25 Yard Freestyle Accuracy.....let's play a game.

Clobbersauras said:
Looks like fun! If I were you, I would move to 3 yards and just focus on getting all ten in the inner circle. Once you can get all ten in that inner circle, move back a yard. You work on that drill, several times a week for a few months and you'll shoot better than 99% of the members on this board.
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Depends on what the goal is/was. If it was accuracy only then yes, if the goal was maximum speed while maintaing acceptable hits then no.

Clobbersauras said:
Yes absolutely. A lot of new shooters think that 3 yards is far too close. When in reality it's where they should be starting to give them proper feedback on the areas they need to work on. I use a target called "Dot Torture" almost every range session. It's a series of 10 dots with specific methods of shooting each. Essentially it's a 50 round marksmanship drill with no time limit. Try it at three yards and you'll soon know why it's called Dot Torture. I've yet to run it clean at 3 yards, usually because I'm going too fast or dropping a shot on the WHO portion.
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A very true statement!! Of course we all know that starting at 3 yards isn't "manly" :rolleyes: and men are natural born lovers, drivers and shooters....Right?

Just an FYI, I managed to shoot this drill few days back. No picture(no camera/phone) but the score wasn't as good as expected. Score on the best target was an 81-1x or something similar, it was low. This is no excuse but the XS front sight is the same size(or slightly larger) than the entire black portion of the target. Its no precision sight but it does the job where speed and moving targets are concerned;). For kicks I shot this drill without any sights(different slide) and scored a 29 with 5(one non scoring) hits on paper, not bad for no sights.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Depends on what the goal is/was. If it was accuracy only then yes, if the goal was maximum speed while maintaing acceptable hits then no.
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I know, but this is an accuracy thread. ;)


A very true statement!! Of course we all know that starting at 3 yards isn't "manly" :rolleyes: and men are natural born lovers, drivers and shooters....Right?

Just an FYI, I managed to shoot this drill few days back. No picture(no camera/phone) but the score wasn't as good as expected. Score on the best target was an 81-1x or something similar, it was low. This is no excuse but the XS front sight is the same size(or slightly larger) than the entire black portion of the target. Its no precision sight but it does the job where speed and moving targets are concerned;). For kicks I shot this drill without any sights(different slide) and scored a 29 with 5(one non scoring) hits on paper, not bad for no sights.

TDC
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I used a set of XS's for about three months, I liked them up close but not at distance. I believe that Ameriglo Caps or Hacks provide all the benefits of the XS sights with more precision at distance. Heck, my current Tremclad painted Trij front sight is very easy to pick up at speed. It also fully covers the black of the target at 25 yards. I think you did well with the XS's. Also good shooting with no sights.
 
I was going to post pics but I realized the other day that I am much better with a carbine than I am with a pistol. Best I can say is that I was able to have most shots hit the paper but definitely nothing worth posting pics of.
I shot my 10mm, 2 45's, 2 44's, and my 22 and best results were with the 22 but even that wasn't worth taking a picture of.

I need some training.
 
Clobbersauras said:
Yes absolutely. A lot of new shooters think that 3 yards is far too close. When in reality it's where they should be starting to give them proper feedback on the areas they need to work on. I use a target called "Dot Torture" almost every range session. It's a series of 10 dots with specific methods of shooting each. Essentially it's a 50 round marksmanship drill with no time limit. Try it at three yards and you'll soon know why it's called Dot Torture. I've yet to run it clean at 3 yards, usually because I'm going too fast or dropping a shot on the WHO portion.


Here's a link the downloadable target (take the space out of the http):

ht tp://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture
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This drill is in my range binder as well, along with many others from pistol-training.com and some from HSP. Whenever I take a guest to the range who's never shot before, they are surprised when I ask them to shoot close (3yards) to the target. Girls don't really care...Guys find it incredulous.
 
cr5 said:
I was going to post pics but I realized the other day that I am much better with a carbine than I am with a pistol. Best I can say is that I was able to have most shots hit the paper but definitely nothing worth posting pics of.
I shot my 10mm, 2 45's, 2 44's, and my 22 and best results were with the 22 but even that wasn't worth taking a picture of.

