Steel Sucks!
- Thread starter Jericho
- Start date
I agree. The problem I think is that in the lead days, a marginal hit or one where only a few pellets hit the bird often led to that bird being recovered. With steel that is less likely to happen.
Steel or lead doesn't matter on dead centered birds or birds hit in the CNS. It's with the fringe hits where lead and high density kills birds that steel doesn't.
Agree!
98% of them.Fry said:
This lead poisoning sure isnt an issue at all seeing waterfowl populations are at a 50yr+ high.I am willing to bet water pollution is more of a factor in waterfowl mortality than lead,and its only going to get wose.BAN POLLUTION!
It was a law based on a flawed study in the U.S anyway.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I have read a fair bit on Ducks unlimited and afew other places that compare steel and lead. Many contardict themselves. Some, I can't remember if it's Delta or DU speak of a 40 -45 yrd range and under being a rough guide.
I have rarely seen kills at this range. I have done it and killed and I have crippled at that range much more often.
Maybe this should be more in a PM, but ...
You know what you do Sheephunter, enuff said...
When I see threads start up, I am initially pleased to see your avatar. Then when I read down the message, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's quite condescending. You have much knowledge, but a difficult way of sharing it.
Perhaps it's just me holding you to higher level,(one that I admittedly don't reach all the time), I guess however this is only a forum and you certainly have as much right to get into the arguements and #### flings.
Personally, I enjoy it when you offer good suggestions, rather than ethical/not ethical, black or white, etc etc.
Have you tried patterning?
What size choke do you use?
what size shot?
What kinda birds and pass shooting or decoys?
and offer the good advice you have...rather than backhanded good advice
What do I think is the cause of the steel shot situation?
Lead. We were raised on it and it's second nature for many.
Not everyone is a skeet shooter, nor used to patterning a shotgun, selecting chokes, etc etc etc.
Dad has hunted for 50 yrs I just picked out his shells and changed out his choke. Many of us, me included were raised with a full choke gun with lead and learned to shoot that way. Where i am from there is not a skeet shooting area for 2 hours, and honestly, when steel came out, I couldn't afford to drive 2 hours to a gun club, shoot off a few boxes of good steel shells, buy different chokes etc. Later when I could, I did.
There are people out there who have been hunting 60 yrs still caught in the learning curve from steels introduction.
I think that when steel was made mandatory, the year before it should have been mandatory to complete a steel shot awareness type day course.
Even if it was a mail in test, or log in test online, but something that got the facts accross.
.02 cents american
Some excellent points there seal and my intention is never to sling crap but to bring some knowledge that I have to a pertinent discussion. If my straight forward approach offends some I make no apologies. You said calling a spade a spade was important and that's what I do. I don't think myself better than anyone else and only share knowledge when I have it. The rest of the time I quietly read threads and glean knowledge. I'm not sure who I am or what I do has any bearing on anything. Today I was working as a farrier nailing shoes on horses so what bearing does that have? Read my threads for what they are rather than what you want to perceive them to be and you might just see that I'm just another guy with an informed opinion. That's all I ever think of myself as anyhow!
Saying steel is crap is false. Saying steel does not perform like lead is true. By law, we are forced to use non-toxic shot for waterfowl and if we make the choice to use steel, don't you think as ethical hunters we should use it within its capabilities and quit using it like lead and then whining about the fact that it doesn't perform like lead? If you want lead-like performance there are lots of options albeit expensive ones and if you don't want to pony up the extra cash but still want to hunt birds ethically and legally don't you think it prudent to learn to use steel properly and within its limitations? Old age and stubborness is no excuse in my books for a lack of ethics. I've helped lots of older hunters to better understand steel and the learning curve really isn't that steep.
But ya, your gut was right, this could have been better dealt with in a pm...........
