SHTF Rifle - Ideas

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Gin said:
Gotta stay NATO. What do you think the U.S DHS bought a billion rounds of last year?? I bet 5.56 was high on the list of calibres they purchased, if not #1. 9mm & 7.62x51 are up there as well I'm sure.
That's what would consistently be floating around throughout a SHTF scenario. The public stash is far larger than any prepper could dream of.

I think .22lr & 12ga would be important as well for hunting additionally. And 9mm & .308 for secondaries & precision rifles respectively.
But .223 is going to be your bread & butter. If it's standard for everyone else, it has to be your standard. That also means the magazine should be our available standard STANAG-style. Optimally your weapon would be standard, but that's where we run into our problem.
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The US DHS bought 1.6 billion rounds of 5.56x45 because they know they are going to be fighting their own civilian population as soon as they try to take away their guns and start throwing people in the FEMA camps. They are on their way to civil war and when that happens we will be drug into the same situation.
Don't believe what you see on the evening news, the government is not here to serve us or protect us, we are their slaves and things are going to change drastically. This is happening around us right now. High River? A test to see what they can get away with.

Sh!t, this tinfoil hat is too tight.... There that's better.

Be prepared to survive without running water, power, heat in your home, gas for your car, or a Safeway down the road. Have a plan to get out of the cities and a place to go before the sheeple get desperate.
Your going to need more than a cheap rifle and a couple hundred rounds of ammo.

The real news is out there if you look for it.
The good news is that it should happen south of the border first and that we should get a little warning but don't wait till the crisis is on your front lawn to start preparing.
 
call me a tin foil hat wearing prepper LOL but I consider SHTF scenarios with every rifle I purchase! Really when it boils down to it you should base your SHTF rifle on ammo. that is whats more important. When SHTF what are you most likely to come across in the field ie hardware stores or someones basement? .223 X39 .308 and 12G and maybe .22LR LOL these are all the calibers I own. my SHTF guns are my SKS and my shotgun. mags are always loaded and two ammos cases pre stocked ready to be tossed in my pack. I put cleaning supplies in my SKS butt stock so I know Im good to go for at least 2-3000 rounds. spend all the money you want on your SHTF rifle but when it does HTF, you will eventually be tossing it and grabbing a rifle off a dead body anyways. Keep it simple (scope not red dot), functional (dont need a tool box to maintain) and light IMO.

besides the american citizens will face this scenario long before it ever spills across our borders, we have time to prepare!
 
Brian46 said:
What kind of SHTF scenarios are you guys thinking? If this is a real civil unrest situation you will need thousands of rounds and a reliable rifle that does not require regular cleaning to keep runing. I have some freinds who came here from Bosnia where they would sometimes go through several thousand rounds in a single evening, when the barrel started to glow red they would dip it in a puddle or bucket of water and ,keep firing and repeat as needed. If your gun stopped firing you were dead.

Not something I would ever want to have to go through but sure makes you think about reliability in a whole new way in terms of SHTF
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What type of rifle were they using?
 
To me the SHTF scenario has to do with an earthquake (as I'm told by the government) and a resulting break down in civil order (which the government never mentions). If you look at what happened in the US with Katrina - and add in that Canada doesn't have anywhere near the resources to respond that the US has, throw in the fact that Canadians will looking for and not receiving Government aid, things will get nasty pretty fast. Looting will start at shopping malls, and radiate outward, similar to the LA riots. In that type of situation, I'm thinking shotgun - I can use it to hunt the urban deer and bird populations, and suppress rioters, and take down ringleaders. Additionally, for each caliber you own, you should have a decent portable reloading set up, even if it's just a Lee hand press, or Lee Loader - portable and reliable, not necessarily fast, time will be available for reloading..
 
came across this on the sks forums. gives you an idea how much ammo will weigh you down if you plan to be mobile
roundsperpound.jpg
 
Honestly, if the S really HTF, classification of your firearm will not matter. If you have a restricted license, get an AR. You get a lot more gun for your money than an equivalent non-restricted black rifle. Once you get over 2k, you can get into XCR's and nice NR rifles. The AR-180b is a nice looking rifle, but expensive for what you get in my opinion and can only be had used nowadays.
 
the m305 is just too heavy for shtf. the t97 is super light compact and a very enclosed action. the m14 is crap once it gets muddy. the t97 has an adjustable gas system for even when mud does get in it. also .308 is too big to harvest small game such as squirrels and rabbits, so your basically vaporizing half your dinner. .223 is the perfect round imo, it goes a long distance, is relatively common and easy to carry in generous amounts. i also find the t97 much easier to strip down due to its simpler action.
 
