2014 BC Precision Rifle Championship June 13-15, 2014
- Thread starter PMJ
- Start date
come on guys lets make this happen! My buddy and I got our entries in, this would be our first match and we are excited. If we can do it, so can you!
Same here - this is my first match and I have been looking forward to it for months! Gah.
Hi Ed, both my partner and I were the first in the last two years and felt like it took forever to get our refunds. This is the only match we shoot in the BCRA so not that its a big deal but paid memberships for two years in a row and didn't shoot as well.
Hard to convince my partner to do it this year unless its a firm go before we commit the time and money. We spent allot of time practicing and preparing our equipment for this two years in a row for it to get canceled.
We really would like to go this year but it looks like no ones serious just allot of talk.
Pretty sure still around 11.
uncledillers
Regular
- Location
- Comox Valley
Is there a minimum number of competitors need for this match to be run, and if so when is that decission made?
As per Ed's post - May 15th is the deadline before he cancels it.
Parker-Hale Mike
CGN Regular
- Location
- Beautiful Victoria
I wouldn't cancel it.
In 2007 when I ran the match I only had 15 people registered two weeks before the match. In the end we had 50 people shoot it that year.
In 2008 I had 32ish registered with around three weeks to go, we ended up with 58 shooting that year.
In 2009 I had 34 on the books three weeks before the match, 62 shot the match.
It will work itself out, it always does.
In 2007 when I ran the match I only had 15 people registered two weeks before the match. In the end we had 50 people shoot it that year.
In 2008 I had 32ish registered with around three weeks to go, we ended up with 58 shooting that year.
In 2009 I had 34 on the books three weeks before the match, 62 shot the match.
It will work itself out, it always does.
Mike,
There are a lot of I,I,I in your last post .... You run those matches on your own ? All by your self?,without help,support or input from others ? .....yeah I.I,I don't think so !!!
Folks the full program requires a minimum of registered committed shooters in order to book / reserve the required number of markers ,to many markers ,we loose money, not enough the marking becomes inefficient , a modified program May be and is always considered in these situations there will be shooting !, just not sure if in match from or as a practice like Last year .
one surefire way to have precision stricken from BCRA program is to loose money ...I won't risk it on a maybe ,should be ,could be on too many occasions people make promises and then flake people that should know better wait till last moment to submit Entries or wait till match to show up , and in many occasions theses are veteran competitors ..absolutely inconsiderate in reference to the logistics of the match and can cause a match to bog down and have stages removed or altered to compensate for longer time to mark do to insufficient markers , another argument is self marking !? Well that's fine if the initial program/ course of fire took self marking into consideration if it was based on use of hired markers the match will grind on inefficiently due to relay changes and constant changing of butts, causing movement back and forth on range - this movement takes up precious time and energy .this lack of consideration doesn't take into consideration incidental expenses reference trophies , printing or sponsor expectations in reference to projected attendance and sponsors perceived return on their donations re advertising
I,I,I will let all of you know soonest what can be supported and we can discuss a program based on final numbers and am willing to consider all reasonable suggestions for the greatest use of the range time , BUT
Just to be clear I will not support a " provincial championship " titled match with a handful of shooters participating, it not only diminishes the match but is not fair to previous champions that competed against 50-60 and in the past over 90 shooters
Regards
Ed.
There are a lot of I,I,I in your last post .... You run those matches on your own ? All by your self?,without help,support or input from others ? .....yeah I.I,I don't think so !!!
Folks the full program requires a minimum of registered committed shooters in order to book / reserve the required number of markers ,to many markers ,we loose money, not enough the marking becomes inefficient , a modified program May be and is always considered in these situations there will be shooting !, just not sure if in match from or as a practice like Last year .
one surefire way to have precision stricken from BCRA program is to loose money ...I won't risk it on a maybe ,should be ,could be on too many occasions people make promises and then flake people that should know better wait till last moment to submit Entries or wait till match to show up , and in many occasions theses are veteran competitors ..absolutely inconsiderate in reference to the logistics of the match and can cause a match to bog down and have stages removed or altered to compensate for longer time to mark do to insufficient markers , another argument is self marking !? Well that's fine if the initial program/ course of fire took self marking into consideration if it was based on use of hired markers the match will grind on inefficiently due to relay changes and constant changing of butts, causing movement back and forth on range - this movement takes up precious time and energy .this lack of consideration doesn't take into consideration incidental expenses reference trophies , printing or sponsor expectations in reference to projected attendance and sponsors perceived return on their donations re advertising
I,I,I will let all of you know soonest what can be supported and we can discuss a program based on final numbers and am willing to consider all reasonable suggestions for the greatest use of the range time , BUT
Just to be clear I will not support a " provincial championship " titled match with a handful of shooters participating, it not only diminishes the match but is not fair to previous champions that competed against 50-60 and in the past over 90 shooters
Regards
Ed.
