I don't think this is a good discussion anymore Jerry. I don't remember you claiming to be an expert or insulting other people's hard work or denigrating a particular discipline or saying anything is easy about what you or they are doing. There are obviously people here with enormous ego resting on conventional knowledge and conventional ways of doing things being right. Rather than being curious, they deny and try tearing a guy down. What is one to do to have a decent dialogue with such, deny the evidence of his own eyes, measuring instruments and experience? Swallow things whole? You and I both know that is the last thing a good teacher would want you to do. I'm too old and I've been around too long to have any time for that cr*p, and if that is what being a champion in shooting is about, benchrest or otherwise, then I have no interest in it, and no respect for it. My favourite definition of an expert: "X is an unknown quantity and spurt is a drip under pressure."
What is a 'printed action' 'trued action'?
- Thread starter cath8r
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
WR, "We" Savage owners (in case you didn't understand in the previous post)and shooters are a rapidly growing group of very happy customers. Pity, there isn't equity stock for Savage the company. I bet it would be doing pretty darn good as an investment.
It's different and there has been decades of negative feelings towards the platform. Due in large part to it being different with no aftermarket support until recently. Hard for that level of belief to be changed in a few short posts.
Plus it's "SO DARN UGLY". Me likes Ugly me guess.
As for my investment in funds, you are right, I have spent a few thousands over a dozen rifles (NOT a few thousands PER rifle). My most recent shooter had a grand investment of $900 (less if I didn't get an aftermarket trigger and stock) so that is pretty darn good value for any beginner to get involved.
That's the rifle that shot that silly 200yd 3rds group in the zero's. Yep, one superb group. NO, not the usual group size but it has a bunch more that are 1/2" and under at 200yds. I won't bother with the MOA as I am sure the math is wrong. As would be my caliper...
That's the 223 that I have been blasting out to a mile. More crazy nonsense!!!!
My 6.5 Mystic rifle minus the scope cost less then many custom actions MINUS the trigger group. I built my own stock so saved a few bucks there.
Value? if there is a way to get a rifle to shoot this well for less money, I WANT to know about it.
Here is a blog I wrote for another website. Pricing listed in the article is in US$ as that is the main audience. Breaks it down for what one of my project rifles cost.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/long-range-rig.php
At any rate, the body of evidence of satisfied users is large and growing by the barrel swap. There are many sites with posts of these many happy users.
Don't believe us? Sure, that's anyones right.
But until you try, don't say it can't be done or isn't being done...
Jerry
It's different and there has been decades of negative feelings towards the platform. Due in large part to it being different with no aftermarket support until recently. Hard for that level of belief to be changed in a few short posts.
Plus it's "SO DARN UGLY". Me likes Ugly me guess.
As for my investment in funds, you are right, I have spent a few thousands over a dozen rifles (NOT a few thousands PER rifle). My most recent shooter had a grand investment of $900 (less if I didn't get an aftermarket trigger and stock) so that is pretty darn good value for any beginner to get involved.
That's the rifle that shot that silly 200yd 3rds group in the zero's. Yep, one superb group. NO, not the usual group size but it has a bunch more that are 1/2" and under at 200yds. I won't bother with the MOA as I am sure the math is wrong. As would be my caliper...
That's the 223 that I have been blasting out to a mile. More crazy nonsense!!!!
My 6.5 Mystic rifle minus the scope cost less then many custom actions MINUS the trigger group. I built my own stock so saved a few bucks there.
Value? if there is a way to get a rifle to shoot this well for less money, I WANT to know about it.
Here is a blog I wrote for another website. Pricing listed in the article is in US$ as that is the main audience. Breaks it down for what one of my project rifles cost.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/long-range-rig.php
At any rate, the body of evidence of satisfied users is large and growing by the barrel swap. There are many sites with posts of these many happy users.
Don't believe us? Sure, that's anyones right.
But until you try, don't say it can't be done or isn't being done...
Jerry
Seems to me that to rebarrel a "dozen plus" Savages with an aftermarket barrel and including gunsmith time is more than a few thousand bucks.
