338 vs 300 win?

[track]

I bet this thread would be a lot shorter if only people who had shot an elk or moose posted in it.


Not to mention with the chamberings...

7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm STW. I have 9 elk under my belt and a few moose. Last moose was killed with my double rifle, 9.3x74R.
If the 6.5, 7mm and 300 PRC existed in the yester-years, I would of quaddrupled my kills........................yea right. If our forefathers killed with 38-55's, well.......................

 

[MTM]

Guess I’ll add that while I’ve shot Moose with a few different calibers I’ve only shot Elk with a 340 wby and 416 Remington. Guess I lean towards bigger is better.

 

[bearhunter]

The last Elk I shot was with an 8x57 Mauser, using 196 grain Oryx bullets @ 2600fps.

225 yds, high on the lungs and took out the arteries just under the spine on a broadside shot. He staggered about 10 meters and went down, fully expired before I walked up to him.

Hit them right, the first time is the secret.

I've got nothing against the big magnum cartridges as they do allow the shooter to extend the range for effective shots, most shooters don't shoot their magnums well, for all sorts of reasons.

Nothing new here, but magnum cartridges are not magic wands.

If I had to choose between the magnum cartridges, I would go with the largest diameter/heaviest bullet I could handle. That's what magnums are about, delivering as much energy as possible on the target, hopefully where it does the job.

 

[pathfinder76]

7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm STW. I have 9 elk under my belt and a few moose. Last moose was killed with my double rifle, 9.3x74R.

Aren’t we talking about 300’s and 338’s?

 

[Gatehouse]

Did you ever even notice that much of a difference in say, how far a similarly hit moose traveled before goin hooves up?

None of the moose I have shot went very far, regardless of what used. 7-08, 7RM, 300s, 338, 375s etc. The 375 and 300s might have been a bit faster than the 7-08.

 

[Blackcats]

Why do you want to hurt yourself ! Never shot an Elk but have taken numerous Moose & 2 Black Bear & several deer over the years with a 308 Win. Bullet placement is everything ! Just my 180 gr. !

 

[Hmatt]

Why do you want to hurt yourself ! Never shot an Elk but have taken numerous Moose & 2 Black Bear & several deer over the years with a 308 Win. Bullet placement is everything ! Just my 180 gr. !

Because why not?

 

[Dogleg]

.338 is my main deer gun, kinda heavy at 8 1/4 lbs scoped. Shot lots of game with a 300 as well. Pretty funny people making such a big deal out of recoil. Ya I guess if you can only shoot little guns then shoot little guns.

Thing is a 300 is a little gun (though close to the blurry line) and 338 is barely a medium in the big picture. While people are forming support groups to discuss where the bad little gun touched them, and how it made them feel; others are shooting rifles with double the recoil. Or double that again, and walking away unscathed with big grins on their faces.
Recoil is mostly mental, perceived recoil is entirely mental.

 

[dgradinaru]

For me it ouais either 30-06 or 9.3x62 or 8x57, all kill moose easily all the way to 300 yards and more( but never had to shoot past 280m) didn’t see much difference between the 3 to be honest!

This mirrors my experience as well. Between properly loaded 7x64 w/ 175gr at 2740 fps, 30-06 w/180-200's, 8x57 w/ 195-200's, 9.3x62 285gr, 338 win mag w/225gr's, I couldn't tell the difference on killing/knock down power on deer, black bear, and some moose. Some fall, some do the 25-40 yard death dash.

In saying that, between the two I'd be leaning towards the 300 win mag loaded with 220gr ELD-x at 2800 fps. Very flat shooting with great B.C. and accuracy. The 338 win, still a good choice though and wouldn't have a problem using one again.

300 win with 220gr ELD-X at 200y pictured below.

 

[track]

Thing is a 300 is a little gun (though close to the blurry line) and 338 is barely a medium in the big picture. While people are forming support groups to discuss where the bad little gun touched them, and how it made them feel; others are shooting rifles with double the recoil. Or double that again, and walking away unscathed with big grins on their faces.
Recoil is mostly mental, perceived recoil is entirely mental.

It's called the Pavlov theory, "operant conditioning.".............studied it in law.

 

[Joel]

Thing is a 300 is a little gun (though close to the blurry line) and 338 is barely a medium in the big picture. While people are forming support groups to discuss where the bad little gun touched them, and how it made them feel; others are shooting rifles with double the recoil. Or double that again, and walking away unscathed with big grins on their faces.
Recoil is mostly mental, perceived recoil is entirely mental.

From not a recoil junkie by any means but someone quite fond of the 375 H&H and 375 Ruger...

No ones shooting those big guns as good as they are small guns. Is what it is

Good enough, sure. As good? Nope.

