ATRS modern hunter?

[Brian46]

Good idea.
We can put up a sticky relating to the few upgrades we have found.

I wouldn't really call replacing parts that are not allowing the rifle to perform properly from day one an "upgrade"

SOME cam pins are slightly oversized, so we can do a modification to the upper giving more clearance. Looking inside the upper where the cam pit relief is cut is simple. If you see silver where the cam pin has contacted the upper, we need to get the upper back to correct this. So far about 10% of the uppers seem to be effected.

The charge handle is something we are still working on as some guys have complained that their handle does not stay locked in place. About 15% of the 308 guns seem to be effected so we are completely redesigning the charge handle. we hope to have these done by spring and they will be available for clients to change out.

this explains it better, you have recognized there are problems with some parts in some of the rifles and you are fixing them

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

I wouldn't really call replacing parts that are not allowing the rifle to perform properly from day one an "upgrade"

this explains it better, you have recognized there are problems with some parts in some of the rifles and you are fixing them

So would the word "improved" work for you or would you prefer another word to be used?

 

[Brian46]

use whatever you like

I look at it as a defect in the production that would be subject to warranty repair and that if a certain amount were found to contain said defects a TSB or recall notice should be posted somewhere your customers can easily find notice of it, like maybe on your website, facebook page, etc in the event you have nor records of their transactions so you can not contact them by other means.

But that is entirely up to you as to how you want to make sure everyone with these rifles are kept up to date on your findings.

 

[Epoxy7]

So would the word "improved" work for you or would you prefer another word to be used?

Well.. normally that implies that a good product is now even better. Which I guess is what you want to imply. The reality though is that you're asking customers to return the product to the manufacturer to take care of some minor issues which are hindering the expected performance of the product. So is it really "improved" when it was supposed to be at the same performance level from the get go as it will be after the factory changes? I would argue that it's not.

"Voluntary recall" would be the actual term, although I know no one wants to use the term "recall" as it implies something isn't right. It's voluntary as you the manufacturer are requesting it and it's to do with performance, not safety. That's actually the right term to my thinking. I've used the term "non recall" to refer to this as you previously insisted it wasn't a recall.

 

[Uisge]

Wow great English lesson guys! Very informative. Anyways I have one of the first 100 rifles made, mine is 308, and the charging handle doensnt always stay locked, so this info affects me but realistically it's not a big deal. I see a little bit of shiny in the cam pin area, mines not 100% reliable but lately it has been good for me (not my brother in law, is there a wrong way to shoot an AR-10 type? Or does mine just not like him) I'll take an upgrade but I'm not all butt hurt about it. Also, isn't the cam pin thing a common AR thing? Hence the POF roller, v7 enhanced, etc cam pins?

 

[cr5]

We can't seem to win regardless. IF we retain a clients info some come un-spooled on us, when we respect privacy it looks like we don't care.

If in doubt or having questions a call is always welcomed.

This right here, anyone having reliability problems with their rifle should have contacted ATRS first for help solving the issue instead of coming here.
Accuracy issues are one thing but reliability is something that can be fixed with help from the right people.

 

[cariboocreek]

This thread is why I have avoided being in or working in any business that is retail.

 

[Bile]

...

 

[Hitzy]

We can't seem to win regardless. IF we retain a clients info some come un-spooled on us, when we respect privacy it looks like we don't care.
If in doubt or having questions a call is always welcomed.


SOME cam pins are slightly oversized, so we can do a modification to the upper giving more clearance. Looking inside the upper where the cam pit relief is cut is simple. If you see silver where the cam pin has contacted the upper, we need to get the upper back to correct this. So far about 10% of the uppers seem to be effected.

The charge handle is something we are still working on as some guys have complained that their handle does not stay locked in place. About 15% of the 308 guns seem to be effected so we are completely redesigning the charge handle. we hope to have these done by spring and they will be available for clients to change out.

Is that what is causing the light strikes? Cam pin hitting cutout in upper, preventing carrier from moving far enough forward for the firing pin to hit the primers? Or is dishing that out more the FTF/FTE fix?

 

[cr5]

I am a little excited.

In theory, if an upgrade to just the bolt had enough interest, could that be something that could be on the drawing board in the future?

