Kipplauf Club

[jjohnwm]

220 grain with a five pound gun...........................major ouch!

Indeed, no interest in that from me! 165gn going 2900+fps deliver plenty of felt recoil imo ,

Well, after all, it is a hunting rifle. It's not like anybody would be plinking 50 or 100 rounds per session with it. I have plenty of guns that are test-fired enough for confidence, sighted in, the trajectory confirmed out to whatever distances I think I will need...and then they might not be shot again until just before a hunt, and then only enough to confirm that zero has remained stable.

The old chestnut about heavy recoil making accurate shooting much more difficult is true, but it's mainly in cases of extended shooting strings. A big boomer can be shot as accurately as a popgun, for at least a few shots...likely far more than will be needed on a hunt. It's only when one tries to maintain that accuracy for shot after shot after shot over an extended session that the problem rears its head.

I like shooting at least a handful of 12ga slugs at least a couple times per week, just to keep my shoulder and brain acclimated to how it feels. That relatively cheap practice keeps you tuned up for recoil, so that you can effectively ignore it...not for long, mind you, but certainly long enough to put a few accurate shots into a critter when you need to. The longer you do this, the more shots you can take before it starts to wear on you. You should always stop before reaching that point, to avoid developing the dreaded flinch.

 

[DGY]

Well, after all, it is a hunting rifle. It's not like anybody would be plinking 50 or 100 rounds per session with it. I have plenty of guns that are test-fired enough for confidence, sighted in, the trajectory confirmed out to whatever distances I think I will need...and then they might not be shot again until just before a hunt, and then only enough to confirm that zero has remained stable.

The old chestnut about heavy recoil making accurate shooting much more difficult is true, but it's mainly in cases of extended shooting strings. A big boomer can be shot as accurately as a popgun, for at least a few shots...likely far more than will be needed on a hunt. It's only when one tries to maintain that accuracy for shot after shot after shot over an extended session that the problem rears its head.

I like shooting at least a handful of 12ga slugs at least a couple times per week, just to keep my shoulder and brain acclimated to how it feels. That relatively cheap practice keeps you tuned up for recoil, so that you can effectively ignore it...not for long, mind you, but certainly long enough to put a few accurate shots into a critter when you need to. The longer you do this, the more shots you can take before it starts to wear on you. You should always stop before reaching that point, to avoid developing the dreaded flinch.

I would add there is also the potential of shoulder injuries and/or chronic injuries!

 

[track]

Well, after all, it is a hunting rifle. It's not like anybody would be plinking 50 or 100 rounds per session with it. I have plenty of guns that are test-fired enough for confidence, sighted in, the trajectory confirmed out to whatever distances I think I will need...and then they might not be shot again until just before a hunt, and then only enough to confirm that zero has remained stable.

The old chestnut about heavy recoil making accurate shooting much more difficult is true, but it's mainly in cases of extended shooting strings. A big boomer can be shot as accurately as a popgun, for at least a few shots...likely far more than will be needed on a hunt. It's only when one tries to maintain that accuracy for shot after shot after shot over an extended session that the problem rears its head.

I like shooting at least a handful of 12ga slugs at least a couple times per week, just to keep my shoulder and brain acclimated to how it feels. That relatively cheap practice keeps you tuned up for recoil, so that you can effectively ignore it...not for long, mind you, but certainly long enough to put a few accurate shots into a critter when you need to. The longer you do this, the more shots you can take before it starts to wear on you. You should always stop before reaching that point, to avoid developing the dreaded flinch.

My Merkel 9.3x74R double rifle, I'm shooting 250 grain Nosler accubonds with 32 pounds of recoil. I regulated the barrels myself with 40 handloads to complete the task. When I arrived home my wife inquired, "what's with nervous twitch?" My rifle is called the "Petite Frame", it's lighter than most conventional double rifles in this chambering. It's great for carring, but not-so-fun at the range.

 

[jjohnwm]

My current 9.3x74R double is a Brno; in the past I owned a Merkel SxS double but it was a .30-06. It was also a user-adjustable-regulation model and I would still own it today but for that chambering. That small-frame Merkel would have been an absolute dream rifle for me...in 9.3...but as a .30-06 it's long gone now.

The Brno also features DIY barrel regulation, although it's an OU. I think I used about twice as much ammo as track did to get it regulated...but I spaced it out over 3 days. Again, it's important to become comfortable with the gun. That means only shooting it as long as you remain relaxed and sharp, and absolutely stopping before you begin to shake and rattle and roll. The more often you shoot it...the longer each session can comfortably last...but there is always a limit and it must be respected.

