Xcr v. Mr1
- Thread starter Roodog
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blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There's a Swiss Arms vs. Benelli MR1 thread floating around somewhere. Take it for what it's worth...
I stand corrected. It's still too expensive for what it is, though.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
So back to the OP... If we're just sticking to XCR vs. MR1, I'd be (reluctantly) inclined to get the XCR - if only because it offers customization options in the form of various AR accessories and better resale value. The MR1 is just too much of an odd duck for my taste; the only real appeal of the MR1 is the price point - but not enough to overcome the limitations in the design.
If we were to expand the list of choices beyond the XCR, it would be the Tavor (for overall value) followed by the FS2000 (for accuracy and ergonomics). The Swiss Arms wouldn't be on my list at all, because while popular - I think it's really getting dated technology-wise. And uberly heavy and expensive.
If we were to expand the list of choices beyond the XCR, it would be the Tavor (for overall value) followed by the FS2000 (for accuracy and ergonomics). The Swiss Arms wouldn't be on my list at all, because while popular - I think it's really getting dated technology-wise. And uberly heavy and expensive.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If I honestly had an answer to that I'd probably own one...
You must not own or tried it out at those distances, I HAVE, I just shot it this past weekend at the SR match at Cannought range, 500m, 400m,300m, 200m, 100m, with all kinds of Prone, Kneeling, standing and moving targets. BTW from prone at 500m during the 5rd zeroing I hit 3 of them in a 6" group! Anycase the effective range of 5.56mm is 300m and we were shooting 200m past that. That round is not made for 600yrd's and anyone that would take a shot 600yrds with 5.56mm/.223 needs to reevaluate their hunting practices.
I will even take Video like this one! "this is not me btw"
http://youtu.be/mvOw4zPkIm8
Sorry to be slighty off topic:
Just curious as I have yet to see any range reports or video's demonstrating the superior accuracy of the Tavor's and FS2000's... Anyone have range reports on accuracy and performance?
I see a ton of AR, Mini-14, M1,Norinco m14 and XCR...
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I didn't necessarily say the Tavors were more accurate, just that they offered more value (compact, lightweight). Some of the FS2000's are very accurate.
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Haha, I can see this thread becoming a train-wreck of an argument between all the different non-restricted black rifles you can get now. Coming from a guy who first bought a Benelli MR-1, then switched to an XCR, and then bought a Tavor as a companion, and now wants an FS-2000...
I can't say the MR-1 is actually any more accurate than my XCR was. They both shoot very well for battle rifles. The ARGO system on the MR-1 makes it shoot really soft, but the XCR deals with recoil pretty well too. I have also seen a few MR-1s have reliability problems, one of my friends has dubbed his the "Italian Princess". In terms of problems, the XCR is very heavy up front, and while this may help with barrel rise it does seem to be an issue for some people. I have a Magpul UBR weighted stock on the back that does help a lot with balancing the rifle, although the overall weight is now over 9 pounds.
If it's a choice between the MR-1 and the XCR, I would still go for the XCR 9 times out of 10. The exchangeable calibers is something you probably will never use, but it is a decent perk. If you want to spend more money, I really recommend shooting a Tavor before even considering it. I've had mine for a month and I've been having some issues with the hot gases and gunpowder residue hitting me in the eye. It's not an enormous issue, but it is kind of annoying and if I had known about it earlier I probably would've plunked the 200 extra dollars down for an FS2000. I would still probably trade my near brand-new Tavor for one....
It's too bad you're in Alberta or I could let you try some shots with the Tavor and XCR.
I can't say the MR-1 is actually any more accurate than my XCR was. They both shoot very well for battle rifles. The ARGO system on the MR-1 makes it shoot really soft, but the XCR deals with recoil pretty well too. I have also seen a few MR-1s have reliability problems, one of my friends has dubbed his the "Italian Princess". In terms of problems, the XCR is very heavy up front, and while this may help with barrel rise it does seem to be an issue for some people. I have a Magpul UBR weighted stock on the back that does help a lot with balancing the rifle, although the overall weight is now over 9 pounds.
If it's a choice between the MR-1 and the XCR, I would still go for the XCR 9 times out of 10. The exchangeable calibers is something you probably will never use, but it is a decent perk. If you want to spend more money, I really recommend shooting a Tavor before even considering it. I've had mine for a month and I've been having some issues with the hot gases and gunpowder residue hitting me in the eye. It's not an enormous issue, but it is kind of annoying and if I had known about it earlier I probably would've plunked the 200 extra dollars down for an FS2000. I would still probably trade my near brand-new Tavor for one....
It's too bad you're in Alberta or I could let you try some shots with the Tavor and XCR.
I'm not sure I understand this concept of value. Sure these are inherent physical characteristics of the bull pup design but do they increase value?
It could be argued that a fully metal rifle with great ergonomics,trigger and fully adjustable stock for fit. In addition the ability to change calibers in under 5 minutes and fully ambidextrous for a $1000 less is better value.
I have actually, and accuracy was very disappointing compared to my sl8, my friends swiss arms, and especially every ar I've ever owned previously or now.