Like others have said, SHTF does not have to be overnight. If it does happen overnight, classification will not matter period. But if it is a gradual process, registered firearms will be high on the list to gather. You can bet your @$$ on that. Confiscation will be a "for the safety of the public" like High River, New Orleans, etc. Classification does matter as a prepper.

My vote goes to Tavor if you are serious about protecting your family and self in the coming and not to distant storm.

Just look at my sig line. That qoute says it all.
 
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cr5 said:
the us dhs bought 1.6 billion rounds of 5.56x45 because they know they are going to be fighting their own civilian population as soon as they try to take away their guns and start throwing people in the fema camps. They are on their way to civil war and when that happens we will be drug into the same situation.
Don't believe what you see on the evening news, the government is not here to serve us or protect us, we are their slaves and things are going to change drastically. This is happening around us right now. High river? A test to see what they can get away with.

Sh!t, this tinfoil hat is too tight.... There that's better.

Be prepared to survive without running water, power, heat in your home, gas for your car, or a safeway down the road. Have a plan to get out of the cities and a place to go before the sheeple get desperate.
Your going to need more than a cheap rifle and a couple hundred rounds of ammo.

The real news is out there if you look for it.
The good news is that it should happen south of the border first and that we should get a little warning but don't wait till the crisis is on your front lawn to start preparing.
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this
 
To touch on confiscation, it's happening right now in both Cali and NY, where legal owners are having their property confiscated.

But to stay on topic, honestly this is how I look at it.

Go to the range, look at what everybody else has... go with the flow.

Here's why. Ammo can be shared, parts can be shared, and in the end you can sacrifice one rifle to keep two or three going. In a SHTF scenario this is totally overlooked, but something I keep in mind.

SO having said that. IMHO your most common is going to be .223/7.62/.45/9mm/.22LR For rifles that pretty much tells you the story. the ARs I think by popularity win out (Weather you think they're good or not its your opinion) followed by the AK action type rifles (this includes CZ, CSA, SKS,etc) followed by probably a 10/22 for the .22 cal, Pistols... well that one will be harder. Chances are 1911s (since they're common in most collections) in .45, berettas/glocks in 9mm, and a huge mixed group in .22 for pistols.

Again. Go with what you can get in your area, what others have, and something with a common caliber.
 
I would pick the m1a/m305 or SKS over an AR in a hypothetical SHTF situation simply because the m4 is restricted and therefor registered. If the SHTF for political reasons you can bet there will be sweeping confiscations of all firearms. That being said the best shtf firearm other than for hunting is without a doubt any type of handgun. Carrying anything larger will just make people edgy during an already stressful situation such as a gas/food shortage, natural disaster etc. Having a shtf firearm is nowhere near as important as having food/supplies that are good for 2 weeks at the very least. The way this country is managed they'll be tripping over themselves trying to decide whose responsibility it is to help while you and your family starve and freeze.
 
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Turkinator said:
I would pick the m1a/m305 or SKS over an AR in a hypothetical SHTF situation simply because the m4 is restricted and therefor registered. If the SHTF for political reasons you can bet there will be sweeping confiscations of all firearms. That being said the best shtf firearm other than for hunting is without a doubt any type of handgun. Carrying anything larger will just make people edgy during an already stressful situation such as a gas/food shortage, natural disaster etc. Having a shtf firearm is nowhere near as important as having food/supplies that are good for 2 weeks at the very least. The way this country is managed they'll be tripping over themselves trying to decide whose responsibility it is to help while you and your family starve and freeze.
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Both are important, you will need a firearm to protect your food and water from the desperate people who have done no preparing and are getting hungry.
I don't care if they might come take my AR, We will have a little warning at which time my non restricted/registered semi auto 223's will disappear, They can come take my AR and I will comply and when they leave I will still have a rifle and ammo.
Why does everyone always limit this type of discussion to only having one rifle?
If a different scenario plays out and they don't come for our registered firearms then I have my AR's.
The key is to have options.

Also, 2 weeks is not nearly enough. You should have enough food and water to survive 6 months without having to go for groceries. I will hunt for fresh meat and rely on my pantry for everything else.

