90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

manitou210 said:
If you have any second thoughts of Tru-Flite Barrels that Robertsons like using on there builds Alexs groups should clear up any thoughts and there called SG- slanted groves Ulta Match Grade like R5 others are now starting to use
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I've been considering Tru-Flite, and Alex's group is really impressive. Manitou, you've got a switch barrel rifle, correct? Using Tru-Flite .223 and .308 barrels?

-- L
 
rnbra-shooter said:
Alex (or do you go by Oleg?), what do the numbers written by each group mean (e.g. 2.0935)?

That rifle sure is shooting well. It really is great to shoot TR with a rifle you *know* is accurate enough to win an F-Class match. Really does wonders for one's TR shooting.

Those are some of the best 100-yard .308 groups I have ever seen.

What chamber is in the rifle, and (roughly) what C.O.A.L. do you have the Lapua-155s loaded to?

I suppose this is a bit of a thread hijack so let me get things back on track by asking about the .223/90 you used to win the Canadian Grand Aggregate this year. Did you shoot the Berger-90-VLDs or the -BTs? What sort of muzzle velocity and ES or SD did your load have? What barrel twist, and what chamber?

Cheers and all the best,
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My russian name is Oleg but many people call me Alex, it really doesn't matter.

For the last competition I was using Tikka 595 in 223 1 in 7 twist Tru-Flite Barrel with longer throat (for 90 vld), Barnard trigger.

Case: Lapua, neck turned to 0.0125, body fully resized after each firing and neck sized with bushing .248

Bullet: Berger 90 vld

Sitting depth: 0.020 jammed ( into the lands)

Powder: reloader 15 24.0 gr

Speed : around 2750

Groups at 300m about 0.5 inch


For the 308 - I didn't do much: just new Lapua case and I started with sitting depth - jumped - 0.020; powder varget.

Fired case measured 0.340 at the neck.

Those numbers are sitting depth for my comparator.

I hope it is going to help


Regards,


Oleg
 
manitou210 said:
HiFly very good info you posted on the 90gr Bergers, I sure had fun last year shooting the 223 in F/Tr class, got some funny looks on fellows faces shooting the .308 mostly 155gr when they would ask me how much wind did I have on, and I would have 1moa+ less than the .308 They just couldn't beleive how a 223 had less wind drift. Got some luck and won the longrange chalange at Connaught last summer 7,8, & 900m
Twist 1/7 30 Tru-Flite 2820fps seem to be most accurate for my gun .2s at 100.
there are quite a few fellows in Ottawa shooting the 223.
I watch two fellows shoot 5 shot groups at 300y One a 28" Hart 1/7,one a kreiger 28" 1/7.8 twist out of 6 groups they fired all where under 1" and 3 under .620 smallest .520"
one fellow had his first 4 shots at .340" all using 12 by 42 NF scopes both shooting off sinclair Bi-pods. I am pretty sure the 223 rem with the 80 & 90 gr bullets in a benchrest shoot at 100,200 & 300y they will outrun the 6br and 6ppc shooting 68gr to 90 bullets. probably wont beat them at 100 but 200 and for sure 300 they will outscore them if there is any conditions. Some benchrest guys think I nuts but remember the 222 still holds record at 100y
My new build for benchrest & short F class will be underway soon 224 cal with a new case, friend in USA told me this will run with the 6ppc & 6br
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You are nuts! No just kidding. It sure would be a fun going against a 223 with my PPC. Might upset a lot of people if the 223 ousted the PPC one day. I honestly can't see it happening though. In the end it would come down to the better shooter perhaps?? I have a tough time holding off properly without a sighter for confirmation of the condition change when I'm trying to run and not pick....I've considered building a proper BR rig chambered in 222 just for the hell of it though. Lovely little cartridge and perhaps my favorite. If you're ever in the Calgary area send me a PM and we'll go head to head at the Rosebud Range.

Ok I'm on page 28 of 41. Must...keep...reading. This is interesting stuff!
 
rpollock said:
I see this reference a lot, so I'll let the cat out of the bag for those that don't know the whole story. For clarity, this record is still hotly contested due to a lot of people thinking it is merely a single shot.

