Canadian Manufactured 7.62 x 51 Semi Auto
- Thread starter severus
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NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- XMU Local .303
Speaking of the SKS...
What of high-capacity internal magazines for non-repeating rifles?
A pump rifle with an internal drum magazine?
It would be a lot less expensive to produce plastic clips than magazines and you're less likely to get shot down by the RCMP.
Solid aluminum block with the mag well cut by somebody else to be more exact, according to your own post in your own thread:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1051353
So not really ALL the machining.
But if you cut by yourself a magazine well, you may convince me that you could make ONE RECEIVER. Feel better now?
You do understand that making a receiver is not the same with making a rifle, don’t you? If it is functional it would be another question. If it is registerable it adds extra points. If it is production-worthy beyond the prototype and if it has good reviews from users over several years would be the next step. Should I go on?
Go ahead and prove it. You may start with cutting the magazine well, remember, just by yourself. Post photos.
It seems that the mighty Canadian black gun manufactureres can’t get over this. Raise your hands anybody in Canada that can cut one magazine well, other than Dlask of course. Anybody?
I think you two answered each other here, so I’m not going to bother arguing with you.
Don’t be sorry. Nobody asked KPA to go bankrupt or to make a profit. About my black rifle don’t you worry I have more than one, quite pretty, not so little and made in Canada by the way. But they are 5.56, not 308. Few weeks from now I hope to add one more, made in Canada as well, a shorty 7.5 or 8.5 inches with one piece top rail. So relax, you don’t have to go in debt. I have what I need and I have where to buy more from. I am thinking to go into bolt guns too when I will have more money, Albera Tactical or PGW.
oh yeah, but is also a far cry from black gun stuff don’t you think? In another post you claimed that Armedsask was the only one who succeeded. So let me ask you again, succeeded with what? If it’s not 3 rails and some machining then what is it that he succeeded with? Post #1 here is about 308 non restricted black rifle, is it not?
Nobody should feel shame or otherwise for trying to do something new MikeH, KevinB, Armedsask, nobody. I really admire you. Even if you did not succeed, I have all the sympathy for you.
The problem here, if you still don’t understand, is saying that a rail, or some machining equals succeeding to bring black stuff on the canadian market. But from a rail or a golf ball launcher to a 308 nonrestricted black gun is a long way. Yes, I know, all it’s left is to walk the walk.
You are talking about an attempt to make a receiver like it’s the hottest #### on the planet. Even if it’s working, it is just a receiver. I know few people who did more than one receiver years before Armedsask. Many of them are CGNs that I know and I have shot their guns.
I did not brag about having done anything. But that let’s see... it’s a nice try to find out what other people are working on.
The discussion was about what you claimed here to be black stuff and the Armedsask’s canadian success in the black gun market. That claim is ridiculous at best.
I don’t think anybody attacked KPA. Saying the obvious truth that a company with 3 rails on their website is way far from being a black gun manufacturer is not attacking or derogatory.
In the end, I encourage anybody, Armedsask included to try again or try harder, because a receiver and 3 rails didn’t convince anybody here.
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It's a wonder we even bother, eh?
Bring us the world's greatest black rifle! A few weeks later it won't be enough. They'll want your first born.
It's a huge gamble to make a new, unproven product, and no company wants to do that. The best bet is to start small, get a product line rolling and finance development with the profits. The key thing here is to get a company going and this usually takes years. So a Canadian company making Canadian firearms is going to take time.
Patience, people.
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NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Armed,
That was my point. Build yourselves up. Find a product that everyone needs, and that won't break your bank buiding. That's your income, your bread and butter.
Once that's established, then consider moving on to other stuff.
NS
That was my point. Build yourselves up. Find a product that everyone needs, and that won't break your bank buiding. That's your income, your bread and butter.
Once that's established, then consider moving on to other stuff.
NS
Capability to Make This Happen
I thought I would clear up some peoples doubts about our capability to make this happen. We have three factories. One (the largest) in Canada and two in the US. We have the ability to stamp, drop forge, CNC lathe and machine, heat treat, coat, cnc punch, and precision grind. We have CAD/CAM draftsmen on staff, and we can source anything (castings, plastic mouldings, whatever else) else we need. Our sales are mid 8 figures and net profit mid seven figures (no decimals if you get my drift). We have the capability to do this. We will not be offering a business plan.
We will however do our due diligence and thorough testing. We don't build garbage now and would not offer out anything that was less than exceptional. As for ROI I might remind you all that R&D in this country does not simply go down the s**tter. There is a refundable 40% SRED credit and there are also various grants available for this type of work. Since we have most of the infrastructure in place already our marginal cost is very low. Fortune favours the brave.
When I say receiver centric I do not mean that we will be working on a receiver and then just slapping on parts sourced elsewhere. While we will be looking at other firearms for inspiration we will be building from ground up from lessons provided by prior firearms by taking the best and leaving the rest. Receiver centric simply means that the receiver will be the central point for many of the features that will be adjustable. Exchangeable barrels and mag wells, rail and site options, forearms and stocks, and left/right ejection options.
