ATRS modern hunter?

Lots of bashing going on here. Much like what happened to Robinson with the XCR debacle now seem to be fixed. I am not defending anyone here but would like to state a few things about starting a business (as I am doing - not firearms though);
1. I would imagine there has been a pile of investment put into ATRS in the form of R&D, startup costs, building rental, wages, FRT dealings etc. they have to recoup this money - I know I would want to. To do this he must sell his products for a certain amount unless every want to be owner in Canada buys his product which would lower the price.
2. They have told me explicitly, prior to when I ordered, that certain ammo won't work too good. Understood.
3. New products will always have issues. I know no one wants to hear that but the FTE issue was experienced by how many people?
4. On the order form it clearly states all shipping is on the buyers account. I realize when one drops $5k or more on a gun that the first trip back might be covered or at least the return shipping. I have had the latter from most of my past dealings buying other expensive products and needing warranty.
5. This company has gone overboard to get a NR semi-auto rifle to the Canadian market.
6. Using generic parts (that have worked elsewhere) is a good business move and good for the consumer.
7. There is a defined warranty period. One should use the gun as much as they can in the period to ensure there are no major issues.
8. I believe ATRS, when sales can justify, should have a dealer and warranty network based in the east (major city) to service customers from that side.
These are just my thoughts based on a business scenario and yes some may have not gotten the best deal but we don't know what went down in claimants discussions or scenarios. All I know is that Robinson guy treated people different now it all seems to be worked out and they have a dealer network now. All of the comments on the other forum have not deterred me from buying.

Regards to all
 
chunkydrunky said:
I found this thread on the MH, not too encouraging. I own a NEA AR15 and had problems with it. NEA was outstanding with fixing things.
http://www.canadianfirearmcentral. ca/showthread.php?269-Modern-Hunters/page16
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I wonder if the NEA 25 will get non restricted status. Also hopefully it will be done right. Some of the new NEA stuff I've seen looked decent. I would use their stripped suppers/lowers for a build along with a few other parts. Especially the new forged ones if the price was right.
 
Kiwiman1 said:
Lots of bashing going on here. Much like what happened to Robinson with the XCR debacle now seem to be fixed. I am not defending anyone here but would like to state a few things about starting a business (as I am doing - not firearms though);
1. I would imagine there has been a pile of investment put into ATRS in the form of R&D, startup costs, building rental, wages, FRT dealings etc. they have to recoup this money - I know I would want to. To do this he must sell his products for a certain amount unless every want to be owner in Canada buys his product which would lower the price.
2. They have told me explicitly, prior to when I ordered, that certain ammo won't work too good. Understood.
3. New products will always have issues. I know no one wants to hear that but the FTE issue was experienced by how many people?
4. On the order form it clearly states all shipping is on the buyers account. I realize when one drops $5k or more on a gun that the first trip back might be covered or at least the return shipping. I have had the latter from most of my past dealings buying other expensive products and needing warranty.
5. This company has gone overboard to get a NR semi-auto rifle to the Canadian market.
6. Using generic parts (that have worked elsewhere) is a good business move and good for the consumer.
7. There is a defined warranty period. One should use the gun as much as they can in the period to ensure there are no major issues.
8. I believe ATRS, when sales can justify, should have a dealer and warranty network based in the east (major city) to service customers from that side.
These are just my thoughts based on a business scenario and yes some may have not gotten the best deal but we don't know what went down in claimants discussions or scenarios. All I know is that Robinson guy treated people different now it all seems to be worked out and they have a dealer network now. All of the comments on the other forum have not deterred me from buying.

Regards to all
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You must have read a different thread. I'm not seeing bashing. I'm seeing some interesting points being brought up that some will want to consider before putting down some fairly serious coin. If someone would rather just spend their money then there is always the option of being selectively ignorant and ignoring anything that doesn't fit with the buyers preconceptions. Lots of people are like that, which is fine as it's their money. Personally I like forums because I want to know before I put money down on something, not finding out the hard way after.

1) No doubt. The redesign of the lower/upper connection system with that one back piece as well as using similar contours to the ACR to avoid compatibility with an AR would have taken some R&D. The notch in the DPMS bolt carrier group is simply a copy of the American Spirit Arms design which they used to sell. The charging handle is a bit different. So yup a few parts and some interesting creative writing along with testing and submitting for FRT. Definitely some investment there.
2) Why won't it work? Is the AR15 timmey trigger being used instead of the AR10 ie a smaller hammer and $30 US cheaper than the AR10 version? Are the springs not good enough? 4.5 pounds isn't super light, it should work with all ammo. That being said, for whatever reason it won't and yes they do tell you beforehand. At least you know before going into it. So fair enough as it's not hidden.
3) The fail to eject issue is likely a consequence of using the DPMS G1 BCG. It's a known weakness with DPMS. Other bolts are made that are DPMS compatible and don't have this issue. But they aren't as cheap. This will happen eventually to all of these rifles because of this. DPMS owners keep extra parts for this very reason. Again a known weakness. The other possibility is a gas issue.
4) Another reason why the "warranty" is never a selling feature for me. Anytime you have to use a warranty it's a pain in the @ss. If you get a 5K gun and it doesn't work out of the box you're likely going to be a bit choked at having to pay more money to send it back. But like you stated it is there in the print. So Caveat Emptor and know this going into it. It's not hidden so fair enough.
5) That's usually what a business does to gain a market share that hasn't been exploited. It's called Capitalism. This wasn't some altruistic project of theirs. Also if you were aware of the timing and politics at the time, you might be a little less impressed.
6) Sure. But why the huge upcharge on off the shelf parts? Also why the DPMS BCG on a pretty expensive gun? A DPMS AR308 runs you around $1500. In fact most these days simply buy the G2 which is a much better design and is in the 1.5-2K range. But there aren't as many off the shelf parts available. If they had gone G2, you guys would be hitting 8 pounds without going to thin barrels or expensive carbon fiber.
7) Sure. Some people do the same with their cars. Still annoying when something breaks just after the warranty expires. But again why I hold absolutely no value with a "warranty". But if that's important to you then sure.
8) That sounds like a good business move. The info on that other forum if you're referring to the newest one is pretty solid. It's a not for profit forum, the dealers don't pay a dime and can't insist on negative yet shown issues to disappear. If you still decide to buy one then good for you! I hope it works well for you. That being said Caveat Emptor. You knew what you were getting into. Hopefully it turns into a good experience for you and anyone else that does decide to make the purchase.

I really have no dog in this fight. I have't bought one of these rifles so I don't have an investment in it. I'm a huge fan of AR308 rifles and similiar designs. So of course I have an interest in the MH. If the gun was high quality and shoots as expected, I would likely already own one. I make no qualms about that. Things may be different in the future. Everyone has to make their own decisions. It's just nice when you have the info to actually make an informed decision before putting down the money.
 
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I will add a little here... I had a modern hunter, just sold it actually. Waited 9 months or so for it, it had jamming issues out of the box. I had to pay to send it back. They did a good job fixing it. Ran flawlessly after I got it back. Mags are a big issue. Ammo is another. I lost money on both mags and ammo that were not compatible.
Fit an finish are really really good though. As is the trigger.
My biggest problem was the charging handle. I really hated it. And hated it more each time I used it. For an expensive gun it seems cheap and poorly thought out.
It was always in my way, handle opening even with the magnet fix... and seemed to always be back or flopping around on me. It was the only thing on the gun I couldn't live with.
 
polskiogorki said:
I will add a little here... I had a modern hunter, just sold it actually. Waited 9 months or so for it, it had jamming issues out of the box. I had to pay to send it back. They did a good job fixing it. Ran flawlessly after I got it back. Mags are a big issue. Ammo is another. I lost money on both mags and ammo that were not compatible.
Fit an finish are really really good though. As is the trigger.
My biggest problem was the charging handle. I really hated it. And hated it more each time I used it. For an expensive gun it seems cheap and poorly thought out.
It was always in my way, handle opening even with the magnet fix... and seemed to always be back or flopping around on me. It was the only thing on the gun I couldn't live with.
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Atrs used to carry asa stuff, asa had a really nice side charger design
Atrs doesnt carry asa stuff anymore but they came out with there own side charger.

The asa one is awesome
 
Tenguns said:
Look at the FNAR. NR .308 semi at 1/3 the cost.
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^x2... The FNAR is a very accurate (Sub-MOA should be possible with match/handloads) NR .308 semi.-auto. pistol grip styled rifle that weighs approx. 8.5Lbs. with standard (light) barrel and about a 1Lb. heavier with the heavy barrel. Best as a bench rest shooter, but could work well as a hunting rifle if you don't mind the weight.
(the only caveat is the more difficult dis-assemble/re-assemble as compared to say an AR-10, but it should prove very reliable none the less)...

Brianma65 said:
Are they putting the same trigger in the MV?
I guess I can live with a 4 1/2 lb pull :)
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I remember reading that the MV would arrive with a 3Lb. trigger.

TysonA said:
having read everything I could find on the modern hunter over the pat 6 months while I have been waiting for mine to be built I have come across a lot of information. However very little in way of actually reviews with accuracy and function of the rifle.

I am far from able to do a full review on mine as I just received it last week and have only fire 60 rounds so far. My rifle is a 6.5 creedmoor with 22" barrel, prs stock and ATRS muzzle break. The ammunition I shot has been one box of American eagle 140gr hpbt match. To sight in the scope I shot 2 sitters at 50yrd then a group of 5 which I never measured but to guess I would say .8". Then I shot two more groups at 100yrd which measure 1.04 and .96Moa

The last 2 boxes were hornady 140gr ELDX match which I shot 2 group at 100yrds measuring .384moa a personal best for me beating out my bolt rifles as well, and the second measured .791 Moa.

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Then out to 200 meters. First group was .635moa follows by .969 Moa then 1.14, and 1.18moa. The last group was a rapid fire 5 rounds under 8 seconds with a group 1.4moa.



At 60 rounds this rifle is far from even broken in with a lot of room to improve. Overall my MH has exceeded my expectations and I feel with hand loads I can improve the consistency and realistically achieve half Moa. Now since it can't all be perfect the American eagle ammo I fired through 2 full 10 round mags each mag experienced one FTF which jammed the bullet into the feed ramps and pushed the bullet into the case. The hornady ammo was also shot though the same fully loaded 10 xcr pistol mag and the 40 rounds all cycled without any problem. So while report say soft points don't feed well it would seem hollow point don't aswell but I will need to test further as I hope to reload 140gr bergers.
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Great write up Tyson and some real good shooting accomplished too. We need more MV owners to step like yourself and share what they've accomplished with such detail, it really does help in making an informed decision.


I'm sure there's a few MH owners that did not post up their accuracy results because they are simple not great shooters and when MOA or better was not achieved they did not post. Also IIRC there was a little bit of trash talking going on about some accuracy results that were posted (caused a few to remove their posts) and all that would have made posting up even harder for some.

For me personally the thought of a Canadian Co. manufacturing what is basically a NR AR-10 from scratch what exciting. It showed promise for our Canadian firearms market at a time of low morale and aimed directly at the government bureaucracy BS that is our Firearms Rules & Regulations....

I had a good appreciation for not only the hassles of procedural paperwork that it must have taken to make this a reality, but also the skill required to bring forth a brand new AR10 rifle that we could carry as NR.

Saying that there have been a few controversies over items such as magazines and possible FTF/FTE issues (many due to mag.'s and/or ammo. though), not all the fault of ATRS and finally accuracy potential and value.

With a properly zeroed-in rifle running the correct premium ammo. (as it was designed for) a MH should show no signs of poor accuracy or issues with reliability. These rifles are capable of sub-MOA accuracy with a capable shooter (one MH was shown to have shot very well against high end competition bolt guns beating out almost all in a major competition), yet it must be used as they were designed to be (much like the analogy of the high performance car needing high octane fuel to run correctly).

As for things like the charging handle and to some some extent the cost/value, well that is for each to decide for themselves. For me those items are why I've not pursued the purchase of one of these finely crafted rifles.

For the rest of the story here, well it sucks not to have access to these threads discussing exactly whats being said; however it's really not my business nor is it affecting me personally so not my place to judge.

Cheers D
 
^^^ some of this is not true. Some people's jamming issues have been with the gun itself. Nothing to do with ammo or mags. Mine was one of them.
I have nothing to say about the accuracy, I never tried to shoot it accurately. Just playing with an eotech on top
 
polskiogorki said:
^^^ some of this is not true. Some people's jamming issues have been with the gun itself. Nothing to do with ammo or mags. Mine was one of them.
I have nothing to say about the accuracy, I never tried to shoot it accurately. Just playing with an eotech on top
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Were you able to correct the issues of jamming?

Did you have ATRS attempt to correct the situation and they couldn't?

Cheers D
 
polskiogorki said:
^^^ some of this is not true. Some people's jamming issues have been with the gun itself. Nothing to do with ammo or mags. Mine was one of them.
I have nothing to say about the accuracy, I never tried to shoot it accurately. Just playing with an eotech on top
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Is that the reason you sold it?
 
Zeroed-In said:
Were you able to correct the issues of jamming?

Did you have ATRS attempt to correct the situation and they couldn't?

Cheers D
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Yes ... issues were corrected. .. sucks that it cost me a good chunk of change to send it in... but after I got it back it worked perfectly. Rick is actually really good to deal with.
And reason I sold it was because I wanted a non restricted ar10. .. this is not quite it.
I want something I can stick any mag in and any ammo and go...
So I bought an acr.
If irg gets their modified scar a non restricted frt I'm definitely buying one of those.
 
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I'm happy with my MH now with the thin barrel it feels much better in the hands
Haven't had a chance to try it out with the new barrel but I'm hopeful The 6.5CM will work wonderfully for hunting will find out soon
The new 338 federal upper is going up for sale as my MV shood be ready soon
I honestly thought I would've been back to work by now but still on EI so the upper has to go unfortunately
 
I can't speak for everyone but I've been very pleased with my MH. The only functional issues I have had were mag related(don't use dpms mags) but that was cleared up by switching to xcr-m mags. Accuracy has been all I can ask for, it obviously can't compare to something like my f-class rifle but it does very well with my handloads. Here is a group I shot last winter at 250yds. Yes it's supposed to be only 4 rounds. That's just what was left in the mag.

 
257hunter said:
I can't speak for everyone but I've been very pleased with my MH. The only functional issues I have had were mag related(don't use dpms mags) but that was cleared up by switching to xcr-m mags. Accuracy has been all I can ask for, it obviously can't compare to something like my f-class rifle but it does very well with my handloads. Here is a group I shot last winter at 250yds. Yes it's supposed to be only 4 rounds. That's just what was left in the mag.

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Care to share rifle specs and load data?
 
play.soccer said:
Care to share rifle specs and load data?
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Sure, I did a short write up in the atrs thread as well. Mine is in .243 though so my load data my be useless to most. Rifle is done with a 20" medium contour barrel with target crown (no brake). It's wearing a magpul prs stock with ergo sure grip and a jp handguard. I've had a couple different optics on it but that group was shot with a 3-15 Burris veracity.
I'm shooting 90gr lapua scenar bullets over H4831sc. I can't remember the charge weight or oal without consulting my books but if you really want them just let me know and I'll dig it up.

 
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