Biggest thing will be to get out of the cities. It will be chaos and if someone sees you have something they will try to take it.
The police will probably be in the same situation as us after a couple weeks and will have abandoned everything other than trying to protect their loved ones and find supplies.

I base most of my prepping on a WROL scenario in which case my AR's will be my best friend and my mags will run in their natural state. I will hunker down at my acreage and hopefully my friends and family can make their way here. Strength in numbers of course.

Lets hope this never happens but I don't know how we will avoid it the way things have been going lately. The only thing uncertain in my mind is the time line.
 
its much like great hockey players, they are dangerous with any equipment, it comes down to brains, less emphasis on hardware, you need the firearm that you are absolutely comfortable with, and with no training you may be a sitting duck no matter what shiny thing your sportin.....
 
People who have these SHTF kill all my neighbours fantasy don't really read history.

There have been several "SHTF" type real-life historical events, and no results come close to what people are expecting.

During the Great Depression: roving bands of bandits did not go raid people's houses to pillage and rape.

During Hurrican Katrina: no roving bands of bandits either.

During the "Wild West" - which is probably the WORST that North America will ever devolve into, did not also have roving bands of bandits willy-nilly pillaging and raping. Yes it did happen, but 99% of the time law and order was kept.

Think about the conditions of the Wild West: no infrastructure, no electricity, people were allowed to carry firearms, dangerous animals, easy to get away with crime - yet the world's most powerful nation, and modern Canada was the result. Society and a well-educated population have a habit of making things better together.

The only thing that could EVER cause a true SHTF, is a total and permanent collapse of the electrical grid. Modern society, clustered in massive cities, can only exist because of fuel, and fuel only pumps with electricity. If the North American grid collapsed, the rest of the world will come to help. Which is not a problem if you live near a shipping port, but people living inland and in remote areas will have a problem. Hunting for food will not be a long-term solution because any deer population will be wiped out within weeks given that people cannot refrigerate meat and there's 30 million mouths to feed - beside you can't even drive out to where the deer are in the first place.

So what are the things that cause a massive electric grid failure? It's not solar flares. The electric system operators have quite an excellent system set up to protect the grid against solar flares. The only thing would be an EMP bomb, but firing one over N.America is declaring nuclear war on the USA. No-one would do it.

To me: SHTF fantasies are cognitive dissonance. They're there for you to justify spending thousands on a semi-automatic rifle.

Now please, let's go back to talking about the best round to stop a grizzly charge!! ;-)
 
Some more scenarios:

1. Massive economic failure: Look at Greece - no roving/starving bands of bandits
2. Gradual or Sudden Political Opporession: Look to Argentina, Syria, Egypt, Russia and China - sorry folks, but if this happens in Canada, you're losing your rifle. Quite opposite of your fantasy to use your firearms to bravely defend your family, instead what will happen is 20-30 SWAT officers in armoured vehicles will take you down and anyone standing next to you. There's only one option: flee peacefully
3. Anarchy (like in Sudan): there's no point considering this one. Sudan never had a functioning infrastructure with almost 100% literaracy and education rate. No modern country can be compared with a country like Sudan. Anyway the solution is the same as #2: flee peacefully. The guy with the gun is going to get shot first.

Anyway, for every SHTF fantasy, there's a real-life example. None of the real-life examples have normal families going around defending their homes like a circle of wagons. Normal, well-educated people will just band together to help each other. The guy with the gun will be an outcast.

Even in the American revolutionary war, it wasn't individual families creating wagon circles. It was young men joining an organized army.

People who are so martially inclined should consider volunteering for the police force or military, should a situation requiring arms actually happen. Not only will that help provide for the family, but you'd be in a situation to actually use arms in an effective way, as opposed to appearing to such a force as an unstable threat who needs to be removed permanently from the vulnerable community. Look to history to learn from it.

I would also strongly suggest, that as a firearms society, we should strictly advise against such fantasies. It doesn't help our cause to appear to others as well-adjusted law-abiding citizens, when we have paranoid delusions of killing our hungry friends and neighbours. If my neighbour breaks into my house screaming and wielding an axe because she needs food to feed her baby, I'm just going to give her the food, not shoot her in the head.
 
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and lets be real, none of have nearly the disposable income or resources to compete with governments etc.....best laid plans, go hide....
 
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