I don't want to start a fight; I don't know ParkerHaleMike - wouldn't recognise him if I saw him- whereas I do know you and you've always been very decent and affable with me but Ed I gotta say that your public response to his post could have been better and, honestly, Ed a Match Director who is being thought of as unnecessarily abrasive isn't the best way to attract participants.
Hello Tomochan,
Thank you for your post,and your perspective .I am sorry if it came off as abrasive my intent was not to start a fight or distract energy from the match but to make it abundantly clear that no one person succeeds in running this match or any match past ,present or future it requires an effort from a number of people in the back ground re reading my post I can see where one might see the post as provocative that wasn't my intent Mike and I have worked together as Director and co director for years prior to me taking over as director -without incident that I am aware of , If I came across as anything other then trying to be informative
And have a little fun with Mike based on our shared position then I apologize to to Mike and to you and for that matter anyone else that might have taken a similar view of my post .......
Regards
Ed.
Thank you for your post,and your perspective .I am sorry if it came off as abrasive my intent was not to start a fight or distract energy from the match but to make it abundantly clear that no one person succeeds in running this match or any match past ,present or future it requires an effort from a number of people in the back ground re reading my post I can see where one might see the post as provocative that wasn't my intent Mike and I have worked together as Director and co director for years prior to me taking over as director -without incident that I am aware of , If I came across as anything other then trying to be informative
And have a little fun with Mike based on our shared position then I apologize to to Mike and to you and for that matter anyone else that might have taken a similar view of my post .......
Regards
Ed.
Hi Ed,
I agree 100% with most of what you said. I appreciate all your hard work and effort to make this event happen.
Logistics for an event are tedious and people showing up the day of the event make them much much harder. I've helped and run numerous events in other sport organizations before. I know how much of a pain walk-in's the day of the event are. I moved many of the larger events I organized to a "no walk-in" policy. I got #####ed at by a few people for turning them or their friends away, but the overwhelming majority were supportive because they knew that it made the logistics a nightmare. If you plan for 10 walk-in's and they don't show then you're out the $$$ you used to account for those extra people (like extra markers in your case). And if you don't account for those 10+ walk-in's and they show, the event runs slow and appears to be unorganized. Either way is unfair to you Ed and the other organizers. I put a 2 week deadline before the event date for entries, some mail their entry on that day so I'd receive it a few days later, but then I had all entries at least 1 week before and it made the events run so much smoother. The only issue is that you need to have the conviction to say no to walk-in's and turn that money away at the event before people take it seriously the following event. The first year there were arguments between the event organizers as some of them wanted to take the extra walk-in $$$, it's hard for a lot of people to turn away money. But once we set the standard and turned away walk-in's we didn't have the issues at all the following years. All years we posted and stated the entry deadline so it was clear.
One thing we found helped increase attendance to an event was posting the names of the entrants so far. We actually started doing this because people would say they mailed in the entry but we never received anything for them. So by posting the names in an "attending thread" people could see if we had their entry form. This had the side effect of people seeing who was going and then signing up because friends were attending or they wanted to compete against some individual they thought was an expert to see how they stacked up against that person. It also caused people to ask their friends why they weren't going or if they were dropping out this year when they didn't see them on the list. Or they would see that the competition was light and a bunch of them would sign up for an "easy win" and then all the ranks would fill in. This really helped to boost attendance and get the entries in on time, a happy side effect. It's something that is simple and easy to do right now, I'd suggest trying it.
I understand and agree with you that if the event is going to lose money then you have to look at alternatives or cancel the event. However I don't agree that if attendance is low but covers it's expenses that you should cancel the event because it "diminishes" the match or title,
Ok maybe 1 or 2 have their daughters birthdays on that weekend and can't attend. But the other 48 or 49 don't have that excuse. If they want to keep their championship title to mean something then it's up to them to show up and defend it. It's not your job to defend the title history of someone's shooting expertise, it's up to them. They need to be responsible and show up to shoot.