Well, as mentioned prior, I am not the expert, never claimed it to be. I wouldn't suggest for a minute that an accurate rifle can be built for under $1,500. You can certainly re-barrel a Savage for under $1,500, I don't dispute that.
My point remains the same, like it or not, accuracy costs. Now depending on what your definition of accuracy is, rebarreling a Savage may meet your definition of accuracy. In the long run, beginners are better served by spending a little more, rather than trying many times to "make a Savage shoot" and getting frustrated as all heck. That is best left to people that want to experiment.
In Canada, trying to build an accurate rifle (whatever that means, something better than factory accuracy I am surmising, but less than benchrest accuracy) stock, trigger, barrel, action combo, and gunsmith time is going to be very difficult for under $1,500. I will stick with my lack of expert pedigree, and can only suggest that a little independent advice, from competent gunsmiths and component suppliers, will advise you if it is achievable.
Ian Robertson of Robertson Composites imports two dandy actions that really only require a barrel to be chambered and installed. The Barnard also comes with a pretty darn good trigger. Both the Stiller and Barnard do not require additonal tuning.
Rick from Alberta Tactical is a very good gunsmith and would gladly put the works together for you.
If you are really intent on staying within a budget of $1500, you are likely really only left with re-barreling a factory gun to stay in that parameter, and it's associated deficiencies. Nothing wrong with that route either, all my rifles are re-barreled factory actions that have been trued up, all by very respected Canadian gunsmiths. But they do have limitations, and they sure as heck do not agg in the 0.1's.
You're right, it is silly. Why go all the way to 3, you should shoot 2 round groups instead. Imagine how good the groups might be then?! My question is, how many 3 shot groups did you shoot at 200 yds (and throw away) to finally find this miracle group, and claim it as indicative of this particular gun's accuracy? Everybody, and I mean everybody has miracle groups, but you might be the only one that believes the miracle group to be an indicator of overall accuracy.
Oh wait, I see you answered my question
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
WR, I think you will find that if you reread my posts and actually read what I said not what you think I said, many of your questions would be answered.
Do read my article. It will be enlightening.
When you look at what is happening with these action with an open mind, you will find that I am not alone in my findings.
The Savage offers the shooter options not found in any other action pending the upcoming Marlin. The costs of modifications are substantially lower then conventional actions yet performance is on par.
As I said a few posts back, build a rifle (or at least add up the costs of the parts as listed in my article). Try it. Might surprise you....
I have two 6.5 Mystic F class rifles because I didn't believe the results I was getting with number #1. This after shooting just under 900rds. That is a bunch of 5 and 20rds groups.
Mystic #2 hasn't shot as well but still much better then would be expected. This I attribute to the hummer Ted Gaillard gave me for Mystic #1.
I have burnt the powder, tested and restested, installed pipes, swapped pipes, changed stocks, made stocks. Turned the issue every way possible. After working with over a dozen rifles directly and a bunch more indirectly, I think I have enough data to make some conclusions.
My results are consistent and repeatable. Others, some posting on this board, can share their similar experiences.
Does it change the 'norms'? You better believe it.
There is only one way for you to see what we happy users are talking about.
Cause you sure don't believe what we post
Jerry
Do read my article. It will be enlightening.
When you look at what is happening with these action with an open mind, you will find that I am not alone in my findings.
The Savage offers the shooter options not found in any other action pending the upcoming Marlin. The costs of modifications are substantially lower then conventional actions yet performance is on par.
As I said a few posts back, build a rifle (or at least add up the costs of the parts as listed in my article). Try it. Might surprise you....
I have two 6.5 Mystic F class rifles because I didn't believe the results I was getting with number #1. This after shooting just under 900rds. That is a bunch of 5 and 20rds groups.
Mystic #2 hasn't shot as well but still much better then would be expected. This I attribute to the hummer Ted Gaillard gave me for Mystic #1.