What "upgrade" to the bolt would you think would do anything to help with whatever problem you're having? Or do you just mean install a $300 bolt from one of the high end expensive manufacturers?
As long as the bolt is locking up solidly in the barrel extension it's doing exactly what any other bolt will do. If you think it's inferior just because it's a DPMS bolt then I wouldn't worry about it until you shear off a lug, DPMS has been making AR's and AR parts for a long time and even though they aren't considered a high end brand they are usually solid dependable parts.
All a high priced bolt is going to do is raise the price of the rifle, I'm sure if you were to supply one when you placed your order they would put it in for you.

 

[Epoxy7]

What "upgrade" to the bolt would you think would do anything to help with whatever problem you're having? Or do you just mean install a $300 bolt from one of the high end expensive manufacturers?
As long as the bolt is locking up solidly in the barrel extension it's doing exactly what any other bolt will do. If you think it's interior just because it's a DPMS bolt then I wouldn't worry about it until you shear off a lug, DPMS has been making AR's and AR parts for a long time and even though they aren't considered a high end brand they are usually solid dependable parts.
All a high priced bolt is going to do is raise the price of the rifle, I'm sure if you were to supply one when you placed your order they would put it in for you.

There are a couple of issues with this statement. First, wait until you shear off a lug? No thanks. Words you won't see with a DPMS BCG are MPI/hP and shot peened. You will see this with high end AR308 companies. This goes with reliability being more than just the barrel/chamber. Also the most known issue with the gen1 DPMS BCG is actually the extractor and spring. It's a known weakness that will affect the function of your rifle. Most DPMS LR308 owners have backup parts in case this occurs. There are compromises when you are running a $1500 rifle. Parts durability is usually one of those. ntm has mentioned that they now have a replacement part based on the elastopolymer extractor nub of the GII BCG. I will be looking into one of those ASAP. Overall it's not a bad product at all. For the price point I have no issues with my DPMS LR308. At the time it was half the cost of an Armalite AR10. But when you go up in price and quality you see improvements in the design even while still using the same style BCG. LMT/KAC are two prime examples. The newest DPMS GII also addresses many of the issues. With the DPMS gen1 BCG there are lots of companies that make compatible BCG that are higher end. You don't see any of the old DPMS rifles (I have hope for the GII under Remington) making any military contracts. I will say it's not because they can't shoot. They just can't stand up to the use that's expected with a military tactical precision rifle. In most cases that won't be an issue for the consumer of the MH. Just please don't tell us how high end it is because it's expensive and there are a bunch of high end parts tacked onto it. You can do that with a DPMS LR308 as well. It's still not high end.

The argument that a high priced bolt is going to raise the price of the rifle... Another $50-100 US on builds that have gone up to the 6k mark? I know retail it would be about $50 US more to $100 for a quality BCG. Which means a lot more by the time ATRS was done. But still, when you're looking at that type of price range, the extra $100 isn't the deciding factor. Alternatively I would suggest that the lower price point of the current BCG really wasn't passed on to the consumers anyways. But that's a different discussion.

I will also mention that my previous questions... Is it only the BCG that is DPMS n the MH? How about the lower parts kit other than the trigger? Was never answered. Let's keep in mind that it took some digging by myself and a few others to find out and confirm that the BCG was in fact a DPMS LR308 with an American Spirit Arms style notch cut into it. Later on Shaun of ATRS did confirm this, but it wasn't initially known until some research on this was done (A new firearms forum actually confirmed this). So digging a bit further... what else is DPMS on the MH?

 

[onetwentyish]

We can't seem to win regardless. IF we retain a clients info some come un-spooled on us, when we respect privacy it looks like we don't care.
If in doubt or having questions a call is always welcomed.

In my opinion the best way to deal with this would be to have a bulletin in your forum and on your website to notify individuals of such improvements/fixes, that way its not simply hearsay about new fixes and changes to the design.

I look forward to the improved CH.

 

[cr5]

There are a couple of issues with this statement. First, wait until you shear off a lug? No thanks. Words you won't see with a DPMS BCG are MPI/hP and shot peened. You will see this with high end AR308 companies. This goes with reliability being more than just the barrel/chamber. Also the most known issue with the gen1 DPMS BCG is actually the extractor and spring. It's a known weakness that will affect the function of your rifle. Most DPMS LR308 owners have backup parts in case this occurs. There are compromises when you are running a $1500 rifle. Parts durability is usually one of those. ntm has mentioned that they now have a replacement part based on the elastopolymer extractor nub of the GII BCG. I will be looking into one of those ASAP. Overall it's not a bad product at all. For the price point I have no issues with my DPMS LR308. At the time it was half the cost of an Armalite AR10. But when you go up in price and quality you see improvements in the design even while still using the same style BCG. LMT/KAC are two prime examples. The newest DPMS GII also addresses many of the issues. With the DPMS gen1 BCG there are lots of companies that make compatible BCG that are higher end. You don't see any of the old DPMS rifles (I have hope for the GII under Remington) making any military contracts. I will say it's not because they can't shoot. They just can't stand up to the use that's expected with a military tactical precision rifle. In most cases that won't be an issue for the consumer of the MH. Just please don't tell us how high end it is because it's expensive and there are a bunch of high end parts tacked onto it. You can do that with a DPMS LR308 as well. It's still not high end.