I need some training.
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I have noticed not too many targets being posted considering that is what the thread is
 
Henry The Yellow Dart said:
This drill is in my range binder as well, along with many others from pistol-training.com and some from HSP. Whenever I take a guest to the range who's never shot before, they are surprised when I ask them to shoot close (3yards) to the target. Girls don't really care...Guys find it incredulous.
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Yep. Until they actually try it, then understanding comes quickly.

shms said:
I have noticed not too many targets being posted considering that is what the thread is
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That's because it's actually a very difficult task.

I'm positive we've had many members try this (actually at 25 yards) and not even bother posting their results because they have been so humbled by it. I hope they stick with it, as it will teach them a ton about trigger control, breathing, sight picture, grip, stance, all the fundamentals. But like I wrote earlier, once they try it at 25, and are not happy with their scores, move the target closer. Get comfortable at 3, 5, 7, and 10 yards and then start pushing the distance. Another thing to try is to push yourself out farther than 25. Try 50, or 75, or even 100 yards, then move back to 25. Your 25 yard target will feel incredibly close afterward.

I also recommend not switching between handguns. Pick a gun, stick with it, and wring as much performance out of it as you can. What Ganderite is doing is ridiculously hard to do consistently with so many different platforms. He can shoot!
 
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Clobbersauras said:
.That's because it's actually a very difficult task.
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I'll second that. When I shot this drill the first time I really took my time and came out of the aim after every one or two shots, definitely not shooting it within 30-40 seconds, so good on you Clobbersaurus for maintaining a fairly steady cadence. I figure the more practice I get fine tuning my sight alignment and trigger press at distance the more data my brain can go off of recognizing the correct instant to fire. It was interesting hitting the black and not actually being able to see the hits, since I didn't see multiple shots in the white or on the cardboard backer, I had to trust what I was seeing and how I was pressing the trigger; definitely a confidence booster.

Off the draw I can hit an IDPA torso consistently out to 45m (haven't tried beyond that due to restrictions in range); but that's just a matter of correct speed and sight picture for the distance, and a shot like that will take me 3.5 to 4.5 seconds out of the holster. Could probably go slightly faster, but I couldn't guarantee a hit if I did. That having been said, 25 yards on a B8 target is a very good challenge. The no time limit is nice; but if you don't find a good balance, and keep hunting for that "perfect" picture, you can get fatigued pretty quickly.
 
I agree with everything you wrote.

I actually tend to get better groups if I keep my times in the 30-40 second range. If I slow down I start hunting for that perfect sight picture and then get impatient when it doesn't come (and it never comes when your front sight covers the black). With this drill I feel it's more important to focus on sight alignment than sight picture.

Something for some of the more advanced shooters to try is not prepping the trigger. Most shooters will take out the slack and then finish the press once they think their sights are aligned. Try aligning the sights and press straight back when you are ready. There are many who think that this is a better method, especially with striker fired guns.
 
I did this at 16 yards about a month ago, havnt shot since. Ill try 25 yards when i go out again. I guess the idea is to use one mag so 10 rounds to get your score. Can I use these targets I have shown in the pics as it helps when you can see where your bullets are going, at 25 yards im too blind to see my hits. What Wicked Police did as well as some others is pretty impressive.

This is 50 rounds of American Eagle FMJ 180g from a Glock 22. At 25 yards im sure it would open up more, but i do want to try it as you got me curious. Maybe these days off as its suppose to warm up to -7 or so.

I also try moving in closer to see what I can do at 7 yards or so.

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The only hits I can see at 25 yards with a B8 are the ones in the white.

If you want to compare your scores to others in this thread you really should use the target provided in the link.
 
