90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

Just curious, how does RL-15 compare to varget for temp stability? Is it bad enough that you wouldn't use it? ( I do realize you have to weigh it though)
 
Never got that far to test Re 15 but it should be in the right burn range.

Depending on who you ask, Re15 is considered temp sensitive. Big reason there is the new AR Comp which is Re15 treated to be temp stable. Certainly something to try when/if it ever gets here.

Jerry
 
Hmm, this AR comp sounds like a worthy candidate. I see a lot of guys on the web ranting about rl 15's long range accuracy with heavier .223 pills.
I was wondering about the temp stuff because I recently found big velocity changes in my .223 AI with 15, shooting the 53 gr vmax (yes I realize its a light bullet for this powder)
At 15 degrees C I was getting about 3350 av. fps, at 24 deg it was around 3430, then on a 31 degree cooker day it was 3480 fps. Luckily I was using a light load as the velocity really climbed.
I thought this was really huge variation and wondered if its actually my F1 chroney?
 
Rl 15

flyinlead said:
Just curious, how does RL-15 compare to varget for temp stability? Is it bad enough that you wouldn't use it? ( I do realize you have to weigh it though)
Click to expand...

RL 15 is a great powder for ES and very very accurate, and great speeds in 223 & 308 win
problems its quite dirty, I have seen carbon build up in friends rifle, and it is heat sensitve.
Manitou
 
I fired the first shots out of my 223. The rifle is built on a Barnard P action with a 29" Kreiger barrel, 1:7 twist, standard Palma contour. Conditions were sunny with some mirage and winds of 3-5 MPH from 11 to 2 o'clock. I tried the Berger 90 VLD's, CCI 450's, unfired Lapua cases. Bullets had an OAL of 2.635 and were jumping 5 thou. All shots were fired at a distance of 200 yds.

I started with 23.0 Gr of Varget and worked my way up from there. The groups seemed to settle down vertically around 24.0 Gr of varget with my best 5shot group at 24.2 gr. which was 3/4". This is the highest load that I fired. No signs of pressure yet but I have a feeling I am close to the limit. I have no idea on velocity as I did not bring my chrony. I probably won't try much heigher in load as I don't want to have to replace my brass every 3-4 firings.

I am pleased thus far, I am hoping to try this load at 600m this week and possiby tweak it a bit more. I usually do not spend a lot of time tuning my fireforming load. I am usually content if I can find a fireforming load that will shoot around 1/2 MOA elevation up to 600m.


Note: these loads are for my rifle only, always start low and work up the loads for your rifle.
 
Diver, great start with a fireforming load. Yes, you are definitely in the right ballpark. Depending on how much your cases stretched after firing, you may get another tenth or two but I would not push too much higher

Watch for the usual tuning signs and have at it.

Enjoy.

Jerry
 
Diver said:
I fired the first shots out of my 223. The rifle is built on a Barnard P action with a 29" Kreiger barrel, 1:7 twist, standard Palma contour. Conditions were sunny with some mirage and winds of 3-5 MPH from 11 to 2 o'clock. I tried the Berger 90 VLD's, CCI 450's, unfired Lapua cases. Bullets had an OAL of 2.635 and were jumping 5 thou. All shots were fired at a distance of 200 yds.

I started with 23.0 Gr of Varget and worked my way up from there. The groups seemed to settle down vertically around 24.0 Gr of varget with my best 5shot group at 24.2 gr. which was 3/4". This is the highest load that I fired. No signs of pressure yet but I have a feeling I am close to the limit. I have no idea on velocity as I did not bring my chrony. I probably won't try much heigher in load as I don't want to have to replace my brass every 3-4 firings.

I am pleased thus far, I am hoping to try this load at 600m this week and possiby tweak it a bit more. I usually do not spend a lot of time tuning my fireforming load. I am usually content if I can find a fireforming load that will shoot around 1/2 MOA elevation up to 600m.


Note: these loads are for my rifle only, always start low and work up the loads for your rifle.
Click to expand...

Diver
Your speed should be very close to 2775 fps, I gain about 10ft using Fed Gold match over the 450 primers, Varget is good powder and its not heat sensitive like many others are, I have found in my gun Barnard 30 " 1/7 barrel
TF that in .800 to 10 works better than a jump, friend was getting good results jumping 60000 but I don,t like compressing powder, keep trying you will out shoot the .308
manitou
 
manitou

you better be carefull what you say about them 308s some of those guys who own them are going to open up a can of wope ass and beat on your little 223 lol...
 