The argument that a high priced bolt is going to raise the price of the rifle... Another $50-100 US on builds that have gone up to the 6k mark? I know retail it would be about $50 US more to $100 for a quality BCG. Which means a lot more by the time ATRS was done. But still, when you're looking at that type of price range, the extra $100 isn't the deciding factor. Alternatively I would suggest that the lower price point of the current BCG really wasn't passed on to the consumers anyways. But that's a different discussion.

I will also mention that my previous questions... Is it only the BCG that is DPMS n the MH? How about the lower parts kit other than the trigger? Was never answered. Let's keep in mind that it took some digging by myself and a few others to find out and confirm that the BCG was in fact a DPMS LR308 with an American Spirit Arms style notch cut into it. Later on Shaun of ATRS did confirm this, but it wasn't initially known until some research on this was done (A new firearms forum actually confirmed this). So digging a bit further... what else is DPMS on the MH?

So you're being this hard on them over using a DPMS BCG because it might need $30 worth of parts and 5 min of work to replace?
MPI, shot peened? If I was going into battle or working with the rifle and my life depended on it I might worry about things like that, as a recreational shooter with other rifles in my collection I can use if I have problems with one I'm not very concerned. If I bought one and one day had issues I would just send it in for warranty and use one of my other rifles while I waited for the repair. Your concerns remind me of the guys that worry about having an optic that uses batteries because they might go dead at a critical moment but only use their rifle plinking at the range.
Not passing the savings on to the customer? Can you give me another example of a $3600 non restricted semi auto with a Timney trigger, Proof barrel, hand fitted CNC upper/lower? Hell, a POS 3moa XCR-M almost costs the same money.
I've shot three MH's and as my much earlier posts said, I wasn't overly impressed with the results I saw but ATRS has addressed the issues I brought to them or is at least working on a fix and going back to correct issues with the early rifles.
When they get the little bugs worked out this has the potential to be one of the best semi auto rifles on the market restricted or not.
Just like everyone else I'd love to be able to get one for $2000 but that's plain ignorant to think you'll ever buy a rifle with the features of a MH or MV for less than $3500. Hell a DPMS LR-308 is still $1500+ depending on what's been done to it and they're pretty much the cheapest AR you can buy.
I'm guessing the NEA102 is going to be $2000 once it hits the shelves and it won't have any fancy parts at all other than the NR sticker. Add a $500 barrel upgrade, add a $300 trigger, and some nicer furniture and you'd be getting close to the price of the MH. Pretty sure we've all heard that NEA has a pretty darn good warranty, too bad so many people have had to use it, we have no idea how their new stuff is till it's released so I'd say it will be a bigger gamble than buying from ATRS.

 

[driller212]

In other news...

I got gen 3 Pmags to work in mine, see the ATRS Modern Hunter thread in the ATRS section of the forum.

 

[Epoxy7]

So you're being this hard on them over using a DPMS BCG because it might need $30 worth of parts and 5 min of work to replace?
MPI, shot peened? If I was going into battle or working with the rifle and my life depended on it I might worry about things like that, as a recreational shooter with other rifles in my collection I can use if I have problems with one I'm not very concerned. If I bought one and one day had issues I would just send it in for warranty and use one of my other rifles while I waited for the repair. Your concerns remind me of the guys that worry about having an optic that uses batteries because they might go dead at a critical moment but only use their rifle plinking at the range.
Not passing the savings on to the customer? Can you give me another example of a $3600 non restricted semi auto with a Timney trigger, Proof barrel, hand fitted CNC upper/lower? Hell, a POS 3moa XCR-M almost costs the same money.
I've shot three MH's and as my much earlier posts said, I wasn't overly impressed with the results I saw but ATRS has addressed the issues I brought to them or is at least working on a fix and going back to correct issues with the early rifles.
When they get the little bugs worked out this has the potential to be one of the best semi auto rifles on the market restricted or not.
Just like everyone else I'd love to be able to get one for $2000 but that's plain ignorant to think you'll ever buy a rifle with the features of a MH or MV for less than $3500. Hell a DPMS LR-308 is still $1500+ depending on what's been done to it and they're pretty much the cheapest AR you can buy.
I'm guessing the NEA102 is going to be $2000 once it hits the shelves and it won't have any fancy parts at all other than the NR sticker. Add a $500 barrel upgrade, add a $300 trigger, and some nicer furniture and you'd be getting close to the price of the MH. Pretty sure we've all heard that NEA has a pretty darn good warranty, too bad so many people have had to use it, we have no idea how their new stuff is till it's released so I'd say it will be a bigger gamble than buying from ATRS.