Clobbersauras said:
The only hits I can see at 25 yards with a B8 are the ones in the white.

If you want to compare your scores to others in this thread you really should use the target provided in the link.
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8 inch circle but that was 16 not 25. so the holes in the white are 16 yards not 25. i saw others in the thread use different targets but i will print off yours ànd give it a try.
 
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Clobbersauras said:
That's because it's actually a very difficult task.

I'm positive we've had many members try this (actually at 25 yards) and not even bother posting their results because they have been so humbled by it. I hope they stick with it, as it will teach them a ton about trigger control, breathing, sight picture, grip, stance, all the fundamentals. But like I wrote earlier, once they try it at 25, and are not happy with their scores, move the target closer. Get comfortable at 3, 5, 7, and 10 yards and then start pushing the distance. Another thing to try is to push yourself out farther than 25. Try 50, or 75, or even 100 yards, then move back to 25. Your 25 yard target will feel incredibly close afterward.

I also recommend not switching between handguns. Pick a gun, stick with it, and wring as much performance out of it as you can. What Ganderite is doing is ridiculously hard to do consistently with so many different platforms. He can shoot!
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I'm going to try it from a rest next time just to make sure it's not my loads, I've never really checked to see if my handloads shoot well, just found something that cycled smoothly and left it at that. I have a hard enough time finding the time to do load development on my rifles. Since I rarely take my pistols with me I don't spend the time to tune them or my skills. I was much better years ago when I used to shoot them all the time.
I guess I need to stop leaving them at home when I go to the range :)
 
Tried this at the range today just because this thread has piqued my curiosity. I'm still a newbie and by no means ready for 25 yards, but it's only ten rounds, and was fun to try and challenge myself. Even in just those ten shots I learned a lot. All things considered I did better than I thought I would, I was impressed I even hit the paper with 7/10 shots. When I can figure out how to post pictures I will (read: transfer them from iphone to photobucket), but I ended up shooting a 62 2x assuming I scored correctly. I'll try this again in a few months after I get some formal training and some more range time, hopefully I see some improvement!

*edit* forgot to add, this was done with my Sig P226.

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Targets printed, can't wait to give this a go!

I'll shoot a few different guns of different calibre like many others have and see how I do. Predictions: Not fantastic as I'm relatively new to shooting but I do enjoy it.

This is a great excuse to make the range time a real challenge instead of the usual shoot the corners off the pages etc!!
 
Decided to play today. Unfortunately my range maxes out at 20m. It seems that there's a number of us with that limitation. Maybe start tracking 20m scores? Should that be in a new thread?

Anyway, here's my work from today. I forgot to print out targets before I left, so I shot at some 20yd ISSF targets, then placed them on top of the NRA 25 yard target and poked a Sharpie through the bullet hole once I got home. Sorry that the Sharpie doesn't show up well on the black area. In the name of complete transparency, both targets are posted for each pistol. This is my first time shooting at this distance for any sort of score so there's tons of room for improvement as my scores show.

First up is a Browning Buckmark firing Winchester bulk 333 36gr. If you look at the two shots high right on the IISF, those were my first two shots as I attempted to sight in a gun I've had since Friday. I just had no clue where to hold at that distance. I scored it as a 68-X, with one miss. Although the ISSF target shows 10 hits, only 9 made it onto the regular paper.
Buckmark-NRA.jpg

Buckmark-Org.jpg


Next is my GSG 1911 shooting 36gr CCI Mini-Mags. I was happy I got all 10 on the NRA paper this time. 77-X
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Last is my M&P9 shooting 124gr FMJ with 5.6gr of HS-6. 76, with a huge miss out to left field if you look at the ISSF target. Arms were getting tired. I should've put the pistol down instead of taking the shot.
MP9-NRA.jpg

MP9-Org.jpg


A couple of observations. With the 22's, I had to hold the top of the sights around the bottom of the black area. With the M&P, I had to drive the dot as my first couple shots were low using the same hold.
 
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