If you want a double or singleshot hunting rifle to also serve as a range rifle or plinker, then buy a .308 or .243 or whatever, or work up a light plinking handload for your .45-70 or 9.3x74R or Nitro Express. Expecting a bigbore hunting rifle to function as a fun high-volume plinker, with the same ammo...is not realistic for the vast majority of shooters in the vast majority of cases. But that certainly doesn't mean that a big-bore singleshot or double isn't worth having.

I have always had the feeling that a Kipplauf is intended to be a small- or medium-caliber rifle, rather than a an actual bigbore. So the 9.3, or perhaps a .375, is pretty close to the maximum limit. And when you're at that limit, you're pretty much past the point of a lightweight rifle that can comfortably be shot for extended periods. But that''s okay; first and foremost, a Kipplauf is a hunting rifle.

 

[conor_90]

^ why do I want to raid your safe more everytime you post?

My kipp shoots 200 grainers, I'm still alive.

The irons were dead on too, until the rear sight flew off and hit me in the forehead.

Between that and the shotgun I had doubling when I removed the safety and gasping open my thumb I'm a bit twitchy these days when I shoot a new gun for the first time

 

[jjohnwm]

^ why do I want to raid your safe more everytime you post?

My kipp shoots 200 grainers, I'm still alive.

The irons were dead on too, until the rear sight flew off and hit me in the forehead.

Between that and the shotgun I had doubling when I removed the safety and gasping open my thumb I'm a bit twitchy these days when I shoot a new gun for the first time

That's another good point to keep in mind...not the part about stealing my guns (what are you, a Liberal?), but rather the example of the sight coming off. The bigger the cartridge, the more power being transmitted not only to the shoulder of the shooter, but also through the stock of the gun. And as a gun in any given chambering is made lighter and lighter, the recoil will get faster and faster, and the abuse being heaped upon bolts, screws, scope mounts, optics, etc. will get worse and worse.

No less a personage than the inimitable Jeff Cooper wrote about the inadvisability of high-volume shooting of a true high-powered big-bore rifle for this reason. I don't recall what he said about recoil as it affects the shooter, but he talked about the recoil of big-bores beating up the guns at a much higher rate than would be seen in small- and medium-bores. While he didn't particularly mention weight if I recall correctly, simple physics tells us that a lighter gun in any given chambering will recoil more and eat itself up even faster.

It's not uncommon to lose front sight hoods, poorly-mounted iron sights, or even scopes and rings in extreme cases. Another good reason to wear eye protection...maybe even a hockey helmet!

 

[DGY]

That's another good point to keep in mind...not the part about stealing my guns (what are you, a Liberal?), but rather the example of the sight coming off. The bigger the cartridge, the more power being transmitted not only to the shoulder of the shooter, but also through the stock of the gun. And as a gun in any given chambering is made lighter and lighter, the recoil will get faster and faster, and the abuse being heaped upon bolts, screws, scope mounts, optics, etc. will get worse and worse.

No less a personage than the inimitable Jeff Cooper wrote about the inadvisability of high-volume shooting of a true high-powered big-bore rifle for this reason. I don't recall what he said about recoil as it affects the shooter, but he talked about the recoil of big-bores beating up the guns at a much higher rate than would be seen in small- and medium-bores. While he didn't particularly mention weight if I recall correctly, simple physics tells us that a lighter gun in any given chambering will recoil more and eat itself up even faster.

It's not uncommon to lose front sight hoods, poorly-mounted iron sights, or even scopes and rings in extreme cases. Another good reason to wear eye protection...maybe even a hockey helmet!

Well that is what happened with my Withworth express rifle in 458 win mag, when I to the rifle the rear sight island was off the barrel… later I found out that the front sight was holding bu nothing, managed to fix them but it took a few tries for the front sight… the rifle is only 9lbs! The stock had a few little issues as well that I had to pin and epoxy back together! Now it seems to be fine, at least with the 350gn loads, not sure about the 500gn load, I don’t think I really want to shoot those again

 

[conor_90]

Another fun example of this is a Tikka t3 in 338 win mag with a skinner peep that weighed not a whole lot ejecting its grip cap at some point, probably when I was shooting 300 grain woodleighs out of it.

The haenel sight was epoxied on. I might reattach it with black loctite, but I'm scared my gorilla hands and brain will not get it as perfectly straight as the German gun warlocks did. Absolutely dead on with the "classic" 196 grain 8x57 jrs load. Almost like they intended for them to be more than just window dressing.

I might just start wearing a helmet all the time, it can't hurt at this point.

Maybe gun grabbing is too far, how do I get into the will though?

DGY that Whitworth sounds awful. I can take it off your hands if you need, I'll even cover shipping

 

[DGY]

Another fun example of this is a Tikka t3 in 338 win mag with a skinner peep that weighed not a whole lot ejecting its grip cap at some point, probably when I was shooting 300 grain woodleighs out of it.