It was range measured less than .224", ie typical for a single bullet passing through target paper. You should also know the moving backer system was reconfigured after this record was shot. Lastly you should know that the owner of this rifle didn't even win the agg he was in, the rest of the groups he shot were in the .500" range.

In spite of the official record, the 222 is not competitive at 100 and 200 yard BR. If you want to run a 22 in 100 and 200 yard BR there are several variants of the short 22PPC that can run with the 6PPC, but are very finicky to make work, and the lack of good quality 22 cal bullets is the real problem here.
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:agree:
 
Well done Alex on some fine shooting. That is another top showing for the 223/90. Momentum is certainly growing for this set up in F TR and it is maturing to becoming a equal contender to the 308.

Testing update:

90gr BT is working very well and for those that find the VLD fussy, this is an easy bullet to set up. BC is actually really close to the VLD. I have them just on the lands at 2.55". The throat is the same as the VLD set up but the more forward ogive requires the bullet to be seated deeper. Still no problem with compressed loads but you are definitely INTO the powder column.

May consider pushing the throat out further in time but it is working great now so will leave more fussing till later. This OAL will also just fit in the HS 223 mags. Yes, another project will be in the works shortly to exploit this.

A powder worth testing is IMR4007SSC. Seems to act alot like Varget but slower. Pressures are toasty for sure but speeds are almost 100fps faster then my Varget loads. Vertical is excellent as is accuracy at 500m.

So powder options have expanded to include Varget, Re15, 4007, and a few Viht NX50 options. H4350 can work in some rifles and depending on the lot so if you are seeing lots of pressure signs, this slow powder may be the one for that barrel.

Barrel lengths seem to be 28" to 31" with all reporting similar velocities. I lean towards the shorter barrel for ease of packaging and balance.

7 twist works, definitely don't need to go faster, but slower twists are also reporting very positive results. I hope to test an 8 twist in the fall to see if slowing the spin rate can increase LR accuracy and affects of bumpy air.

Look forward to more reports and seeing more 223 rifles on the line.

Enjoy...

Jerry

PS. hope to see my first batch of JLK bullet which will have some 22cal 90's and 7mm 180's. These will be fun to test.
 
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Phew!! Just finished all 41 pages. What a read! Pretty amazing stuff guys.

While I'm not planning to build a 223/90 rifle I have been considering the 90g bullets for another build and was curious as to the outcome. Long ago I had planned to build a 22BR with fast twist barrel for a varmint gun and just haven't got around to it yet. I have a nice old single shot 40X currently barreled in 22-250AI that I figured I'd screw on a 1x7 twist barrel until I could justify another action.

Jerry do you have a 22 BR reamer and a throating reamer that would be suitable to chamber a barrel to shoot 90's, 80's and 75's? VLD's or otherwise. I've never been down this path before so I'm a little of out my league. You can PM me so I don't hijack this thread any further.

One more question. What is the best program to calculate chamber pressure. I'm pushing the ragged edge on a few of my varmint/competition rifles and I'd be curious as to what the pressure are.

Thanks guys and keep up the good work.
 
hend238 said:
What is the best program to calculate chamber pressure. I'm pushing the ragged edge on a few of my varmint/competition rifles and I'd be curious as to what the pressure are.
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The best program is Quickload - given accurate measure paramenters (e.g., the actual vs. assumed case volume) it is surprisingly close to real-life. But, if you want to be sure about pressure, you need PressureTrace.
 
hend238 said:
Phew!! Just finished all 41 pages. What a read! Pretty amazing stuff guys.

While I'm not planning to build a 223/90 rifle I have been considering the 90g bullets for another build and was curious as to the outcome. Long ago I had planned to build a 22BR with fast twist barrel for a varmint gun and just haven't got around to it yet. I have a nice old single shot 40X currently barreled in 22-250AI that I figured I'd screw on a 1x7 twist barrel until I could justify another action.

Jerry do you have a 22 BR reamer and a throating reamer that would be suitable to chamber a barrel to shoot 90's, 80's and 75's? VLD's or otherwise. I've never been down this path before so I'm a little of out my league. You can PM me so I don't hijack this thread any further.

