A good slug, like a Brenneke, will act as a solid,and penetrate well...And it's .75 caliber or something...
Again, up close, they will all work. But I'd still take a .375 H&H class cartridge with TSX bullets over any of the others..
45-70 vs. 375H&H for up close
- Thread starter hansol
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A good slug, like a Brenneke, will act as a solid,and penetrate well...And it's .75 caliber or something...
Again, up close, they will all work. But I'd still take a .375 H&H class cartridge with TSX bullets over any of the others..
This depends on your choice of 45-70, I have five of them and my Ruger #1 launches 500 grain Hornadys at 1900 fps or 350's at about 2100 I would rather have it in my hands than any .375. My latest is a , it hold nine 450 grain hard cast going around 1600, nice to have 4050 grains of hard cast available at the flick of your wrist
COOL Bunny...
Do you find the longer barrel on the Marlin 1895 cowboy gives more velocity than shorter barrels?
Have any data to share on this?
I have a guide gun. Pm me if you wish.
For the "I'm going to get my bullet back" and the bullet's still snapping and snarling up close and personal, I'd rather have my .45-70 than anything. Came up with a new load - a 500 gr TSX, cut off the tip to increase front diameter and still fit the action @ 2.550 OAL and able to be fed from the tube. Load workup was very simple - kept adding 3031 until very full. One slightly stiff extraction, dropped a half grain and done. A 455 gr TSX that can probably do an end to end pass through on a frontal shot. Designed for one thing only - within shotgun range when it's going to bite back. Too expensive to really toy with, but they'll do the job as is - 1 1/2" group at 50 yards. Pretty sure recoil wouldn't be felt if it's coming after you.
A few years ago I got an order of 550 grain "Crater" cast bullets from the states. I took a large black bear with this bullet in my 45-70. I was shooting from under 50 yds at a bait sight. Only using a trickle of powder to keep recoil down, that bullet destroyed both front shoulders on that bear and kept right on going. I was very impressed with the performance and can only imagine what a full charge of powder from my Ruger #1 and this bullet would do to any animal at close range!!
- Location
- In the clock tower!!
I'm a big fan of the 375H&H.
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
Speaking of heavy wide flat nosed bullets.... what if I see a bear before all my shiny new ones show up?
haha... joking.. please still let me have my order .. heh heh ..
Ryan
haha... joking.. please still let me have my order .. heh heh ..
Ryan
I have not run the 450 grain load out of the 26" barrel of my cowboy gun over my crony yet, but Iam sure it is going at least 1600fps the load info I got said it should be close to 1750?. Iam currently loading for a Ruger#1, Ruger#3,Marlin guide gun,Marlin Cowboy, and a trapdoor sprinfield. I hope to get out tomorrow do some side by side velocity experiments comparing the two extemes of Marlin barrel lengths. I can report that my favorite hunting load 45 grains of IMR 4198 with the Hornady 350 does 1900 out of my #1 and averages 1830 out of the guide gun. Out of the #1 I have cronograghed the 350 at 2100 fps with 52 grains of 4198 making this a 250 yard "anything that walks" gun and the 500 grain soft point at 1800 with 48 grains of 4198. I have over the years come to the conclusion that pushing the 350 grain hornady to speeds over 1900 or so is a waist of time, exept to make it shoot a little flatter. I tested this load side by side with a 30-06 with 180 grain slugs, I tested on a cotton wood stump 5 feet thick the 180 grain bullets penetrated about 16" mushroomed nicely and stopped, the 350 at 1830 from the guide gun completly penetrated 5 feet!! For the last year or so I have been shooting bulk Remington 405 grain bullets from my guide gun with 40 grains of 4198 they go 1550 fps and are comfortable to shoot, accurate and very deadly. If I get out tomorrow with my chrony I will post my results, I will also be taking my .458 #1 tropical with some recently loaded 500 fmj round nose with 65 grains of 4198 at about 2100 fps, should be a fun day,I think I will go and put a couple ice packs in the freezer for my shoulder!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'm with Ben on this one. You cut a 500 gr bullet so it looses its balance and flight characteristics, reduce its mass, and its ability to expand. Clearly a hard cast 480 gr .458 slug is a better choice from the standpoint of cost and performance. If you want a jacketed 500 gr bullet that is not pointed, there are many to choose from, one to suit every budget, either expanding or solid.
On to the question. When we say short range I immediately think 50 yards and in. For this type of work my vote is for the .45/70 although I prefer a .45 caliber rifle with more velocity than is available from the .45/70 or the .458 Winchester for that matter. A 500 @ 2400 would be nice, particularly if you are in a situation where a solid is the proper choice of bullet.
The 380 gr Rhino bullet fired from a .375 with a large powder capacity is a good choice and may even eclipse the performance of the small capacity .45's as expansion can approach one inch at short range on some game and the high impact velocity ensures good penetration. But when we compare the more common .375 loadings, the .45's larger frontal area displaces more tissue, and would be the clear winner in any reasonable comparison.
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I'm interested in that cut off TSX bullet I have a box of 450gr TSX just sitting there doing absolutely nothing on my shelf, I bought them thinking thay were a different configuration...
Time to experiment...
This thinking that the 375 will out penetrate a 45-70 is just wrong it won't other in specific cases like Gates TSX example.
The main difference is energy transfer a faster 375 will tranfer more energy than a 45-70 but it won't out penetrate it.
Me I'd take the 45-70 for up close and personal...
Time to experiment...
This thinking that the 375 will out penetrate a 45-70 is just wrong it won't other in specific cases like Gates TSX example.
The main difference is energy transfer a faster 375 will tranfer more energy than a 45-70 but it won't out penetrate it.
Me I'd take the 45-70 for up close and personal...
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Do you think a solid 45/70 bullet will out penetrate a solid .375 bullet?
Do you think an expanding 45/70 bullet will out penetrate an expanding .375 bullet?
I've seen all the stories of heavy hard cast bullets in 45/70 penetrating like hell, and of course they do, but it stands to reason that a bullet of solid design, but going faster should out penetrate the slower one.
Although, as I said before- I am sure both will work for the job as described.
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Yes, correct, I made a mistake on the last comment, as of course a 200gr soft point form a 300 is going to penetrate more than a 150 gr soft point form the same 300, as it will rapidly expand and lose weight!
I edited above comment to change it to solid design, which I was getting at.
I edited above comment to change it to solid design, which I was getting at.
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I'd be satisifed with either my 45-70 GG or my .375 H&H rifle at close range. The deciding factor for me is whether or not I have to carry it long distances. The GG is much handier to carry and so I prefer it for walking in the field. My .375 H&H, although shortened is still heavier and longer than the GG. I prefer to use it more as a camp rifle.
The exception to the above is in the high arctic where I (or my helper) would gladly carry the weight of the degreased CRF .375 H&H bolt rifle for the polar bears in exchange for its greater range and mechanical reliablity over the GG.
The exception to the above is in the high arctic where I (or my helper) would gladly carry the weight of the degreased CRF .375 H&H bolt rifle for the polar bears in exchange for its greater range and mechanical reliablity over the GG.
