32days and 1472$ later

[sendero]

Wow

No thanks, not worth the hassle.

WOW, What a service, i even don't ask a price, i didn't shop around, i just need one, free advertising for you my friend, i'll have a barrel anyway and you know it too.

mabye JEC was right here, post #13 was interestig
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298054

Anyway, i wont go furter, i have what i whant (my action), i have the proof that i whant (post #13), and you have what you deserve (your free publicity), and if some one need help, i'll do it in PM

(P.S. I have edited my post so there is no missunderstanding, my intent was to help people with the best informations possible, to have what some can't or wont give us, nothing more, it's not the purpose of this excellent forum?? helping each other ?? but some don't like it... now at least we know that...too)

Thank's to all

Respecfully
Sendero

 

[50calshooter]

WOW, What a service, i even don't ask a price, i didn't shop around, i just need one, free advertising for you my friend, i'll have a barrel anyway and you know it too.

mabye JEC was right here, post #13 was interestig
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298054

Anyway, i wont go furter, i have what i whant, i have the proof that i whant, and you have what you deserve, and if some one need help, i'll do it in PM

Thank's to all

Respecfully

Sendero

well yeah, I guess you just proved your point didn't you....??

 

[DRAGONSLAYER]

Ok im going to try this so ive got the paperwork down how does the action get registered here in Canada once it is imported or is it registered before it gets here.

 

[Obtunded]

If there is one thing I have learned - and Sendero's reference was a great example (I really wish I could post the emails and phone messages from this guy!! There are two sides to every story) - when you get an email (or in this case an antagonistic forum posting, not a personal request for information) ....

are you gonna help me or not, just because i have imported my own action and explained my frustation for the stupid answer i have received

......that starts out #####ing about why one has to pay what they do (Not a single question about the product, delivery time, options calibers etc.) , it can never lead anywhere good.

I would much rather be criticized for declining your business, than for never living up to the expectations you have or living down to the immediate contempt you expressed for the nature of the import/re-sale business.

I posted links up there for the forms and gave you hints as to how you can do it all yourself. Fly at it.

 

[DRAGONSLAYER]

When does the registration take place at teh time of import or after the importation has taken place.

 

[sendero]

When does the registration take place at teh time of import or after the importation has taken place.

When you receive it, you register it as a ACTION, sorry for my english but i'am a verifier and i usually use the term in french. The reason is that it's hard to have the serial number BEFORE you get it !!! It will go true the border like that, and you register it when you receive it !!!

If you need any info, it will be a pleasure to help you in PM or by e-mail
mab@cableamos.com

Hope it help you

Sendero

 

[Questar]

When does the registration take place at teh time of import or after the importation has taken place.

For an "individual" who is importing a firearm (a "frame only" or a complete gun) the CFC will allow you to register it prior to importation and subject to verification and confirmation after importation.

Canada Customs will usually not allow you to import the firearm if you can't show the registration certificate... and if the firearm is a "Restricted" then you'll need an ATT to transport it from port of entry to your storage location. In order to get the ATT you'll have to have the firearm registration certificate number so Restricted firearms (even the frame only action) need to be registered with CFC prior to importation.

This is easily done... just call CFC and tell them that you want to register a new importation. They will ask you for all of the information (Make, Model, Action Type, Serial #, calibre, barrel length, magazine capacity, etc.). You just need to make sure that the gun (when it arrives in Canada) is exactly as you stated when you called CFC. If there is a difference (barrel shorter or serial number not correct) then you'll need to contact CFC and have the registration information amended... they may require that you take it to a verified to have it confirmed, but that's NOT always required.

For business importers (companies with a BFL - Business Firearms License) the procedure is a bit different as we do NOT register until the gun is in Canada and we verify it. Our BFL incorporates into it our ATT and the Customs import paperwork serves as our Registration Certificate until actual registration is completed... we get our Registration Certificate numbers instantly at time of registration.

Mark

 

[Questar]

When you receive it, you register it as a ACTION, sorry for my english but i'am a verifier and i usually use the term in french. The reason is that it's hard to have the serial number BEFORE you get it !!! It will go true the border like that, and you register it when you receive it !!!

If you need any info, it will be a pleasure to help you in PM or by e-mail
mab@cableamos.com

Hope it help you

Sendero

If you don't mind my asking... how did you have the action shipped from Brownells? We're always trying to find a shipper who will handle cross border shipments from the US. Would really appreciate if you could let me know who you used to bring in the action.

Mark

 

[sendero]

Sendero, what was the exchange rate ? Was it high?