One more question. What is the best program to calculate chamber pressure. I'm pushing the ragged edge on a few of my varmint/competition rifles and I'd be curious as to what the pressure are.

Thanks guys and keep up the good work.
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Quickload is your friend as well as the basic observations of pressure on case and primer.

I built a 22.250 to try and break these bullets. 7 twist, over 3100fps, 1/3 min at 200yds and never lost a bullet. McGowen prefit in a Savage. Gave up after 100rds :bangHead:.

For info on the 22BR, contact SteveB on this board. He has been shooting this combo for a few years in F O and knows more about it then I do. I am pretty sure his set up would handle all the bullets you want. he wasn't going that much faster then the 223's now.

With the performance I am getting from my 223 and the greatly reduced cost of set up and shooting, you may want to keep the 223 in mind.

My 22-250 used up 40gr of powder which is almost double what I shoot in my 223 for 300fps and 1/3 the barrel life.

1000yds performance is excellent too. I am really liking this combo

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Quickload is your friend as well as the basic observations of pressure on case and primer.

I built a 22.250 to try and break these bullets. 7 twist, over 3100fps, 1/3 min at 200yds and never lost a bullet. McGowen prefit in a Savage. Gave up after 100rds :bangHead:.

For info on the 22BR, contact SteveB on this board. He has been shooting this combo for a few years in F O and knows more about it then I do. I am pretty sure his set up would handle all the bullets you want. he wasn't going that much faster then the 223's now.

With the performance I am getting from my 223 and the greatly reduced cost of set up and shooting, you may want to keep the 223 in mind.

My 22-250 used up 40gr of powder which is almost double what I shoot in my 223 for 300fps and 1/3 the barrel life.

1000yds performance is excellent too. I am really liking this combo

Jerry
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Hey Jerry,

Thanks I'll give SteveB a shout and pick his brain.

I contacted you first as I thought I'd purchase my barrel and bullets from you. I figured if you had a reamer I'd be set. That's if you were willing to take on the project. I want to talk to you about a few others items but another time.

I'm not discounting the 223's abilities it's just that I've always wanted a 22BR. Once upon a time I was nearly there with a build, had a barrel chambered even, but ended up selling the whole rifle as it wasn't really what I wanted in the end. :( I still have all the components so all I need is a barrel and a purchased/borrowed reamer and I'm off.

I satisfy my 223 urges with AR type rifles in Service Rifle matches.

Dan H
 
Will do Jerry. I'm in Peru currently but will look you up when I get back later this month or into October. That way I can better wrap my head around my needs without being distracted here at work.
 
Be safe and we can chat when you get back

Here is the test group from #1 that I was talking about. OTO is approx 0.332"

IMG_4720.jpg


Look forward to testing the barrel at 300m and 500m.

Jerry
 
Final testing of #2 at 300m for the Farky this weekend. Was a gusty windy day needing 1 to 1.5 mins, with gusts almost 2.5mins.

Cleaned the barrel and had the usual fouling shots, got close then waited for the winds to steady. The winds did (kind of, you can hear the gusts in the video) and I shot this group with 90gr Berger BT's. I think my load tuning is done.

Including the 5th shot, the C2C distance is 5/8". With the first 4, C2C is 9/16".

Hoping for steady air this weekend.

Jerry

[youtube]zIz50hQPyOY[/youtube]
 
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Mystic Precision said:
Final testing of #2 at 300m for the Farky this weekend. Was a gusty windy day needing 1 to 1.5 mins, with gusts almost 2.5mins.

Cleaned the barrel and had the usual fouling shots, got close then waited for the winds to steady. The winds did (kind of, you can hear the gusts in the video) and I shot this group with 90gr Berger BT's. I think my load tuning is done.

Including the 5th shot, the C2C distance is 5/8". With the first 4, C2C is 9/16".

Hoping for steady air this weekend.

Jerry

[youtube]zIz50hQPyOY[/youtube]
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We finally charged the batteries on the fans so don't count on it. :D
 
As long as I am not on the end, I will just aim at the target next to me and let drift figure out where my bullet should go :)

Hey, if the target backing rips off but we still hit it when it is moving, does that automatically count as a V ?

Looking forward to more good times....

Jerry
 
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