Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last

Spencer said:
.......it's good to know that not everyone here is a miserable doom and gloom merchant:)
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Spencer, you may be misinterpreting some of the comments on here as doom and gloom, or negative in nature.
After having gone through this thread several times, I only see genuine interest as well as concern by those members who have previous experience going through exactly what your doing.

The fact is your experience to date is different, and the inconsistancies are in of themselves unusual, based on Stencollectors (and other members) recent experiences.
Doesn't neccessarily mean your current experiences are wrong, just unusual.
I for one would hate to see anything negative happen to you, or with all the work you have done as a result.

We also tend to get wary, because any negative results from something of this nature could reflect badly for all of us by those who are not part of our community. But enough said of that.....

Bottom line is, I do hope that everything goes in your favour, and would like nothing more than to hear that you receive an FRT/Cert in the near future.
 
tiriaq said:
What diameter bolt did the Sarco kits accept? What parts were included in the kit?
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It's been a while but I remember they were just a tube with threads on the front & the coller on the back. all the places for slots were eched but not cut
out. This was a brand new tube, it was made to acept a standard
MK II bolt and barrel. you also had to weld the lower trigger housing if I remember? It was like building a model.
I believe all the parts were there minus the bolt,barrel & mags. I think?
The only thing is I don't know what the law on making a new gun from scatch would be?
 
If the kit accepted a standard bolt, it would not be acceptable under today's rules in the US. Prior to '86, such a kit could have been used to make a legal, federally registered submachinegun. There were many such tubes being sold - there still are - but a tube sized for an original bolt cannot be made into a legal privately owned Sten, either semi or full, in the US. Sale of kits like Sarco's was not illegal. Usually there was, and is, a disclaimer to the effect that the item is sold with the understanding that all federal laws will be observed.
CatCo was a major supplier of this sort of thing. They even marketed a semi auto gun that was open bolt. The original bolt was altered so that when cocked the boltface was just behind the cartridge in the magazine. The gun could not be made to fire auto with light loads - if the bolt recoiled enough to feed, the sear would catch it. The trigger mechanism was modified for semi only. Problem was that if the tip of the disconnector was cut off, the gun would be full auto. Consequently, the Catco semis have been ruled to be machineguns and subject to US federal controls. There are a number of other designs that suffered a similar fate. The Spitfire carbine was another one that was reclassified.
Thousands of parts kits from demilled guns have been imported into the US. The last ones allowed in could not have barrels, the barrel mount had to be cut, and the receivers had to be cut three times with 1/4" wide torch cuts at places specified by BATFE.
US law is much more rigorous in some respects than Canadian. This is why the BD38 and BD3008 can be sold here, but not in the US.
 
Long ago, I found this on the LIBERATORCREW website about how to turn a selector switch into a safety:

Safety_from_selector_switch.jpg


After checking, this particular page is lo longer valid :(

Anyway, if the design is good it might be a nice addition to a Sten project, no?


PS All credit for this idea and drawings go to the people who own THELIBERATORCREW.COM website


J. Savoie
 
That is a clever way of incorporating a safety into the trigger mechanism. As mentionned in the notes, the receiver tube must be cut so that the tripping lever is kept in the centre position.
I was thinking of a different system that would achieve the same end - blocking foreward movement of the tripping lever. Weld a block to the inside left wall of the trigger housing so that when the tripping lever is shifted to the left it is blocked from moving foreward. This would give a safety position, and also render the auto position inoperative.
Either of these methods should work with either open or closed bolt systems.
 
Spencer said:
I have learnt a lot by building it, so whatever happens the project has served at least the main part of it's purpose. If my cert does come through I will PM you the details of the modifications so you can at least make a sten that does not look like someone has had a dump in the tube. The doomers can submit their own designs:)
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Spencer
I don't think you have learned (not learnt) to either spell, nor listened at all to those with more experience than you in these matters. You think my sten looks like someone took a dump in the tube....why not quit contaminating my SAS-3 thread with your amateurish attempts at both engineering and legal interpretations and go start your own thread. I suspect it will be a dead end in about 3 months anyway.
 
Personaly the pics of stencollectors sten looks very nice to me!

