Swiss Arm Green Special, Black Special,etc.... any news ????

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have yet to comment on this issue but everyone is so fixated on the issue of lineage I just wanted to point out another perspective...


To the best of my knowledge lineage isn't the issue, lineage isn't used in the criminal code or any of the OIC's at all. Variant is the issue.


var·i·ant
[vair-ee-uhnt] Show IPA

adjective
1. tending to change or alter; exhibiting variety or diversity; varying: variant shades of color.
2.not agreeing or conforming; differing, especially from something of the same general kind.
3.not definitive, as a version of part of a text; different; alternative: a variant reading.
4.not universally accepted.

noun
5.a person or thing that varies.
6.a different spelling, pronunciation, or form of the same word: “Vehemency” is a variant of “vehemence.”



I pose this hypothetically, not to be a naysayer, but ponder the following statements:

A) The 550 is a variant of the 540
B) The 540 is therefore, by default, a variant of the 550
C) Then by its very nature any variant of the 540 is also variant of the 550

That's the logic they'll hit you with and there really isn't an argument against it.

Make sure in your letter you demand that the OIC naming 550 variants as prohibited be stricken by another OIC because that's probably, realistically, the only way we're going to see Swiss Arms kept in Canada.
 
EFFTHEGOV'T said:
who do we send the letters to
Click to expand...

Click here. Lots of letters here for you to use or to base your own letter off of.

Post #2 has instructions on whom to send the letters to and figure out you MP's address. To directly answer your question these people including your own MP;

Here's how to contact your MP by Postal Code.
Here's how to search the MP's by name.

Here's the contact information for Stephen Harper.
Here's the contact information for Vic Towes.
Here's the contact information for Garry Breitkreuz
Here's the contact information for Candice Bergen (formerly Candice Hoeppner)

Send letters to each person on that list, including your own MP.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Naturally the C/A rifles would have to be turned in (and hopefully replaced by the importer).
Click to expand...
You would think they (importers & retailers of the SAN) would have already posted details of what they are going to do and start the process before the June 30th deadline to show they want to rectify the issue on their own rather than have the RCMP do it for them.

Lineage should be a non issue if it was proven the first time and should not be something for them to "wait and see" before they start a program to collect all the C/A rifles and either exchange or refund the owners.
 
Last edited:
mopar guy said:
I pose this hypothetically, not to be a naysayer, but ponder the following statements:

A) The 550 is a variant of the 540
B) The 540 is therefore, by default, a variant of the 550
C) Then by its very nature any variant of the 540 is also variant of the 550

That's the logic they'll hit you with and there really isn't an argument against it.
Click to expand...

That's the problem with using vague and ill-defined wording in legislation.

By the same logic, a Remington 700 bolt action, being a firearm, is a "variant" of every other firearm, including the Sig 550. Therefore, the Remington 700 must be a prohib.

The issue here is the amount of latitude that can be taken in the interpretation of the term "variant". I don't mean for a moment to suggest that there isn't a clear and present danger re: the PE90 rifles, because there is. But I seriously doubt that the powers that be could get away arguing that the 540 is a variant of the 550. If they're allowed to make that leap, your Remington 700 isn't safe either.
 
Brian46 said:
Lineage should be a non issue if it was proven the first time and should not be something for them to "wait and see" before they start a program to collect all the C/A rifles and either exchange or refund the owners.
Click to expand...

Lineage was proven the first time because the RCMP didn't even see the rifles before using the initial "proof" to allow and classify them, no? They have since seen a number of SAN rifles and along with the whole JR-initiated fiasco, any "proof" they received before is invalid or in need of serious clarification given their "most generous interpretation" it would seem.
 
Not Long said:
Lineage was proven the first time because the RCMP didn't even see the rifles before using the initial "proof" to allow and classify them, no? They have since seen a number of SAN rifles and along with the whole JR-initiated fiasco, any "proof" they received before is invalid or in need of serious clarification given their "most generous interpretation" it would seem.
Click to expand...
Regardless of the lineage and if the whole line goes prohib because of someones actions the C/A rifles were still sold under false pretenses, the importers and retailers that sold them are not going to be able to side step that issue and are obligated to reimburse the consumer for all costs if the rifle is confiscated
 
Brian46 said:
Regardless of the lineage and if the whole line goes prohib because of someones actions the C/A rifles were still sold under false pretenses, the importers and retailers that sold them are not going to be able to side step that issue and are obligated to reimburse the consumer for all costs if the rifle is confiscated
Click to expand...

The lineage issue cannot be disregarded in the least, that is the issue that can likely render every one of these rifles prohib on a language-based technicality regardless of whether or not they're purpose-made or C/A. You're making a lot of assumptions on events that are yet to play-out but I agree that there could well potentially be a lot of legal action resultant from an RCMP decision not in favor of SAN owners?

Great comments also mopar guy!
 
Not Long said:
You're making a lot of assumptions on events that are yet to play-out but I agree that there could well potentially be a lot of legal action resultant from an RCMP decision not in favor of SAN owners?
Click to expand...
I am not making assumptions, the C/A rifles should never have been imported or sold here regardless of what the RCMP decides about lineage and if they prohibit them all in future. The people who have the C/A rifles that were never supposed to be imported/sold here will have legal recourse against the importers and retailers. If the RCMP changes the status of the rest of the SAN rifles and takes them away you will have to fight them for your money, the importers are not going to issue millions in refunds for used rifles because the RCMP changed the law 12 years later.
 
Neo said:
That's the problem with using vague and ill-defined wording in legislation.

By the same logic, a Remington 700 bolt action, being a firearm, is a "variant" of every other firearm, including the Sig 550. Therefore, the Remington 700 must be a prohib.

The issue here is the amount of latitude that can be taken in the interpretation of the term "variant". I don't mean for a moment to suggest that there isn't a clear and present danger re: the PE90 rifles, because there is. But I seriously doubt that the powers that be could get away arguing that the 540 is a variant of the 550. If they're allowed to make that leap, your Remington 700 isn't safe either.
Click to expand...

AK47 = 22lr Jaeger
HK416D, Colt, S&W MP22/15 = restricted AR15's
The whole Umarex line of 22lr's = MP5's, Uzi's, other prohibited guns

All prohibited because of the broad definition of variant.

Lineage implies a parent/offspring relationship, you are correct in that the 540 is not a child of the 550

Variant implies similarities as per the definition I posted earlier, the 540 is indeed similar to a 550 in form and function

The Remington 700 does not have a direct relationship to the Sig 550 and is not similar in either form or function, but there is no way you can say that the 540 and 550 and Swiss Arms are not all based off of a similar platform

If we all write our MP's maybe we can get the word variant out of the way once and for all!
 
Last edited:
So what happens if the entire SAN line of rifles is in fact built using 550 receivers both in Semi Auto or Select fire models , What then !!!
 
Savage said:
So what happens if the entire SAN line of rifles is in fact built using 550 receivers both in Semi Auto or Select fire models , What then !!!
Click to expand...

Then swiss arms are bad people for lying (to the RCMP AND us) to get the rifle in if in fact it IS based on the 550. But from every thing I have read it's designed as a semi-only rifle built with the lower designed off the S.A. 540 lower receiver, and thusly is more designed off of the 540 than the 550, but now try to convince the RCMP of that when all they do are look at a gun to determine it as a variant of something...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom