How can you expect not to have any lemons? Anything ever made has lemons but instead of going to a public forum with your problems why not call the company that made the product. I haven't heard any stories of someone saying they had problems with there atrs products and was given poor service. Even if they did more testing there would still be lemons. Everyone wants their rifle as quickly as possible for as cheap as possible. If they did more tests on each rifle it would cost more and take longer to deliver the rifles. They still don't have any instock so obviously they are still selling as quickly as they can make them.
ATRS modern hunter?
- Thread starter chunkydrunky
- Start date
How can you expect not to have any lemons? Anything ever made has lemons but instead of going to a public forum with your problems why not call the company that made the product. I haven't heard any stories of someone saying they had problems with there atrs products and was given poor service. Even if they did more testing there would still be lemons. Everyone wants their rifle as quickly as possible for as cheap as possible. If they did more tests on each rifle it would cost more and take longer to deliver the rifles. They still don't have any instock so obviously they are still selling as quickly as they can make them.
Lol, do you have any idea how much time that would take? If you expected them to accuracy test every rifle there would probably only be 50 of them in the hands of customers. If you expect them to have a property with a 100+ yard range and have the shop on that property so the kind of testing you expect can be done these rifles would be $5000 each since that would increase overhead exponentially. I want some of whatever it is you're smoking.
Every manufacturer has a lemon get out the door once in a while, just ask Mike about his Christianson Arms AR-15. The important thing is how they handle the lemon. This is why many people won't buy a new car the first year when a model is redesigned. You can never get all the bugs out when your customers are screaming that they want it now.
You say "for the price", have you actually looked around to see what you get for $3500 these days? Not too much, Swiss Arms, B&T (once they make it here), and a couple others. I've owned a SA and I know first hand the MH will shoot better than they do. Just like every rifle out there they all shoot different ammo differently and it's the owners job to figure out what ammo that is. If after trying multiple different types of ammo using quality optics if accuracy can't be found then a call to the manufacturer is the next step.
There is a MV thread where the owner couldn't get the rifle to shoot no matter what he tried, he traded out the Nightforce that was on it for a Sightron and the groups shrank and now he sounds pretty happy with his purchase. He actually offered to sell it to me and it looks like I should have jumped on it when I had the chance.
If I remember correctly each rifle is function tested with around 20 rounds into a bullet trap in the shop.
The first few rifles were built for Rick and a couple of the guys in the shop to do testing with and once the bugs were worked out (apparently not all the bugs) the rifle was duplicated for retail sales. There is no reason that every rifle would need to be accuracy tested if they are built the same using quality barrels and the same parts.
I'm still going to stand behind saying at least 90% of the problems and accuracy issues are user errors not a fault of the rifle. Just because you buy a capable rifle doesn't mean the average gun nut can utilize that potential. You would understand this better if you had been communicating with Rick and heard some of the stories he has told me about customers telling him what they were doing and that they can't figure out why it doesn't function correctly.
Yes there have been some legitimate issues experienced by customers but if those customers called Rick and explained what was happening he has been very helpful correcting those issues.
Think of it like this. People spend $60000+ on a stupid pick-up truck, do they freak out and slag the hell out of it and sell it off if it's running rough a week later or do they take it back for warranty and let the dealership fix it? That's right, they let the experts fix it and then enjoy their new truck from that point forward.
If you buy a Ferrari do you think that just because a professional driver can turn some insanely low lap times on a track with the same model is it you or the car that's at fault if you can't turn the same lap times?
What's the point of buying a custom? To have a Canadian made custom rifle without having to deal with US customs when it needs service. Don't like having to ship it back to Calgary if there is a problem? Well it's a risk you take and a risk you chose to take. If you want to lower the risk of problems wait till the rifle is in the third generation before putting your money down.
Citizen Arms builds custom ARs in a variety of calibres. Each rifles comes with an accuracy guarantee. I've ordered two 7.62 uppers through them and both came with targets showing 5 round, sub-MOA groups with two different brands of factory ammo.
Overseas I and many others bought recce uppers from MSTN and similar builders. They all came with test targets proving their accuracy with mk262 or whatever ammo you specified you'd be running. They would also come zero'd with irons or the optic you purchased.
I'm not going to quote the big long post, but there are many small/medium/large manufacturers that provide accuracy test targets with their rifles.....rifles that cost 1/4 of the MH/MV ($1000 rifles like RC Vanguards ffs, $1700 rifles like Verney) for example.
But yes I believe Rick would have no problem charging $1000 extra for this testing lol. If he doesn't have a range to test accuracy how can he build accurate rifles?
It was just a suggestion.
But yes I believe Rick would have no problem charging $1000 extra for this testing lol. If he doesn't have a range to test accuracy how can he build accurate rifles?
It was just a suggestion.
I keep seeing the same poster refer to the MH as nothing more than a DPMS gun. If ATRS chose to use a DPMS BCG, how does that negate the fact that they're an in-house upper/lower, match barrel, match trigger and in-house barrel extension? Ignoring all these and continuing to portray it as simply a DPMS AR10 is extremely dishonest.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
It has to do with AR10 rifles not really being standardized like AR15 rifles are, there are some differences between manufacturers.
DPMS is one of the more popular "designs" of AR10, so the ATRS was built to work with their BCG/Bolt and probably lpk, buffer tube and barrel extension. So yes, the design they used seems to be based on the dpms design platform for the most part.
A matched custom mated AR10 upper/lower from Rainier Arms for example is about $500US just for comparison so don't put a lot value into that.
seems to go both ways though:
one guy saying they can be a sub moa rifle consistently and reliably
one guy saying they are utter crap
i guess the truth is somewhere in the middle
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
But you notice those who are the loudest with a negative slant have never had anything to do with one of these rifles? I am working on getting both my MH and possibly my MV in the hands of a highly regarded F-class shooter on this forum for some non-biased testing, and taking shooter error out of the question.
I want it to be black and white, either my rifles can shoot, or they dont live up to expectations.
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There have been others as well. But these are a quick 2 examples in this thread alone within the last 5 pages or so.
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I would be very interested in seeing the results from this.
Just for everyone's enjoyment here is another thread that hitzy ruined with his hatred for atrs and it wasn't even about there modern hunter it was about their press.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1518285-ATRS-ACCU-MAXX™-Reloading-Press
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
It does if he sold it for a reason not related to its performance. Let me ask you this, why would he continue to say good things about that ridle and ATRS if his experience was lack luster, and and the service terrible. He sold his rifle, he didn't have anything more to loose over it did he? And then why would he have continued to go ahead and buy another rifle from ATRS, design based on the previous rifle he owned and sold no less!
The man is either happy with ATRS' product and service, or he is paid to be, or he is insane to keep buying and saying good things about ATRS' product.
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Well he did sell it to a member here....maybe that's why the continued praise?
Again, at what price point would he have kept it? Maybe $4500-$5000 was too much tied up in it for what it is... Most people keep things they like, so I find it odd he didn't keep it if it was the real cats ass.
Maybe all 3? Lol
Anyway, no more from me. I think it was a great idea to push for a NR AR15/10 type rifle and I'll give them props for that. If there was a little more of a guarantee in the accuracy and reliability department I think myself and others would be much more willing to buy one. For $4000 I don't want a guinea pig rifle, $4000 should not be a crapshoot. Even Rick in this thread claimed 25% had issues (10% light strikes, 15% FTF/FTE)...1 in 4 have light strikes or FTF/FTE issues, that's a high rate for issues.
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I have sold lots of things I thought were the cats ass, many of them I have went back later and replaced. Essentially that is what 6MT did, just with a change in caliber.
Not all of us are hoarders, some of us like to play the scene to test everything, then we come back to what makes us happy. The only things I dont ever consider selling are those that I cant or will have trouble getting again later.
Well I am just a carpenter. Lol you can't expect me to understand the complex things said in that thread. lol