Can't remember when i have ordered what was the rate, around .80$CAD/1.00$ USD but i have 2 more comming in, should be here in 2 - 3 week from now i'll let you know for shure OR if Mark need a copy of my invoice, i'll check it out and let you know.

MARK from QUESTAR, Thank's for the info, really appreciate, i don't know if it was a mistake but i even have ordered lower AR (last year, stripped from DPMS) and i only register it once here ???
The LOWER and SURGEON was shipped by USPO (around 30$USD) and delivred here at my local CANADA POST OFFICE, i have paid the GST and QST to get my package and that's it.
If you whant me to scan the papers and e-mail them to you, if it can help you, i'll do it for sure. i have added on my import form the MORE details i can, even a pic of the action and explained that it CAN'T fire as it is disasembled, trigger, stock and barrel missing, mabye it helped me ?? let me konw if i can do something Mark.

I found sad that some have pee on me, i have do that only to help members here after my bad experience, now i feel better as i have received a phone call from Brownells after my last order to thank's me because they have a LOT order increase on thoses action since i have ordered my first one !!!. Sound like i have helped some CGN member here and that was my first and only goal, we will see some nice rifle here soon.

Respectfully

Sendero

 

[Questar]

Can't remember when i have ordered what was the rate, around .80$CAD/1.00$ USD but i have 2 more comming in, should be here in 2 - 3 week from now i'll let you know for shure OR if Mark need a copy of my invoice, i'll check it out and let you know.

MARK from QUESTAR, Thank's for the info, really appreciate, i don't know if it was a mistake but i even have ordered lower AR (last year, stripped from DPMS) and i only register it once here ???
The LOWER and SURGEON was shipped by USPO (around 30$USD) and delivred here at my local CANADA POST OFFICE, i have paid the GST and QST to get my package and that's it.
If you whant me to scan the papers and e-mail them to you, if it can help you, i'll do it for sure. i have added on my import form the MORE details i can, even a pic of the action and explained that it CAN'T fire as it is disasembled, trigger, stock and barrel missing, mabye it helped me ?? let me konw if i can do something Mark.

I found sad that some have pee on me, i have do that only to help members here after my bad experience, now i feel better as i have received a phone call from Brownells after my last order to thank's me because they have a LOT order increase on thoses action since i have ordered my first one !!!. Sound like i have helped some CGN member here and that was my first and only goal, we will see some nice rifle here soon.

Respectfully

Sendero

That is interesting what you say. It is against US law for the US Postal Service to ship a firearm across the border to Canada... they may have shipped it to you but they are not legally allowed to do that and according to US law a stripped lower receiver is a firearm. It is also against the law here in Canada for Canada Post to handle the transportation of a firearm internationally (accross the border either into or out of Canada). Canada Post is NOT licensed as an international carrier.

When the USPS gave the "firearm" to Canada Post they both committed offences according to the laws in both countries. We have asked the USPS if they will ship firearms from our US office to Canada and they refuse saying it's not legal. We also asked Canada Post the same thing and they say the same thing. CFC has also confirmed that Canada Post cannot legally transport a firearm across the border (in either direction) as they do not have a transport license to do so.

While you appear to have been lucky and had this shpment get through... it does not change the fact that these "firearms" are not being legally transported from the US to Canada and sooner or later you may run into trouble. The fact that these are "actions" or "stripped receivers" does not change the fact that BOTH Canada and the US view them as "firearms" with serial number frames and requiring tracking and control. Don't take my word for it, contact someone in authority at both USPS and Canada Post. If you look on the Canada Post website they are very clear about the fact that they cannot and do not transport firearms internationally... the same is stated clearly on the CFC website.

This is one of the "problems" that currently exists with importing firearms from the US to Canada. UPS, FEDEX, Canada Post, USPS, etc. have all stopped handling cross border shipments of firearms. Air Canada is one of the few commercial carriers still licensed and willing to transport firearms over the border and the conditions they place on those shipments are quite restrictive... not to mention the fees they are charging just for the transport. This is partly what has been driving up transport costs for importers.

We do our own transport. To do so we had to get licensed on both sides of the border with both the Canadian and the US departments of Transport. We are licensed carriers BOTH in Canada and the US specifically allowing us to transport our firearm imports and exports. There are a few freight forwarders that I believe are still doing it but their rates are quite high and again they have restrictions that would eliminate a small 1 or 2 gun shipment by an individual.

If you had a DPMS stripped lower arrive at your local post office... you picked it up and took it home, then verified it and called in the registration to CFC once you got it home, then you commited a variety of offences in the process... besides the laws that were broken by US Postal Service and by Canada Post...