Pigeon Hill V man

Hey Bulldog can you not get your new 223 to outshoot your 308 I will have to give you some hints on how to load. LOL

Here some loads starting to show promise with a non heat sensitive powders
Shot on Wed this week good conditions as it got later winds died groups a little smaller
Quite a few fellows had problems with there loads at the Eastern F class Championship when heat was in the 30c+ .308 included

Ran some loads to 2940 fps accuracy not there 2750 to 2850 seems to work best
Groups where at 300 Y off bench all 5 shots one group looks like 4 but there was 5 not quite a 1/4moa gun be getting there, Liberty shot a 5 shot .520" group and thats a sub 1/4 moa at 300
Lapua brass NT
Fed Gold Match as I mentioned FGM give more speed than 450 Magnum CCI
90gr VLD Bergers HP

To many powders to list, Anything faster than H 4895 did not work with the 90gr bullets, Buldog lets us know on the Alliant AR Comp 15,
002-1.jpg




007.jpg



004-1.jpg

003-1.jpg
 
bulldog284 said:
just started doing pressure testing with the ar comp to find the max i can go but will be putting something together soon
Click to expand...

Bulldog I think if its not heat sensitve it will be the powder of choice for the 223 & 90gr, if it gives tyhe speed of RL 15, Its is a great powder,lots of speed, very low ES is obtained,but you have to watch it on hot days
and its dirty lots of carbon.
 
the question is will it give as much speed as 15?

Apparently its a little faster burning than 15, closer to varget rate. If this is the case is it just a varget copy? may as well just keep using good old varget if it won't give more speed.

Anybody selling this in Canada yet? Keep us posted on the results bulldog.
 
223target1001.jpg
223target001.jpg


picked up some ar comp to give it a try with the 90s.seems how i had no ideal were to start with this powder i started low and worked up slowly to see were i would start to get some pressure.stopped at 23.2 and had non,will gradually go up some more in .02 grain increments.

so far i have nothing out of the ordinary,my goal is to get up to 2850 plus fps with a minimun of a half moa or better for f class.

my rifle is a pierce single shot action 30 inch krieger with a 1 in 7 twist 4 groove.i will post more results as my testing goes.so far with the little bit of testing that i have done this powder does not seems to be dirty.
 
There almost always seems to be one flyer out of the group, maybe due to inconsistent seating depth? You say they were all touching the lands, but the difference of being jumped-touching-jammed is obviously quite small. Just my way of doing things, but I never get closer than .005". Either a minimum .005" jump or .005" jam, never less just to take out one more variable, especially with a relatively new combo. Going up in .02gn increments is a waste of powder IMO, these are load sensitive, but, no sense doing less than .1gn for pressure testing. Once you are in the right node then you can try and take it further. This is all just my opinion, of course. YMMV

By the looks of it, you shouldn't have any problem getting up to 2820-2850 with it. What is your OAL for these loads?
 
Have started testing Berger 90gr BT's and have been very impressed. Definitely another option if a barrel is fussy on the VLD's. These bullets seem to be a thicker construction. Very similar for powder load and seating depths - using the same die setting as the VLD.

Due to bullet profile, the nose is now jammed into the lands. May seat off and see what happens. Right now, they are shooting great.

For S&G's, I decided to see what these 90's would do on a water filled milk jug. 1 hit was the 90gr BT - left and high of center. 2nd hit was the VLD low but centered.

I am very surprised and impressed. Didn't think it would do that much destruction at 500m

[youtube]kbZnB-GLU9E[/youtube]

Enjoy...

Jerry
 
The Canadian Nationals F/TR Grand agg was won today by Ales Koutchin shooting a
223 90gr Bergers and Rl15 he just edged out Kenny Proulx by 1 point.after a week of shooting
The Govener Generals shoot Sat afternoon should be interesting 223 vs .308
Both are
2 new shooters this year great for the sport of F class shooting
manitou
 
Paul, is that Alex that shoots at Stittesville? I think he was using a long truflight barrel and loading with a stout charge of varget earlier in the year.

Regardless, congratulations Alex!
 
Congrats to Ales and Kevin and a tight match.

Great to see that the 22cal 90's can and will hold their own in competition.

Out west, there seems to be a growing percentage of shooters in F TR vs F Open and several are using the 223.

the receipe seems to be solidifying and with more positive results, this combo can only increase.

I am happy to say that my first batch of JLK 90's is in the works and I hope to see them in Sept.

Another excellent option to add to the mix.

Jerry
 
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