Rob Arm XCR range report (pic heavy)

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Sharpshooter jr. said:
Just finished shooting the 10 rounds groups
So just to recap, 2x groups, 10 shots a piece, 124 meters, prone, stock barreled XCR, factory ammo
image-19.jpg

Can I have my credit now?
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Sweet. I liked the 3-shot groups too.
 
Nice target OP. My XCR in 6.8 puts in sub 1 inch as well. For some reason this gun in particular has picked up a bunch of nay-sayers... Get used to it. Multiple 3 #### groups are good for me, and I've also got 6 minute-of-deer 1 shot groups as well. Get used to criticism and next time save your ammo... Though it is enjoyable watching someone eat crow. You could say it shoots minute-of-crow as well.

Party on!
 
I agree and think this is doable. I got out with mine yesterday using 55 gr Hornady FMJ over 25.0 gr H335 in WCC brass and was printing around 1.25" @ 100 yds with a 4X scope and no rear rest. With a scope like the OP and a rear rest I can see sub moa out of my own XCR so I still think the OP is telling it like it is. IMO ten shot groups show more variables than I care to see factored into a range report. When I click on someone's range report and it says things like "it was windy and I was rushed for time" or "I'm not a very good shot" it pretty well defeats the purpose of the range report by skewing what the rifle is capable of with variables so I learn nothing about the rifle. 10 shot groups drag both ammo inconsistencies and shooter error into what is supposed to be a representation of what the rifle can do. I don't care how well the shooter shoots or how good his ammo is, I want to see what his rifle can do. 3 shots gets that across. If you want to see how well people shoot it should be in another thread not labelled range report of a specific rifle. I know some don't agree with this but honestly I don't care about anything in a range report except how the rifle shot. Two 3 shot groups tell me that, not how well the shooter holds himself together over a longer string or how consistent his ammo is. If 10 shots makes you feel better that's fine but I won't be whining over 6 shot range reports. I see how the rifle does and that's all I want.
 
Being an old Alberta boy I can just see how this would look in another context.
"Hey!!!! My ####'s gotta be bigger than yours cause my mudder is smaller than yours."
"No way man, my #### is WAY bigger than yours".
And on we go.

:nest:
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This thread is epic! Before my commentary I will offer a quick summary.

1. Some epic shooting posted
2. All the Swiss Arms owners begin to flame on about how 3 round groups aren't legit
3. More epic shooting is posted
4. Temporary silence from Swiss Arms owners
5. Unable to find more BS excuses the Swiss Arms owners move on to implying the guy is a liar and a cheat
6. Uber shooter guy with XCR calls them on it and offers to prove it
7. Beltfed "sprains his ankle" realizing that he might have to pay out on ammo and steak dinner. (Beltfed this is a bit of a joke, not actually accusing you of lying, get well soon so this shindig can happen)
8. CGNers are taking sides, making bets and enjoying the epic thread
9. Steve Janes has not commented on this thread because he has, since the thread was posted, been out trying to best the XCR with his Swiss Arms, obviously he has not had any luck cause a month later he still hasn't posted. (Not attacking Steve Janes, its just that he has talked alot of sh!t about the XCR on this forum and seems to have an unhealthy obsession with his Swiss Arms LOL)
10. Blaxsun is reading this thread wishing he could comment but cant due to his "timeout".

Okay, now for my opinion. I believe that these groups are achievable with an XCR, good ammo and a nice piece of glass. XCRs can shoot 2-3" groups with bulk AE 223, they are not precision rifles but the right shooter who is well equipped is certainly capable of taking them to great heights.
 
AlbertaGunslinger said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Okay, now for my opinion. I believe that these groups are achievable with an XCR, good ammo and a nice piece of glass. XCRs can shoot 2-3" groups with bulk AE 223, they are not precision rifles but the right shooter who is well equipped is certainly capable of taking them to great heights.
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Bull.
The shooter doesn't make a lick of difference if the rifle is incapable.
An xcr won't shoot consistently sub moa with hand loads. That's a fact.
If he'd left it at the first three round groups, it would have been almost believable with the gas system shut off.
But 20 rounds in a row like that, come on, any body with any experience loading and precision shooting knows that's great shooting out of a quality bolt gun or very high end precision ar (les Baer). With tailored hand loads.

I purchased and ran some of that fiocchi through the chrono, and accuracy tested it.
Put it through a noveske barrelled ar and a tikka tactical bolt gun.
1 moa or worse. All vertical, the velocity spread over the chrono was such that it'd be tough for Jesus himself to shoot this under moa with a bench rest rifle built by god.
Every xcr I've owned or played with was not a precision rifle by any stretch of the imagination.
 