I'm posting this in the hope that my history with organizing events can help make this better for you and the competitors. All of this is just with good intentions. I honestly appreciate all the organizers efforts to make these events happen.
I would also be willing to toss my hat in the ring and help, if I can contribute to making this event happen please let me know.
Thanks
I agree 100% with most of what you said. I appreciate all your hard work and effort to make this event happen.
Logistics for an event are tedious and people showing up the day of the event make them much much harder. I've helped and run numerous events in other sport organizations before. I know how much of a pain walk-in's the day of the event are. I moved many of the larger events I organized to a "no walk-in" policy. I got #####ed at by a few people for turning them or their friends away, but the overwhelming majority were supportive because they knew that it made the logistics a nightmare. If you plan for 10 walk-in's and they don't show then you're out the $$$ you used to account for those extra people (like extra markers in your case). And if you don't account for those 10+ walk-in's and they show, the event runs slow and appears to be unorganized. Either way is unfair to you Ed and the other organizers. I put a 2 week deadline before the event date for entries, some mail their entry on that day so I'd receive it a few days later, but then I had all entries at least 1 week before and it made the events run so much smoother. The only issue is that you need to have the conviction to say no to walk-in's and turn that money away at the event before people take it seriously the following event. The first year there were arguments between the event organizers as some of them wanted to take the extra walk-in $$$, it's hard for a lot of people to turn away money. But once we set the standard and turned away walk-in's we didn't have the issues at all the following years. All years we posted and stated the entry deadline so it was clear.
One thing we found helped increase attendance to an event was posting the names of the entrants so far. We actually started doing this because people would say they mailed in the entry but we never received anything for them. So by posting the names in an "attending thread" people could see if we had their entry form. This had the side effect of people seeing who was going and then signing up because friends were attending or they wanted to compete against some individual they thought was an expert to see how they stacked up against that person. It also caused people to ask their friends why they weren't going or if they were dropping out this year when they didn't see them on the list. Or they would see that the competition was light and a bunch of them would sign up for an "easy win" and then all the ranks would fill in. This really helped to boost attendance and get the entries in on time, a happy side effect. It's something that is simple and easy to do right now, I'd suggest trying it.
I understand and agree with you that if the event is going to lose money then you have to look at alternatives or cancel the event. However I don't agree that if attendance is low but covers it's expenses that you should cancel the event because it "diminishes" the match or title,
Ok maybe 1 or 2 have their daughters birthdays on that weekend and can't attend. But the other 48 or 49 don't have that excuse. If they want to keep their championship title to mean something then it's up to them to show up and defend it. It's not your job to defend the title history of someone's shooting expertise, it's up to them. They need to be responsible and show up to shoot.
I'm posting this in the hope that my history with organizing events can help make this better for you and the competitors. All of this is just with good intentions. I honestly appreciate all the organizers efforts to make these events happen.
I would also be willing to toss my hat in the ring and help, if I can contribute to making this event happen please let me know.
Thanks
Hello ARH77,
Thank you for your comments and suggestions you make some good points that should be employed in future matches ,
On point that will never fly in the BCRA executive is banning walk ups- never happen ,I am 100% in agreement with banning walk ups unless arrangements have been made with match organizers prior to match day , thank you again for your input
Regards
Ed.
Parker-Hale Mike
CGN Regular
- Location
- Beautiful Victoria
Nitpick the text however you want Ed, the reality still remains. These guys take forever to get their entries in, run the match and it will all work out.
Hello Mike,
I wish it was that easy , you know that expenses have to be taken into consideration, how many markers do I get 1,5,15
To many I am critiqued , not enough same but worse because now the match isn't efficient . Altimatly numbers will dictate the program / course of fire when I know the numbers next week a decision will be made as to that program
Regards
Ed.
I wish it was that easy , you know that expenses have to be taken into consideration, how many markers do I get 1,5,15
To many I am critiqued , not enough same but worse because now the match isn't efficient . Altimatly numbers will dictate the program / course of fire when I know the numbers next week a decision will be made as to that program
Regards
Ed.