I have burnt the powder, tested and restested, installed pipes, swapped pipes, changed stocks, made stocks. Turned the issue every way possible. After working with over a dozen rifles directly and a bunch more indirectly, I think I have enough data to make some conclusions.
My results are consistent and repeatable. Others, some posting on this board, can share their similar experiences.
Does it change the 'norms'? You better believe it.
There is only one way for you to see what we happy users are talking about.
Cause you sure don't believe what we post
Jerry
What an absurdly broad statement.
I think we all do. And why anyone would follow you down such a tortured accuracy quest is inconceivable.
No they are not. By your own admission, Mystic 2 didn't repeat on Mystic 1, but I guess that is now because one barrel was good, and other not, right?? Sucks to have your hypothesis blown away by your very own equipment.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Mystic 1 shot in the 1's with occasional group in the 0's. Mystic 2 was more in the 2's with the occasional group in the 1's. This out to 300m's over multiple groups. Calm air testing.
Barrel 1 is now cresting 1800rds and showing its age. Still F class competitive but has lost its bughole edge. Barrel two over 1000rds and still shooting as it has from the start. That's enough consistency for me.
And yes, I attribute that to the vagueries of the two pipes.
Ultimately, accuracy is determined by the barrel - at least it does to me. The best we can do is extract what is already there. Some barrels shoot, some don't no matter the brand or how we feel about it.
As I have said so many times, spending time trying to tear apart symmantics is not helpful. Seems to work for you. That's great and good luck with your shooting ventures.
Contributed anything helpful yet or do your consider these rebuttals useful?
Jerry
Zero's now?? Sweet Hey Zoos. By this you mean 0.0x", occasionally?? I eagerly await your claim to a negative group size, as in -0.100." We wouldn't dare question that, could we?
It is semantics BTW, and no that is not what we are doing. I checked.
Yes and yes.
You sound tired? Please don't give up yet.... This story gets better and better everytime you reply.
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
Was wondering long people would put up with this sh*t.
Says the man quoting Hitler in his posts.
Oh oh, here comes the Mystic nut hugger brigade/cavalry. Stand back everyone, we'll save Mystic!
Been a long time since I've seen a 7 post newbie run off a 4000+ post whore.
Guess you'll have to go spew your tales over at Benchrest.com, oh wait, they already love you there too....
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48630&page=4
7 posts and not one positive thing to add to this thread.
Why don't you and your asshat Benchrest Elitist's go start your own thread entitled something like "In what fairytale world does a rebarreled savage shoot in the 1's" so you can all go commiserate together rather than being a f**kwad in a thread that your opinion is not wanted nor needed.
f**king s**t disturbers like you should just be perma banned so the rest of us don't have to listen to your bulls**t.
EDIT:
I found a pic of westernronin at his last competition:
Why don't you and your asshat Benchrest Elitist's go start your own thread entitled something like "In what fairytale world does a rebarreled savage shoot in the 1's" so you can all go commiserate together rather than being a f**kwad in a thread that your opinion is not wanted nor needed.
f**king s**t disturbers like you should just be perma banned so the rest of us don't have to listen to your bulls**t.
EDIT:
I found a pic of westernronin at his last competition:
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You are little late here. You must be on the Mystic B team? And your hundreds of posts Mystic nut hugging, are a positive in what way? Are you sure that with only 2500 posts you should get in on this? Doesn't really seem fair.....for you.
Your words, not mine. Didn't take long to come up with that thread title did it??
But in reality I don't even know any active benchresters. Was really hoping to learn off a few on this board, but as usual, the Mystic nuthugger brigade is trying to run them off.
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A little late for what?
Been on this thread since your elitist buddy emailed you and asked for backup on this thread.
You are officially on ignore....welcome to CGN and have a nice day
....asshat
Nice pic BTW...suits you
Been on this thread since your elitist buddy emailed you and asked for backup on this thread.
You are officially on ignore....welcome to CGN and have a nice day
....asshatNice pic BTW...suits you
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Hey cool, we were typing at the same time!!! You are truly obtuse.
Now really, gotta go.