Saying steel is crap is false. Saying steel does not perform like lead is true. By law, we are forced to use non-toxic shot for waterfowl and if we make the choice to use steel, don't you think as ethical hunters we should use it within its capabilities and quit using it like lead and then whining about the fact that it doesn't perform like lead? If you want lead-like performance there are lots of options albeit expensive ones and if you don't want to pony up the extra cash but still want to hunt birds ethically and legally don't you think it prudent to learn to use steel properly and within its limitations? Old age and stubborness is no excuse in my books for a lack of ethics. I've helped lots of older hunters to better understand steel and the learning curve really isn't that steep.
But ya, your gut was right, this could have been better dealt with in a pm...........
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Yes, of course, they devoured it all and then lined up nicely to say, "Please sir, may we have some more?"
lol, I'm just saying that if there's a problem with lead staying around and killing birds, shouldn't there be lasting effects over the years?
Steel is crap.
We have no choice if we are to remain on a budget and hunt. However it cannot be used like lead, and you cannot "learn to shoot steel."
Simple enough, to gain the energy of #4 lead you are forced to utilize #2 steel. By doing so you are reducing your pattern density, effective range and kill-ability. Or, you can use a heavier load of pellets to gain a higher pellet count and higher pattern density, but you will slow down the only thing lethal about steel...Velocity.
By the way, I've shaken steel pellets out of feathers before too.
I have seen this once or twice as well and it was a result of the pellet hanging up on the feathers on the far side after a pass through much as a bullet hangs up on the hide on the far side of a big game animal. For steel to not penetrate feathers and skin on the impact side, I'd be afraid to ask how far someone was shooting.
Possibly you can't but many have...very effectively I might ad.
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Crazy_Farmer
Regular
- Location
- Running Traffic, BC
I'm too young to ever shoot lead at any waterfowl, so thats all I've ever known how to shoot growing up. And rarely ever have problems killing birds out to 40 yards, I keep the majority of my shots under 25 yards. Anthing steel bigger then #4 going 1550fps will do the job.
I know everyone always says how much lead is better, how lead 6s could hammer ducks all day. I guess I've finally seen how after shooting hevi-shot. More dense then lead so pretty much its like shooting the old stuff but better. Except in the price department.
I know everyone always says how much lead is better, how lead 6s could hammer ducks all day. I guess I've finally seen how after shooting hevi-shot. More dense then lead so pretty much its like shooting the old stuff but better. Except in the price department.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I can see I'm gonna have to make a video of shaking the bird, then skinning it to look for damage.
Now believe you me, I have no problem shakin' the bird. First thing I do when I get home is shake the bird. Sometimes I'll even shake it in the field if I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I let my wife shake the bird so I can better see what comes out. She was shakin the bird so hard one day that shot hit her right in the face. But that lil trooper had a one eyed smile and gave the bird another shake for good measure.
Now gettin her to eat the bird, well that's a whole other story
Now believe you me, I have no problem shakin' the bird. First thing I do when I get home is shake the bird. Sometimes I'll even shake it in the field if I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I let my wife shake the bird so I can better see what comes out. She was shakin the bird so hard one day that shot hit her right in the face. But that lil trooper had a one eyed smile and gave the bird another shake for good measure.
Now gettin her to eat the bird, well that's a whole other story
Seal, I'm trying work with you here but for the life of me, I can't figure out how a pellet that didn't penetrate can stick to the feathers and easily be shaken out. Even if I could get my head around that, why don't they fall out when the goose crashes to planet earth at Mach10? Seems to me that thudding in a pond or field would shake any non-penetrating pellets out that were stuck in the feathers on the impact side. Am I missing something here or could it be that they are penetrating pellets that are gummed up with fat, blood and tissue that become hopelessly entagled in the feathers as they exit the body?
Old age and stubborness is no excuse in my books for a lack of ethics. I've helped lots of older hunters to better understand steel and the learning curve really isn't that steep.Quote.
Sorry sonny,where I come from if there are any lessons to be learned the "stubborn old guys will do the teaching" and most guys know enough to shut thier mouth and learn something, its called manners and respect.
Sorry sonny,where I come from if there are any lessons to be learned the "stubborn old guys will do the teaching" and most guys know enough to shut thier mouth and learn something, its called manners and respect.
