Ruger Scout 308 vs 450 - Deer Rifle

According to the Federal Online Ballistics calculator, at 100 yards the Remington 150gr load is 32 fps faster than the S&B 123gr SP and the Nosler 150 Accubond is 41 fps faster.

The S&B 7.62x39 load breaks 2500fps in an SKS.

Know what crushes the short Barreled 308? A $150 Parker Hale 303 with 22 inch barrel. It beats every single 150 or 180 grain load in the 16" or 18.8" in Bartells test with PPU 150 grainers or Remington 180 grainers.
 
Seeing as suppressors aren’t legal in Canada, a .450BM is only better than a .308 at one singular thing; starting conversations. It’s right up there with very high cut jean shorts in that regard.

I quickly found that faster cartridges (>2500fps muzzle) outperformed slower ones (sub-2200fps impacts) by a large margin in my adventures. This was known for more a hundred years and shouldn’t have been a surprise.

Americans however still like bores over .375, and dislike recoil more than they’d like to admit, so we end up with these slow big bores clinging to a market share.
 
So admitting we're talking about the slowest possible choices in the 308 vs the absolute best possible choice in 7.62, and completely avoiding the 168s etc where the little cartridge just gets curbstomped, how are those 150gr energies looking at 100 yards, again? 150?

And again with the caveat that its the absolute best you can get out of the x39 and the absolute worst you can get out of the 308 Win.

The 303 Brit "crushes" a 168 grain bullet at 2550 fps or a 178 at 2500?

By how much?

40% more energy like a 7.62x39 vs 308 crushing, or...like 5%? lol
 
The short barrelled 308 is a turd that you just keep trying to polish.

The 303 PPU 150gr BT beats the Nosler 308 load by more than 200 fps, it'll never catch up.
 
If its such a turd why are we so focused on its worst performing options and completely ignoring the many better choices? :)

Because it mauls the 7.62x39?

Because it ties or bests 303 brit?

BTW, I compared a (guessing here) .370 BC, 150gr bullet at 2690 FPS (is that what the PPU is doing from the 22" barrel?) to a .490 BC 168gr 308 bullet at 2560 FPS.

Guess which one is winning at 100 yards and beyond? I'll give ya three tries lol
 
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The 22" PH beats every 150 and 180 grain 308 load listed.

You sure need a lot of whatabouts for the the short barrelled 308 to beat the SKS as a deer rifle.

I'd say a chronograph is mandatory for anyone with a short barrelled 308.
 
MiG25 said:
The 22" PH beats every 150 and 180 grain 308 load listed.

You sure need a lot of whatabouts for the the short barrelled 308 to beat the SKS as a deer rifle.

I'd say a chronograph is mandatory for anyone with a short barrelled 308.
Click to expand...

lol

The 308 is going to beat the 5 MOA iron sighted, janky optics mounted, terrible triggered carbine in every measure except expense and I suppose recoil, but even then, with any bullet chosen lol. Accuracy? Check. Power? Check. Availability? Check....and on. So the SKS wins for poors I guess? Go past your oft-repeated "but the Nosler!" argument and the 7.62 is being utterly humiliated. If we're gonna be advocating 7.62x39 hunting rifles we might as well at least give up the delusions of them being comparable to 308s and get one thats not a poor hunting rifle like a bolt action. My Ruger Ranch has a 16" barrel and posts 2400 fps with a 123gr bullet and actually shoots groups not patterns. Costs about what an SKS does these days too. Ready for optics that is lol.

The whatabouts are on your side, cherrypicking the 308 bullets your choices don't lose to and ignoring all the others.

Really doubt the 150gr PPU beats *any* 180gr from a 308 too lol.
 
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We're also now discovering patheticness of "But a cartridge with just about the same capacity and a 7 inch longer barrel beats it"

1) I dang well hope it does lol.

2) Except for all the times it doesn't.

And know what crushes a 22 inch barreled 303? A 22 inch barreled 308 lol. But OP ain't talkin about a 22" barreled anything.