I wonder what we could do to convince the powers that be to just allow us to be able to shoot the legal guns we have again!
It's pretty ridictulas when a person can't shoot a mod. 41 S&W target pistol
just because it has a 4" barrel!

What about an online pettition?

The product of an liberal idot in charge!
Where's the tollerance liberals???? :slap:
 
A 4" or 12(6) pistol can be taken to a range. ATTs cover any restricted firearm or prohibited handgun. The 12(2,3,4,5) prohibs are the ones for which a SAP for shooting can no longer be obtained.
Apart from grandfathering, this is one of the advantages of these reproduction firearms. A 12(3) Sten cannot be fired, while one like Stencollector's SAS3 can go to a range under a standard ATT.
 
You cannot get a SAP to take your FN or AK to a range. No problem with a PPK. Your ATT should cover it. Read the conditions on the ATT. If it does not cover you PPK, or any other prohib. handgun, contact your CFO and get it changed.
 
There are challenges ongoing to the 12(2,3,4,5) SAP situation. The Gov't could fix this administratively but has chosen not to do so. The situation has been brought to Mr. Day's attention. I suspect that it is a non-issue for the government because there are so few individuals affected, relatively speaking. And they know that someone affected by the no SAP situation isn't going to vote Liberal because of it.
The prohibited longarms you mentionned are prohibited by name. The Sten is not, they are 12(2) or 12(3) so a semi auto repro. is shootable. Your only shootable AK option is one of the Valmets.
 
stencollector said:
Sgtmajor: I think you need to add another membership to your bottom line. Go have a browse on http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/
These guys are having an effect, and any membership money spent there is accountable and effective.
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I was thinking of it. I see that CSSA. Members can participate in the Defensive pistol shoot at the firing line with out additional charge's I think?
I'll check the web site. Thanks
Your going to Selkirk aren't you?
 
SGTMAJSTEVE said:
I was thinking of it. I see that CSSA. Members can participate in the Defensive pistol shoot at the firing line with out additional charge's I think?
I'll check the web site. Thanks
Your going to Selkirk aren't you?
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If you are talking about the CGN funshoot in April, then you bet. And I'll bring out the semi auto sten too.

There will also be a match at John Hipwells (Wolverine Arms) in Virden this weekend. There is not really a place in this match for the sten (it needs a rifle, a shotgun, and a couple handguns) so I guess it will stay home.
 
If your Norinco is a 12(5) prohib, the only way to take it to a range would be a) with a SAP for display purposes only, shooting specifically not being allowed, or, b) illegally.
Stencollector - would it make any sense at all to put a pistol grip butt on your SAS3 and shoot it as a pistol?
 
tiriaq said:
If your Norinco is a 12(5) prohib, the only way to take it to a range would be a) with a SAP for display purposes only, shooting specifically not being allowed, or, b) illegally.
Stencollector - would it make any sense at all to put a pistol grip butt on your SAS3 and shoot it as a pistol?
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Initially, I am not sure the other guys would be happy with that. Then again, with the pistol grip, the sten loses it's stability, but the look cool factor goes up through the roof.

Re the Norinco, how close is the registered receiver to a SKS D or a CZ58? It might be possible to transplant everything to one of those receivers, and then you would have a non-prohib. One of the local MG collectors was griping that we were all shooting our AR-15s in a match, and his M-16 couldn't come out to compete. I told him he could change the lower receiver for less than $300, transplant everything but the sear, and he could take it to the range again.
 
I'm assuming that a Norinco 87 is the RPK version, so it is prohib. as an AK variant.
While there isn't really any mechanical similarity between an SKS and an AK, I suppose that the complete barrel assembly could be adapted one way or another, and Armedsask has shown that an SKS receiver unit can be disguised to appear AKish.
Replacing the M16 lower receiver would be easy and cost effective. The M16 lower is retained to maintain 12(3) status. This would be in the same category as transplanting all the parts from a M14 onto a M305 receiver. A friend just bought a M305 so that his TRW M14 can be put to use.
Shouldn't be too hard to make up a Cdn II* pistol grip butt, seeing as they were armourer made from standard stocks to begin with. Your SAS3 with pistol butt would likely outshoot most of the conventional pistols. Even if you only shoot for honours, it would be fun.
 
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