- You transported a Restricted Firearm without an ATT
- You were in possession of an unregistered firearm
- You were transporting a Restricted Firearm without a copy of the Registration Certificate in your possession

Do not take my word for this... please contact CFC, Canada Post and the US Postal Service and ask them if what I'm saying is correct. I'd love to find out that they would do these things but all of the information that we have and that is published by these agencies states clearly that it's not legal.

Everything you did was great... I've always said that for people who live close to the border, working with a US exporter is not difficult and once you get your paperwork in order meeting the exporter at the border point is a much less expensive way of doing import/exports. But if you can't eliminate the need to have the gun shipped across the border then you've got a problem because shipping firearms (the physical movement of the guns) over the border is the biggest hangup these days to imports... that and finding a registered US exporter who is willing and able to process the export permits.

Mark

 

[sendero]

Thank's for your help, i really appreciate, l'll check it out with CFC as they NEVER told me i was wrong, you know more than then them and i wish they give me the info on the very first AR lower i have imported !! for sure, i don't whant to be in trouble for few part's i'am importing....

Sendero

 

[Questar]

Thank's for your help, i really appreciate, l'll check it out with CFC as they NEVER told me i was wrong, you know more than then them and i wish they give me the info on the very first AR lower i have imported !! for sure, i don't whant to be in trouble for few part's i'am importing....

Sendero

Call your Quebec CFO and ask them what the law is with respect to you taking possession at the Post Office of a Restricted Firearm (a stripped lower AR receiver) that is neither registered and for which you do not possess a Registration Certificate.

Also ask them if you can transport that unregistered stripped lower receiver from the Post Office to your home.

I'll be surprised if they tell you it's okay and that you just need to call CFC once you get it home.

What is supposed to happen is Canada Customs (if they know it's a firearm) are supposed to hold that item until you can show them a copy of your Registration Certificate for the firearm and a copy of your ATT to transport the firearm (if it's a Restricted... non-restricted would not need the ATT but they do need proof of registration). Without that Customs is supposed to release the firearm... and a stripped lower or serial numbered action is classified as a firearm in this country.

Mark

 

[olegs69]

Call your Quebec CFO and ask them...

Mark

Whoopty-do. Crap on the guy since he did something cross-border without the blessings of a the high and mighty "dealers".

If CSBA thought the act was illegal they would have held the part.
If CFO cared, they would have called the cops.

But then again, the guy did transport a hunk of metal. Think of the children...

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Whoopty-do. Crap on the guy since he did something cross-border without the blessings of a the high and mighty "dealers".

If CSBA thought the act was illegal they would have held the part.
If CFO cared, they would have called the cops.

But then again, the guy did transport a hunk of metal. Think of the children...

I think you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with dealers, it has to do with 2 countries laws. I don't like the laws either, but abide by them as I have FAR too much at stake.

It would seem that many government officials on both sides of the border were asleep at their jobs. Nice to see our hard earned money at work isn't it???
Questar is 100% correct on the laws and the fact that Sendero got REAL lucky.
This thread could have had a whole different spin IF any of the governments officials were awake when these parts came across. Sendero would be out the parts, large fines would have been assessed, chances of his being person non grata in the US would be very high, and there would have been LOTS of whining about the fact that stuff was seized.

I believe the whole point of this thread was to illustrate that Joe consumer CAN import stuff from the US, AND legally, in this case there were some things that were done unlawfully, mostly on the part of the supplier and partly from not having ALL the info on how to do it 100% right so as to avaoid any possible hassles.

IF Sendero had been stopped on his way home from the post office, say for a minor traffic infraction, and IF the cop had his poop in a pile and found the AR lower and demanded proof of registratation and an ATT things could have gone very ugly for him. Especially in a province known for stricter gun law enforcement than some.

I believe Questar is simply trying to point out that there were potential points of serious issue with the way this transpired and that for future reference guys would know how to do it correctly.

Like it or not, the more guys brag on various forums about how they got away with this or that, and I am not saying that was senderos point, but there have been many threads of late where that is exactly what has been the intent, the assorted government agencies will continue to make legitimate international trade tougher and tougher under the guise of illegal exportation being a means for crime and terrorism to continually arm up.
This is evidenced by the fact that 2 years ago it was far easier to import firearms and parts than it is today, imagine what next year will bring, especially with some individuals continually taking a stick to the hornets nest.

The mere fact that someone is trying to do it the right way is irrelevant in governments eyes, a simple look at the well intentioned gun laws should make this obvious.