The haenel sight was epoxied on. I might reattach it with black loctite, but I'm scared my gorilla hands and brain will not get it as perfectly straight as the German gun warlocks did. Absolutely dead on with the "classic" 196 grain 8x57 jrs load. Almost like they intended for them to be more than just window dressing.

I might just start wearing a helmet all the time, it can't hurt at this point.

Maybe gun grabbing is too far, how do I get into the will though?

DGY that Whitworth sounds awful. I can take it off your hands if you need, I'll even cover shipping

I might take it out of the safe on Monday for a first bear hunt of the season… the guy I go with “65cutless” likes big guns and I’m sure he will have one of his big bore rifle too so may as well lol!

 

[mikeyb]

Looks like the Vortex Nation guys just did a pod on the topic. The K95 is obvious, but the others are neat as well.

 

[DGY]

Looks like the Vortex Nation guys just did a pod on the topic. The K95 is obvious, but the others are neat as well.

Watched that last night… it was good enough to keep me watching lol, but there is a lot more to stalking rifle than what they covered IMO! Still it was good to see something different from them!

 

[mikeyb]

Watched that last night… it was good enough to keep me watching lol, but there is a lot more to stalking rifle than what they covered IMO! Still it was good to see something different from them!

Yep, agree. The podcast in general is pretty good though, mostly because they've been doing it a while and have decent chemistry. Feels less forced than, say, Hornady or Weatherby podcasts. They also gave the world the 6.5 ##### Cat.

 

[track]

Looks like the Vortex Nation guys just did a pod on the topic. The K95 is obvious, but the others are neat as well.

I'd take that Heeren over the Blaser K95!

 

[DGY]

The Merkel k5 ready to hit the range! Scoped rifle, sling, one round coming in at 6lbs 12.6oz

 

[track]

The Merkel k5 ready to hit the range! Scoped rifle, sling, one round coming in at 6lbs 12.6oz
View attachment 946691

Congrats, beautiful rifle! Stay away from the 220 grainers, or you will bequeathed a nervous twitch. This year I'm using my Kipplauf for hunting mule deer. I only killed one big game animal with a single shot and wish to persue more in the future.

 

[DGY]

Congrats, beautiful rifle! Stay away from the 220 grainers, or you will bequeathed a nervous twitch. This year I'm using my Kipplauf for hunting mule deer. I only killed one big game animal with a single shot and wish to persue more in the future.

I would like to get a caribou this fall with it! I’ve shot a few moose with ruger no1’s, but this feel so much better in my hands, balance, LOP, weight etc just a better fit for me!

 

[m1008]

Nice, uncommon aristocrat at reliable

 

[jjohnwm]

That TCR/Aristocrat single is an odd bird, very much middle of the pack. I had one with a couple of barrels, and IMHO it was head and shoulders superior to the much better known Encore and Contender also made by TC. Looked much better, handled better, shot at least as well, just a far, far nicer rifle. Mine was the basic TCR, not the aristrocrat, and had only the single trigger which was okay but not great. I paid about the same for mine as an Encore would have commanded at the time. I quite liked the gun, but...the overall feel and perception of quality reminded me much more of the Encore rather than even the lower-Euro-end Haenel. Honestly, a current Henry single shot would be preferable to me.

Me shooting the Encore: "Shoots pretty good, but...looks and feels like a 2x4. I think I've worked my way through this infatuation."

Me shooting the TCR: "Okay...I guess...nice enough gun, shoots pretty well...but...meh..."

Me shooting the Haenel...or the Effect: "Aaaaaah!" The smile is silent.

I've never had a high-grade single, and won't be changing that, but...I'm satisfied with what I have.

 

[DGY]

Went to the range today to sight in the Merkel with its scope, using different ammo but the last group was with 165gn federal fusion. The group was ok, 1.5” 5 shot group, most of the spread is my fault, need more practice with that light of a rifle! Still managed to hit a few 8” steel plates at 200m! I’m sure the groups will closed in with practice and reloads!
One interesting thing is I bought a box of nosler 165gn balistic tip ammo and some of the rounds needed two strikes to let the bullet fly, weird since none of the other ammo did that, not even the cheapest Remington coreloct.
Anyway, the rifle is a pleasure to shoot and a handle really well!
Forgot to say that the wind was crazy, 30km/h, gusting to 50km/h so maybe it wasn’t all my fault for the large group

 

[DGY]

Now I need to decide on what bullets to use for reloading, I want to use 165gn, I have on hand some TTSX so I might start with that! I don’t want to hot rod the loads for that rifle but find something that will be easy to shoot and accurate!