For me it ouais either 30-06 or 9.3x62 or 8x57, all kill moose easily all the way to 300 yards and more( but never had to shoot past 280m) didn’t see much difference between the 3 to be honest!

This mirrors my experience as well. Between properly loaded 7x64 w/ 175gr at 2740 fps, 30-06 w/180-200's, 8x57 w/ 195-200's, 9.3x62 285gr, 338 win mag w/225gr's, I couldn't tell the difference on killing/knock down power on deer, black bear, and some moose. Some fall, some do the 25-40 yard death dash.

None of the moose I have shot went very far, regardless of what used. 7-08, 7RM, 300s, 338, 375s etc. The 375 and 300s might have been a bit faster than the 7-08.

The last Elk I shot was with an 8x57 Mauser, using 196 grain Oryx bullets @ 2600fps.

225 yds, high on the lungs and took out the arteries just under the spine on a broadside shot. He staggered about 10 meters and went down, fully expired before I walked up to him.

Hit them right, the first time is the secret.

And there's the whole diminishing returns thing, right there. Reminds me of the Swedish study/survey about how far moose traveled when hit with different cartridges and it was a wash, just like this. They're all much more alike than they are different.

dgradinaru, cool pictures!

 

[Dogleg]

It's called the Pavlov theory, "operant conditioning.".............studied it in law.

So lets agree on the conditioning part. Some must happen.

Is shooting the reward and recoil the punishment? Or is it recoil is the reward and cost is the punishment? What if hitting was the reward and missing was the punishment? Or maybe hitting hard is its own reward and there is no punishment, while recoil is dismissed as irrelevent?

Maybe there’s federal grant available so I can do a study on it

 

[geologist]

Or be cool and different and go with a .338-06.

 

[guntech]

Well the .338 Win Mag and the .300 Win Mag are both very powerful and acceptable cartridges for moose and elk however there are many less powerful cartridges that will do the job as well.
I have used a .243, a 6.5 x 57, a 25/06, a 7mm/08 and a .338/06.

They all dropped... the 7mm/08 did perform really well at 328 yards

 

[jjohnwm]

From not a recoil junkie by any means but someone quite fond of the 375 H&H and 375 Ruger...

No ones shooting those big guns as good as they are small guns. Is what it is

Good enough, sure. As good? Nope.

I hear and read this ^ constantly, and I agree with it in principle...except...

...I really think you need to clarify what you mean by "shoot as good". How many shots are we talking about?

I'm also an admirer of the .375H&H, the .338WM and a bunch of others that are spoken of in hushed whispers by many posters. If I were to sit down at the bench and start shooting and shooting and shooting, there is absolutely no question that I would reach the point where my accuracy started to go to hell sooner with a .375 than with a .223; I wouldn't dream of denying that. I also won't deny that a drop in accuracy will eventually occur with the .22 as well...but it's gonna take hundreds of rounds at a sitting, so will likely never be seen.

But...and it's a big "but"...if you have practiced with a bigger gun and become accustomed to firing it, there is absolutely no practical reason why you should not be able to fire a group or a couple groups or a box of ammo with it and be every bit as accurate as you are with a .22 rimfire. None. Zero. Note that I said "practical" reason.

But...there's still the imaginary reason. If you pick up a .375 and shoot a 6-inch group, it's because all the doomsayers have messed with your head; you "know" it's gonna hurt, because they've all told you it will; some of them "know" it will because they've actually shot one...poorly...but most of them are just passing on this wisdom from other terrified experts. By the time you load up and aim and finally squeeze the trigger, you're breathing hard, your anal sphincter is clenched like a fist and you're sweating bullets. Of course you're not going to shoot it well.

I know I can shoot a cold group from my favourite .375 that is every bit as good as that from my .223 coyote gun; several groups, actually. I know that I can probably get to about 15-18 shots before I can see and feel my concentration and accuracy starting to go downhill with the bigger gun. So guess what? I stop before I get there! I'm never going to be doing high-volume shooting with the .375; it's not a ground squirrel gun, it's a big game rifle and as long as I know what my limits are it's easy to stay within them and to enjoy shooting it. For the one or the couple of shots I will take on a hunt, I will be thinking about the game and my sight picture and my hold and breathing; I won't be quaking in fear because, oh my God, I have to shoot this horrible rifle again! I can concentrate on the shot.

One of the pea-shooter guys will likely make some sarcastic crack that it's actually my .223 groups that are just as bad as my .375 groups; that's okay, believe what you want to believe. Just remember that belief and truth are not always, or even usually, the same thing. Practice, learn to shoot the bigger gun, don't overdo it at any one time to the point where you start to finch, and you will find yourself shooting it very well and, yes, enjoying its use on game. And at that point, trust me, you won't give a crap about what the naysayers think.

 

[MTM]

I hear and read this ^ constantly, and I agree with it in principle...except...