 

[Savage]

I forgot the best one:

If your import totals more than $1600 CDN, you are required to complete a Customs B3 Form. I will leave it to you to figure this one out, including commodity coding and how the exchange is calculated.

The alternative is to use a shipping company or customs broker and you can pay them the 8% of value to broker your shipment for you

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/b3-3/b3-3-fill-04b.pdf

And add to the fact as an individual you cannot use a Customs broker you are required to do all the paperwork yourself .

 

[Westicle]

Obtunded,

good call.. because all of us KNOW as soon as you sold him something he would complain of the price ad how he could have got it cheaper....

without supporting canadian dealers we are cutting out own throats.... with obama in office we are just going to bleed out faster as the USA becomes more protectionist.

 

[olegs69]

I think you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with dealers, it has to do with 2 countries laws. I don't like the laws either, but abide by them as I have FAR too much at stake.

Maybe Sandrero broke the law.

That is not the point.
The point is that Questar went through great effort to point that fact out.

Maybe Sandrero also stepped on some toes.

 

[Savage]

I see a few things wrong with Senderos venture
1 Failed to register receivers prior to importation into Canada
2 The use of USPS / Canada Post to ship his merchandise into Canada
BTW the only other company that will transport firearms into Canada in is Air Canada .

Tiger Courier will not handle firearms shipments even though they are listed as such there policy is that you must have a business agreement in place before hand to ship with them

 

[Questar]

Maybe Sandrero broke the law.

That is not the point.
The point is that Questar went through great effort to point that fact out.

Maybe Sandrero also stepped on some toes.

I'm sorry you feel that way... certainly was not my intent to step on Sandrero or beat him up... what I thought I was doing was trying to inform him of the legalities, not only to assist him in future imports he might do but also to educate others who were reading his posts and could easily have been steered in the wrong direction... a direction that could have gotten them in trouble.

Anyone who knows me knows that I've helped hundred of people do their own imports over the past few years and have happily given people the information involved. Anyone who thinks I'm upset because Sandrero did his own importation does not know me or my motivations.

You interpret my POST as "going through great effort" to point out Sandrero did something illegal... I thought I was going through great effort to explain to him where he may have been in violation of the law so that he and others who might follow his instructions wouldn't get themselves in trouble. I thought I was doing a service... I guess I won't make that mistake again.

Regardless... people are fast to yell "no one told me" when they get caught and charged with firearms offences... but when I tell someone what the legalities are I get people who s**t on me suggesting that I'm just pissed that the guy didn't use a dealer. You believe what you want but nothing could be further from the truth.

Mark

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

I'm sorry you feel that way... certainly was not my intent to step on Sandrero or beat him up... what I thought I was doing was trying to inform him of the legalities, not only to assist him in future imports he might do but also to educate others who were reading his posts and could easily have been steered in the wrong direction... a direction that could have gotten them in trouble.

Anyone who knows me knows that I've helped hundred of people do their own imports over the past few years and have happily given people the information involved. Anyone who thinks I'm upset because Sandrero did his own importation does not know me or my motivations.

You interpret my POST as "going through great effort" to point out Sandrero did something illegal... I thought I was going through great effort to explain to him where he may have been in violation of the law so that he and others who might follow his instructions wouldn't get themselves in trouble. I thought I was doing a service... I guess I won't make that mistake again.

Regardless... people are fast to yell "no one told me" when they get caught and charged with firearms offences... but when I tell someone what the legalities are I get people who s**t on me suggesting that I'm just pissed that the guy didn't use a dealer. You believe what you want but nothing could be further from the truth.

Mark

Mark I think most of us "evil greedy dealers" are all on this same page. Trying to EDUCATE others, but they don't either like the answers or don't want to hear them. They surely do like to whine when they get pinched, I noticed a "big bad government seized my stuff" thread in optics the other day.

Quite frankly I do not know why any of us bother, all we get when we point out the facts is crap and abuse or called crooks because we are in business.

Doing lawful international trade has costs as you are well aware.

USPS is FAR cheaper ( but illegal) to ship actions across the border than with a bonded air freight carrier, as us dealers (highway robbers) have to legally ship freight with in order to avoid harsh fines or loosing our licenses.
The freight and brokerage add SIGNIFANTLY to an import cost that gets the product into Canada through legal means for those of us who live too far from a commercial border crossing to get to.

I don't know about you , but I know I have been trashed on enough for trying to help guys NOT loose stuff or getting jacked up because of not knowing the truth about importing.