AlbertaGunslinger said:
Steve Janes has not commented on this thread because he has, since the thread was posted, been out trying to best the XCR with his Swiss Arms, obviously he has not had any luck cause a month later he still hasn't posted. (Not attacking Steve Janes, its just that he has talked alot of sh!t about the XCR on this forum and seems to have an unhealthy obsession with his Swiss Arms LOL)
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So a little bird phoned me this morning and told me someone had mentioned me by name on here, so I figured I'd better address it ;)

First of all, My Swiss and I, don't shoot with a scope, or for groupings, I use iron sights only. Many around here know this already, as I have publicly stated it, several times in fact. The best group I have personally shot with a Swiss, was 5 rounds in a 1.9" group at 100m using Iron Sights from a bench and rest.

Second, I would not try to best this imaginary group with my Swiss Arms rifle (or any other semi auto piston gun) as I do not believe it is attainable.

It is simply not possible for this individual to achieve these results with his XCR. Not with a machine rest could he do this. It has nothing to do with Swiss rifles or my opinion of them. These results would be difficult if not impossible to achieve with this rifle, even with a highly tuned precision rig these groups would be impressive. The guy is quite simply, full of sh*t. No one shoots 20 rounds straight, with 4 magazine changes, on 2 separate targets, all under .35 MOA, with factory ammo, and an OEM XCR, it's not possible. If i lived in the area, I would certainly pay to see these results duplicated. Heck, how about if he wants to prove such a bold claim he offer some video of his testing like some others do. Look at all the BS this guy has managed to start with his lie.........

Lastly, I recommend the XCR often to anyone wanting a modular NR rifle. I feel for a modular NR rifle, the XCR is the best rifle on the market. It's also from what I have seen an extremely reliable gun, as are most piston designed guns. No, it is not my first choice, but I would be happy shooting an XCR, and would recommend it to anyone who was interested.
 
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You know, I'm still not sure I believe the -L results, but, I may actually be homing in on one inch with my XCR-M.

The real problem with the platform is how awkward it is to stabilize and keep steady while shooting. That stupid FAST stock is just awful for stability on the bench. Last night I managed to put 4 into an inch, with the first shot 3" high. I'm starting to think I may have actually let the rifle slide backwards as I pulled the trigger on that one. I've pretty much settled on 41.5 grains of H4895 behind a 168 AMAX, and, I along with the more experienced shooter helping last night, that the -M can actually do it.

That makes me believe that the -L is in fact capable of the same sort of accuracy.

As for a 10 shot, .4" group, I'm not sure, but, I think the platform itself is perhaps capable of more than we give it credit for the simple fact that to date RobArm has been putting stocks on the gun that are incredibly difficult to stabilize on the bench.

Just my thoughts.

I'm out of H4895 right now, but, as soon as I score some more, I'm going to invest in a better rear bag, and perhaps make a custom stock that will allow me to keep it steady for the purposes of accuracy testing...
 
I don't know where all the 0.4" group and .35MOA talk is coming from but it was clearly posted that his smallest group was still 0.6685" at 124m which still means that his group was over a half MOA. I know that is still an amazing group and somewhat unbelievable but certainly not impossible, plenty of people have been able to achieve 1" groups with the XCR, albeit most of them with hand loads, but still it is not entirely unbelievable that such groups are possible.
 
AlbertaGunslinger said:
I don't know where all the 0.4" group and .35MOA talk is coming from but it was clearly posted that his smallest group was still 0.6685" at 124m which still means that his group was over a half MOA. I know that is still an amazing group and somewhat unbelievable but certainly not impossible, plenty of people have been able to achieve 1" groups with the XCR, albeit most of them with hand loads, but still it is not entirely unbelievable that such groups are possible.
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It's coming from this:
beltfed said:
Let's do some quick math: moa @ 100m = 1.14564", and ~ 1.42" @ 124m
Based on a 1"x1" square these groups measure about half an inch across, making them .35 moa.
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Now math is not my strong suit, and this "quick" math he speaks of doesn't really work for me. Math for involves a calculator and a lot of head scratching, so I just took his educated response as truth. Are you saying beltfed's math is wrong?

Either way that is where all this .35MOA talk came from......


EDIT: I just read back some of the latest garble that I missed, and I must say I am hugely disappointed in beltfed. Seriously, I still think the group is impossible with an XCR, but Beltfed, step up to the plate pal, put your money were your mouth is.
 
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I'm excited to see how this turns out, those groups seem tiny for 10 shots, bullets must have been going through the same holes

I was recently shocked how accurate my new 7.62 AR build is. Shots were touching at 100 yards, and I was just standing and resting it on a bag on the bench. Using norinco non corrosive ammo. I'll be making a new thread for this soon
 
I don't believe it, like many others with XCR's they are fairly accurate, most claim to get about 2" at 100 yards and that is a good group. I do not believe that he picked this gun up, grabbed some factory ammo and went to the range and shot .35MOA with the first 2 3 rounds groups, then continued to do so with 2 10 round groups without 1 flyer, 1 outside of a half inch circle. He probably shot those 10 round groups at 20 yards and posted it from "124"m. I don't think it is impossible, but very very unlikely. Especially with a bone stock rifle and factory ammo. People strive for these results with there precision rifles that have custom barrels and match load rounds.
 
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