

Its like saying "OK you hit harder, and you're faster, so you have to tie one hand behind your back..."

Sure, if you wanna call that a win, go for it lol.
Click to expand...

So Remington, Hornady, Nosler and Federal Premium in the traditional bullet weights (150 and 180) are the worst loads possible.

It's amazing, and you guys even seem to be claiming there is some sort of pride of ownership in the Ruger (which reminds me a lot of the Yugo Mauser, which is the bottom of the barrel)
 
I must be lucky. The Rugers I've had were great. Yes I was proud of owning them. Would be proud to own another. Its probably as amazing to you as someone advocating the SKS as a choice hunting rifle or thinking the 7.62x39 can hang with 308 Win LOL.

I've had Yugo Mausers and Zastavas and no longer do lol.

And yes, also just in limiting this to 150 and 180 is already manipulating the data as it is lol.

I'm also pretty sure, depending on the rifle and its individual rifle there would be 150 and 180 grain loads that beat the performance of the ones in that test of one rifle.

If Winchester White box 147gr FMJ can do it....

But we're still ignoring the 168s entirely. Wonder why :)
 
Gatehouse said:
I was pretty sure you weren't going to answer the question Laugh2
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I'd take an East German or unrefurbished Soviet Letter Series over the Ruger. I'd take the Ruger over a Chinese SKS (including the D that for some odd reason people seem to like).
 
MiG25 said:
I'd take an East German or unrefurbished Soviet Letter Series over the Ruger. I'd take the Ruger over a Chinese SKS (including the D that for some odd reason people seem to like).
Click to expand...

Honestly why that shot up in value so much is beyond me too. Especially when there are so many detachable mags for regular SKS...
 
MiG25 said:
With 3" of barrel the 303 beats the 308. And yeah, not beating the 303 British is the definition of suck, it's only been around since 1888 and was originally a black powder cartridge.
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some old AF Imperial Sabre Tip 150gr from a 18.7" Ruger 308, in sub zero temps even :

Code: 
[TABLE="width: 1088"]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - [B]Average[/B]
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][B]2819.22[/B]
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[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2845.75[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
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[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2780.88[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]64.86[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
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[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.01[/TD]
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[TD]Shot ID[/TD]
[TD]V0[/TD]
[TD]V4[/TD]
[TD]V75[/TD]
[TD]V125[/TD]
[TD]V175[/TD]
[TD]V250[/TD]
[TD]Ke0[/TD]
[TD]Ke4[/TD]
[TD]Ke75[/TD]
[TD]Ke125[/TD]
[TD]Ke175[/TD]
[TD]Ke250[/TD]
[TD]PF4[/TD]
[TD]Proj. Weight[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2781[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2771[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2597[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2575[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2556[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2245[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]415.65[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]150[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1/24/22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14:14:07[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2831[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2820[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2643[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2669[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2649[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2326[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]423[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]150[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1/24/22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14:14:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2846[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2836[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2655[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2696[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2678[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2346[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]425.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]150[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1/24/22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14:14:36[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
hah, it pays to keep good notes

308 Win, 18.7" Ruger, Winchester 120gr PDX1 hollow points

Code: 
  [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - [B]Average[/B][/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"][B]3060[/B][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][B]fps[/B][/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"][/TD]
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[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3075[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
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[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3044[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
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[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 2"]Stats - Std.   Dev[/TD]
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[TD]V0[/TD]
[TD]V4[/TD]
[TD]V75[/TD]
[TD]V125[/TD]
[TD]V175[/TD]
[TD]V250[/TD]
[TD]Ke0[/TD]
[TD]Ke4[/TD]
[TD]Ke75[/TD]
[TD]Ke125[/TD]
[TD]Ke175[/TD]
[TD]Ke250[/TD]
[TD]PF4[/TD]
[TD]Proj. Weight[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3075[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3061[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2799[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2625[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2519[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2495[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2087[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1835[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]367.32[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]4/16/20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]17:58:44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3044[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3030[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2775[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2607[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2468[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2445[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2051[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1810[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]363.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]4/16/20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]17:59:13[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3061[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3047[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2791[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2496[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2473[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2075[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]365.64[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]4/16/20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]17:59:27[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Joel said:
Here we go with paying over double what anyone with a brain would pay for a box of ammo and cherry picking the data as if its the only load on the market again lol.
Click to expand...

While I don't agree with the sentiment that a short barrel 308 is no better than an SKS, $100/box is far from double the cost right now. I just paid $50/box for Hornady American Whitetail, and nosler is usually significantly more expensive than that.

It's crazy, but $100/box once you add the tax probably isn't far off.


Just to add to all this, I always assumed 303 Brit factory ammo used Lee enfields for their velocity testing, so 25.6" barrels or whatever they are? I just checked Winchester and Remington and didn't see a specific barrel length listed though. (Hornady lists 24" but only has a 150gr load, 2685fps)
 
How much velocity drop is there really between a 18” and 16” 308 barrel?
And more importantly for my purposes does it change anything for a 100 yard deer rifle?
Does it even change anything for a 200 yard deer rifle.
My guess is no.

The reason the scout appealed to me in the first place was how compact it seemed.
I have carried 20” 308s in the bush and when doing so always thought I’d prefer a more compact setup (ideally lighter too however it seems that the scout may be close to the same weight as some of the 20” options)

If Tikka had a short barrelled light compact 308 I’d be considering that too.
Ruger also makes the Hawkeye Compact which look nice and arguably probably better fitted for what I’m looking for.
 

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