(which still loses to 308 Win from much shorter barrels anyway lol)
 
MiG25 said:
Know what crushes the short Barreled 308? A $150 Parker Hale 303 with 22 inch barrel
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Here's a big string of Canadian Ranger 174gr ammo from an Lee Enfield. Whatever barrel length the Rangers issued rifles had, probably 22" I'd guess :

Code: 
  [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Total number of shots[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]37[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units velocity[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units distances[/TD]
[TD]m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units kinetic energy[/TD]
[TD]ft-lbf[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units weight[/TD]
[TD]grain (gr)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - [B]Average[/B][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][B]2326[/B].41[/TD]
[TD][B]fps[/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2380.87[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2276.41[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104.46[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.2[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

jordan-5.jpg
 
The Ruger is pushing $2k with taxes and with every 150gr load tested has a velocity advantage at 100 yards over the SKS of 30-40 fps.

The Remington 303 180 grainer beats every 308 180 grainer bartell had listed in a 16 or 18.8" barrel. The PPU 150 grainer beats every 308 150 grain load bartell has in a 16 ot 18.8" barrel.

Those who don't know any better choose a short barreled 308.

The Ruger is the Yugo Mauser of Sporting Rifles and the short barreled 308 is a turd.
 
todbartell said:
giphy.gif


Here's a big string of Canadian Ranger 174gr ammo from an Enfield. Whatever barrel length the Rangers issued rifles had, probably 22" I'd guess :

Code: 
  [TABLE]
  [TR]
   [TD="width: 64"]Total number of shots[/TD]
   [TD="width: 64, align: right"]37[/TD]
   [TD="width: 64"][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD="colspan: 3"]                                                             [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Units velocity[/TD]
   [TD]fps[/TD]
   [TD][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Units distances[/TD]
   [TD]m[/TD]
   [TD][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Units kinetic energy[/TD]
   [TD]ft-lbf[/TD]
   [TD][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Units weight[/TD]
   [TD]grain (gr)[/TD]
   [TD][/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD="colspan: 3"]                                                             [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Stats - [B]Average[/B]
[/TD]
   [TD="align: right"][B]2326[/B].41
[/TD]
   [TD][B]fps[/B]
[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
   [TD="align: right"]2380.87[/TD]
   [TD]fps[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
   [TD="align: right"]2276.41[/TD]
   [TD]fps[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
   [TD="align: right"]104.46[/TD]
   [TD]fps[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
   [TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
   [TD="align: right"]23.2[/TD]
   [TD]fps[/TD]
  [/TR]
 [/TABLE]
Click to expand...

Sounds like sh*tty Made in Quebec ammo.
 
MiG25 said:
The Ruger is pushing $2k with taxes and with every 150gr load tested has a velocity advantage at 100 yards over the SKS of 30-40 fps.

The Remington 303 180 grainer beats every 308 180 grainer bartell had listed in a 16 or 18.8" barrel. The PPU 150 grainer beats every 308 150 grain load bartell has in a 16 ot 18.8" barrel.

Those who don't know any better choose a short barreled 308.

The Ruger is the Yugo Mauser of Sporting Rifles and the short barreled 308 is a turd.
Click to expand...

Let's see how many people get in line to hand in their overpriced hunting rifle for an SKS now that you've illuminated us all lol.

Care to place bets?

I really don't see how the Remington 303 Brit 180 load is beating every 308 180 grain load...but whatever you say.

And with the 7.62x39 comparisons, I'd really, really focus on those 150 grains too and try to ignore just how wrong I was whenver the 308 starts to get heavier than 150...Then there's still that over 30% more energy thing...
 
todbartell said:
giphy.gif


Here's a big string of Canadian Ranger 174gr ammo from an Lee Enfield. Whatever barrel length the Rangers issued rifles had, probably 22" I'd guess :

Code: 
  [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Total number of shots[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]37[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units velocity[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units distances[/TD]
[TD]m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units kinetic energy[/TD]
[TD]ft-lbf[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Units weight[/TD]
[TD]grain (gr)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - [B]Average[/B][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][B]2326[/B].41[/TD]
[TD][B]fps[/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2380.87[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2276.41[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]104.46[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.2[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

jordan-5.jpg
Click to expand...

The No 4 Mk 1 is a 25.1" barrel ain't it?

Wonder how much slower that means its goin from a 22" lol.

Anyone have a chrony reading of even the PPU 150gr from a 22"?