...I really think you need to clarify what you mean by "shoot as good". How many shots are we talking about?

I'm also an admirer of the .375H&H, the .338WM and a bunch of others that are spoken of in hushed whispers by many posters. If I were to sit down at the bench and start shooting and shooting and shooting, there is absolutely no question that I would reach the point where my accuracy started to go to hell sooner with a .375 than with a .223; I wouldn't dream of denying that. I also won't deny that a drop in accuracy will eventually occur with the .22 as well...but it's gonna take hundreds of rounds at a sitting, so will likely never be seen.

But...and it's a big "but"...if you have practiced with a bigger gun and become accustomed to firing it, there is absolutely no practical reason why you should not be able to fire a group or a couple groups or a box of ammo with it and be every bit as accurate as you are with a .22 rimfire. None. Zero. Note that I said "practical" reason.

But...there's still the imaginary reason. If you pick up a .375 and shoot a 6-inch group, it's because all the doomsayers have messed with your head; you "know" it's gonna hurt, because they've all told you it will; some of them "know" it will because they've actually shot one...poorly...but most of them are just passing on this wisdom from other terrified experts. By the time you load up and aim and finally squeeze the trigger, you're breathing hard, your anal sphincter is clenched like a fist and you're sweating bullets. Of course you're not going to shoot it well.

I know I can shoot a cold group from my favourite .375 that is every bit as good as that from my .223 coyote gun; several groups, actually. I know that I can probably get to about 15-18 shots before I can see and feel my concentration and accuracy starting to go downhill with the bigger gun. So guess what? I stop before I get there! I'm never going to be doing high-volume shooting with the .375; it's not a ground squirrel gun, it's a big game rifle and as long as I know what my limits are it's easy to stay within them and to enjoy shooting it. For the one or the couple of shots I will take on a hunt, I will be thinking about the game and my sight picture and my hold and breathing; I won't be quaking in fear because, oh my God, I have to shoot this horrible rifle again! I can concentrate on the shot.

One of the pea-shooter guys will likely make some sarcastic crack that it's actually my .223 groups that are just as bad as my .375 groups; that's okay, believe what you want to believe. Just remember that belief and truth are not always, or even usually, the same thing. Practice, learn to shoot the bigger gun, don't overdo it at any one time to the point where you start to finch, and you will find yourself shooting it very well and, yes, enjoying its use on game. And at that point, trust me, you won't give a crap about what the naysayers think.

We’ll said

 

[MTM]

Well said

 

[Joel]

Honestly?

I'd say do like the Rokslide guys do and try a 7 MOA target from standing, 5 MOA from kneeling, 2 MOA prone and see how you compare putting two shots at each. For accuracy and time. See how you compare with your big rifle vs a small rifle. Or, shoot against someone of equal skill where they have the small rifle.

Or

Would you be willing to set up a row of say, Tims medium cups at 100 yards and shoot your big boomer against me with a 223, offhand, for a decent sum of money per cup? Not saying I'm a great shot. I'm not. Replace with anyone you want, as long as they aren't Mr Magoo. But we don't need to pretend as far as the outcome goes. The guy with the big boomer gets whupped and goes home broke and we all know it.

But really any fair comparison of how well you shoot a smaller rifle vs how well you shoot a bigger rifle, with field conditions. The one thing that unifies everyone who disparages the idea that they do much worse with the big rifle is that they've never tried to compare.

Says something right there.

And if they did, it will mean confronting some realities someone might not like

 

[MTM]

Honestly?

I'd say do like the Rokslide guys do and try a 7 MOA target from standing, 5 MOA from kneeling, 2 MOA prone and see how you compare putting two shots at each. For accuracy and time.

Or

Would you be willing to set up a row of say, Tims medium cups at 100 yards and shoot your big boomer against me with a 223, offhand, for a decent sum of money per cup? Not saying I'm a great shot. I'm not. Replace with anyone you want, as long as they aren't Mr Magoo. But I think we'd all know what the outcome would be. The guy with the big boomer gets whupped and goes home broke and we all know it.

But really any fair comparison of how well you shoot a smaller rifle vs how well you shoot a bigger rifle, with field conditions. The one thing that unifies everyone who disparages the idea that they do much worse with the big rifle is that they've never tried to compare.

Says something right there.

We are talking hunting. Do bench guys shoot 338s no of course not. Want to ask if serious guys go after moose and elk with bench guns but don’t want to offend.

 

[Joel]

We are talking hunting. Do bench guys shoot 338s no of course not. Want to ask if serious guys go after moose and elk with bench guns but don’t want to offend.

Bruh, you drunker than I am before 5:00?

You're right, talking about offhand shots, kneeling shots, and prone off a ruck have NO place in hunting. Ever. At all

Who said bench anything? Gotta actually read posts, my guy.