Three round groups mean squat. I've had an sks put three rounds into an inch at 100, it was a 5 moa rifle at best most of the time.
Try half a dozen 10 round, 200 yard groups, it's eye opening in terms of determining the true accuracy of any rifle... and particularly dramatic with the xcr. You will see a stringing pattern in every group, starting high left and finishing low right.
I haven't laid hands on one yet that doesn't do it, some are worse than others.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Value is in the eye of the beholder, as always... When comparing size, weight, ergonomics and ambidexterity - the Tavor and FS2000 win hands down. The FS2000 and XCR are probably on par with the trigger and accuracy. The XCR clearly has more rail space, mounting options and upgradability. In reality the closest comparison for the XCR is probably the HK SL8 (even though the G36 conversion will run you a few bills more). The MR1, while an ok rifle, really isn't in the same league as any of these.
I would go with an FN. The MR1 it is pretty nice, shoots well, but personally it just doesn't cut it for me with looks. The FS2000 is remarkable; unfortunately also next to impossible to get in a non restricted variant at this point. I have been looking for months and have had no luck. Hi desertdog is about to do a barrel run and questar has the gun, but putting the two together is apparently the hard part due to their very sophisticated barrel and action it has. No one seems to have the tools to do it or at least that I have spoken with.
soooo with all that being said... since we are talking about black rifles in general I figured I would mention the PS90 which comes in a non restricted version is really sweet; smaller caliber but really cool, and it has the FN tech and flash appeal. I have an FNAR with the heavy barrel which shoots 308 Winchester and the NATO equivalent and I love it. It has a 1 moa rating from the factory which is nice and really punches out the shots and feels wonderful. Great for all types of game and for hitting the range with. Both are perhaps a bit different then what you talking about getting to begin with (and about double the price if not more) but still a cool thought assuming it has not already been mentioned.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm biased of course, but I like my FS2000 as well. I've got the heavier barrel on mine so it's a tack driver.
Size and weight I'll give you but I have a hard time believing ergonomics. The XCR allows safety,mag release, bolt release and bolt hold open to be all controlled by the index finger. It has a 30degree safety and can be fired from either hand dynamically as all controls are ambi except the charge handle, which is no reciprocating.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Size and weight I'll give you but I have a hard time believing ergonomics. The XCR allows safety,mag release, bolt release and bolt hold open to be all controlled by the index finger. It has a 30degree safety and can be fired from either hand dynamically as all controls are ambi except the charge handle, which is no reciprocating.
The XCR is barrel heavy. Maybe not insanely so like the Swiss Arms, but heavy nonetheless. The new Fast stock is also a piece of junk, so I'm not sure how a faulty, unreliable stock is better than not having any adjustable LOP at all. I'm willing to concede that the ambidextrous capability sounds like it might be on par with the FS2000 (the Tavor is still ahead with the LH bolt, though).
The XCR does have a few things going for it: multi-caliber, AR-accessorizable, more readily available and probably a bit cheaper than a Tavor or FS2000.
For the OP, he should get the XCR over the MR1. Given a choice, I'd get neither.
I haven't had any issues with my FAST stock. Mind you I gave it the once over when I got it. Tavor can't be fired dynamically from either hand, to my mind that is a shortcoming in any tactical rifle. I agree the XCR is a little barrel heavy but then most of that can be cured by having the barrel turned down to a light contour.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It's relatively new, individual mileage probably varies... If the Tavor is good enough for the IDF, it's good enough for me (and yes, I do know they're moving more towards the X95). It's an actual combat-tested rifle, so I'll take the Tavor's quirks over Alex (?) swimming around with an XCR...
Size, weight, ergonomics. I can throw an optic and magazine on the Tavor for probably the same base weight as an XCR. I'm not a tall guy to begin with, so I think I'd find the XCR a lot more cumbersome to lug around, as well.
That being said... the XCR does fill a certain "void", especially if you want to hunt with it. We really don't have a lot of options in the semiautomatic/hunt-capable black rifle category...
Yes the Tavor can be fired dynamically from either hand. If that's your thing. The same way the Brits do with their bullpup rifles. With the FS2000 it ejects out the front. Ambi friendly.
As for a tactical rifle. Neither the MR1 or the XCR are tactical/battle rifles. Both are consumer grade products. Although the XCR has been marketed as differently, I wouldn't consider it in the same league as the Tavor or the FS2000 for combat/tactical. Both have been adopted by military services. Especially the Tavor. The XCR although closer than the MR1 to a battle rifle is still a consumer grade product.
Also on the Tavor and I believe the FS2000 (if the safety works the same way as my PS90) you can activate the safety without having to charge the bolt first. The XCR and AR you must charge back the bolt before you can engage the safety.
Given the choice between the XCR and the MR1, I'd go with the XCR. Personally I'd save up and buy something else. If you really need a decent not too expensive accurate non restricted semi auto 223/556 then grab a target Mini 14 to tie you over until you can get the black rifle you really want.
The only caveat to this is if you plan on hunting. With the caliber conversions for the XCR you may wish to go this route. Providing you don't want to go 308 which opens up the XCR-M vs RFB debate.
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