The Remington 180 gr? Cause i bet its about 2400 fps tops. And that's supposed to beat a 308 with a 180? Oohhhkay...

That Remington better be fast....PPU 174 averages about 2370 fps from a full length Lee Enfield lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysTSDr6kF4k
 
The PPU 303 150gr SPBT averages 2660fps from a 22" barrel, this is the cheapest 303 ammo and it beats every 150gr 308 load in a short barrel.

From Bartell's test:

"308 Win, Remington CoreLokt 150gr PSP ~ 2820 fps claimed
16.1" Ruger m77 ~ 2496 fps

308 Win, Remington CoreLokt Ultra Bonded 150gr ~ 2820 fps claimed
18.8" Ruger m77 ~ 2545 fps

308 Win, Hornady American WT 150gr SP ~ 2820 fps claimed
18.8" Ruger m77 ~ 2651 fps

308 Win, Nosler TG 150gr Accubond ~ 2875 fps claimed
16.1" Ruger ~ 2446 fps"

The Remington 303 180 grainer average 2460fps. This beats every 180 grain load in Bartell's test of short barrels:

"308 Win, Federal Premium 180gr Nosler Partition ~ 2570 fps claimed
18.8" Ruger m77 ~ 2424 fps

308 Win, Federal Premium 180gr Trophy Bonded Tip ~ 2620 fps claimed
18.8" Ruger m77 ~ 2441 fps"

To be fair, the short barreled 308 does beat Federal's craptastic 303 180 grain load.
 
So once again...The 303 Brit with PPU 150gr beats the worst choices of factory 308 Win loads and loses to plenty others.

I'll go as far as it takes 7" of barrel to beat a hamstrung 308 and start losing as soon as the cherry picking ends.
 
The round nose 303 Core Lokt load averages exactly what the box claims? magical coincidence - Do you own a chronograph or radar Mig?

303 British 180gr round nosed Core Lokt @ 2460 fps MV
100y velocity - 2145 fps / energy 1839 ft lbs
300y velocity - 1592 fps / energy 1012 ft lbs

308 Win 180gr Federal Nosler Partition spitzer @ 2424 fps MV (16.1" Ruger)
100y velocity - 2258 fps / energy 2038 ft lbs
300y velocity - 1947 fps / 1514 ft lbs
 
Joel said:
So once again...The 303 Brit with PPU 150gr beats the worst choices of factory 308 Win loads and loses to plenty others.

I'll go as far as it takes 7" of barrel to beat a hamstrung 308 and start losing as soon as the cherry picking ends.
Click to expand...

Show me a 308 150 grain factory load that in a 16 or 18.8" Ruger beats the PPU 150 gr SPBT in a $150 Parker Hale. None of Bartell's test loads did, nor my Hirtenberger in a 17.7" barrel.
 
MiG25 said:
Show me a 308 150 grain factory load that in a 16 or 18.8" Ruger beats the PPU 150 gr SPBT in a $150 Parker Hale. None of Bartell's test loads did, nor my Hirtenberger in a 17.7" barrel.
Click to expand...

Why?

Why are we stuck with 150gr? Lets stop the cherrypicking. This isn't a fair fight.

168s at 2550+ are gonna beat it.

175s at 2500+ probably will do.

The test quoted is hardly extensive and if you can handload to 2700-2800 fps from the 16" barrel with a 150 (and yep, you can) there must be factory loads that can come close to or beat the PPU 150gr 303 Brit.

But even if there aren't, okay take that as a win...and forget all about the heavier 308 Win loads that beat it, from a 7" shorter barrel?
 
todbartell said:
The round nose 303 Core Lokt load averages exactly what the box claims? magical coincidence - Do you own a chronograph or radar Mig?

303 British 180gr round nosed Core Lokt @ 2460 fps MV
100y velocity - 2145 fps / energy 1839 ft lbs
300y velocity - 1592 fps / energy 1012 ft lbs

308 Win 180gr Federal Nosler Partition spitzer @ 2424 fps MV (16.1" Ruger)
100y velocity - 2258 fps / energy 2038 ft lbs
300y velocity - 1947 fps / 1514 ft lbs
Click to expand...

"But with the Nosler 150..."
 
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