Thank you everyone for this great contribution.
Severus
_____________________
The best deterrent to tyranny is an armed populace
I thought I would clear up some peoples doubts about our capability to make this happen. We have three factories. One (the largest) in Canada and two in the US. We have the ability to stamp, drop forge, CNC lathe and machine, heat treat, coat, cnc punch, and precision grind. We have CAD/CAM draftsmen on staff, and we can source anything (castings, plastic mouldings, whatever else) else we need. Our sales are mid 8 figures and net profit mid seven figures (no decimals if you get my drift). We have the capability to do this. We will not be offering a business plan.
We will however do our due diligence and thorough testing. We don't build garbage now and would not offer out anything that was less than exceptional. As for ROI I might remind you all that R&D in this country does not simply go down the s**tter. There is a refundable 40% SRED credit and there are also various grants available for this type of work. Since we have most of the infrastructure in place already our marginal cost is very low. Fortune favours the brave.
When I say receiver centric I do not mean that we will be working on a receiver and then just slapping on parts sourced elsewhere. While we will be looking at other firearms for inspiration we will be building from ground up from lessons provided by prior firearms by taking the best and leaving the rest. Receiver centric simply means that the receiver will be the central point for many of the features that will be adjustable. Exchangeable barrels and mag wells, rail and site options, forearms and stocks, and left/right ejection options.
Thank you everyone for this great contribution.
Severus
_____________________
The best deterrent to tyranny is an armed populace
Make it straight pull then.
So is it done yet?
GT is right any new and "cutting edge" rifle will need to incorporate a lot of polymers and adjustability. A bulpup design would be good too. I would look to designs like the SL8/G36 and maybe the Tavor for inspiration. If you could come up with a bulpup with a decient trigger you would probably have a hit on your hands.
Couple design features I really like about the SL8 operating system are that the gas system allows almost no expent gases into the reciever and the beautiful simplicity of the bolt/carrier design.
Another great feature of the SL8 that you may want to draw from is the adjustability of the stock. Other then the crappy thumbhole portion the SL8 stock is very comfortable with a nice tall butt pad area. It could be made lighter with a little work too although the weight of the SL8 is neglegabe in a 7.62x51 caliber.
Final feature that the SL8 has that is really forward thinking is the removable floating fore stock.
If it were me I would be looking to utilize the magpul PRS in one of its configurations.
http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=70_88
How is your company with high strength plastics?
Couple design features I really like about the SL8 operating system are that the gas system allows almost no expent gases into the reciever and the beautiful simplicity of the bolt/carrier design.
Another great feature of the SL8 that you may want to draw from is the adjustability of the stock. Other then the crappy thumbhole portion the SL8 stock is very comfortable with a nice tall butt pad area. It could be made lighter with a little work too although the weight of the SL8 is neglegabe in a 7.62x51 caliber.
Final feature that the SL8 has that is really forward thinking is the removable floating fore stock.
If it were me I would be looking to utilize the magpul PRS in one of its configurations.
http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=70_88
How is your company with high strength plastics?
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Waaay out west.
Than you for the reply. This was the type of thing I was looking for. I wish you the best of luck. As you can see from how this thread blew up and took on a life of it's own, this is a subject near and dear to many of the true Nutz on this site. Greentips is right, your product will be measured against the Massoud and Scar. Forget the bullpup design idea thrown out there, most countries have dumped the design in favor of a more conventional platform.
So I take it you have a Board of Directors (and owners) that you have to convince to spend time, money, and RISK, on a rifle which needs to be cheap enough to not make a high profit on, and the risk of being sued for millions if someone dies by using it..
The insurance policy alone would probably be 100K or more.
The idea is good, but the business risks don't seem attractive.
(would your risk a multi million $$ company on someone who has never built a rifle before to put your whole company at risk for a lawsuit??)
As for competing with the Magpul products. Well yes and no. We can't get the damn things here. So it's not really competition. In fact I'd argue that using Canada right now to develope and launch a product like this is pretty good timing. The competition is starting to get pretty slim. Work out the products and then manufacture it later in the US as well. I like the thinking.
I'm looking forward to seeing what comes from this. I always wish the best to anyone starting up a new project. A quality product always finds buyers. People are always willing to pay a bit more for that quality. Most of us know it's more expensive to buy garbage twice rather than quality once.
Best of luck. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of this.
I'm looking forward to seeing what comes from this. I always wish the best to anyone starting up a new project. A quality product always finds buyers. People are always willing to pay a bit more for that quality. Most of us know it's more expensive to buy garbage twice rather than quality once.
Best of luck. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of this.
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Many companies have branched into military types of applicatins as side projects/companies. It doesn't matter what you build, you'll need insurance. You build a widget and one i s found to be defective well depending on what it was used in you could be the subject of lawsuits. Insurance and risks no matter what you do are normal. The firearms industry isn't unique in that aspect.
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