In the 4K range after taxes, I worry about things like MPI, shot peened etc. I don't plink with these types of rifles. I shoot reloads and or $2 a round match ammo. It's time/money to shoot these, so I want it to be as problem free as possible to enjoy the time I do get. Also not all of us live in Alberta and can drive it there for warranty work. Having to pay to send it back for warranty work is yet another factor I wouldn't consider a value enhancement.

No it really doesn't have the potential to be one of the best semi autos on the market restricted or not. Anyone who knows AR308 rifles knows that to be completely incorrect. For all the reasons I've already listed and that you seem to think is being hard on them about.

The standard model for $3600 doesn't come with a proof barrel. That's a $1075 upgrade on top of the $3600. $4675 for that proof barrel and the basic model (no ambi, DPMS handguard, A2 furniture).

Now let's also look at the fact that DPMS has moved onto their GII models. A new G2 is under $2K in Canada. The 24" bull barrel GII version of the LR308 is $1066 Us so under $1400 Canadian from Irunguns before tax/shipping. Anyone who has gone over a GII vs the GI would never go back to a GI DPMS. Unless you're doing a budget parts build, the GI is done.

The NEA 102 if it gets the final NR (it's at the same spot right now as when ATRS was advertising the Modern hunter already as non restricted) has been stated to be priced around $1600 plus there is IOP pricing of 15% off. The barrel is actually supposed to be from a pretty good blank and it's SS as well. So that may not require being changed at all. The trigger is likely going to require an upgrade. $250ish for a trigger upgrade if needed. Pretty good base gun for under $2K before taxes. That being said, still waiting for the non restricted FRT number on the commercial product. No side charging handle, but big deal. I'll put a $20 Badger tactical latch which works great for me and call it a day. Frankly for that price range I can accept a lesser quality BCG although I'm hoping the ARmalite AR10 ones can also be used. Once you get near the 4K range, I expect a quality product all the way through with no compromises.

 

[cr5]

In the 4K range after taxes, I worry about things like MPI, shot peened etc. I don't plink with these types of rifles. I shoot reloads and or $2 a round match ammo. It's time/money to shoot these, so I want it to be as problem free as possible to enjoy the time I do get. Also not all of us live in Alberta and can drive it there for warranty work. Having to pay to send it back for warranty work is yet another factor I wouldn't consider a value enhancement.

No it really doesn't have the potential to be one of the best semi autos on the market restricted or not. Anyone who knows AR308 rifles knows that to be completely incorrect. For all the reasons I've already listed and that you seem to think is being hard on them about.

The standard model for $3600 doesn't come with a proof barrel. That's a $1075 upgrade on top of the $3600. $4675 for that proof barrel and the basic model (no ambi, DPMS handguard, A2 furniture).

Now let's also look at the fact that DPMS has moved onto their GII models. A new G2 is under $2K in Canada. The 24" bull barrel GII version of the LR308 is $1066 Us so under $1400 Canadian from Irunguns before tax/shipping. Anyone who has gone over a GII vs the GI would never go back to a GI DPMS. Unless you're doing a budget parts build, the GI is done.

The NEA 102 if it gets the final NR (it's at the same spot right now as when ATRS was advertising the Modern hunter already as non restricted) has been stated to be priced around $1600 plus there is IOP pricing of 15% off. The barrel is actually supposed to be from a pretty good blank and it's SS as well. So that may not require being changed at all. The trigger is likely going to require an upgrade. $250ish for a trigger upgrade if needed. Pretty good base gun for under $2K before taxes. That being said, still waiting for the non restricted FRT number on the commercial product. No side charging handle, but big deal. I'll put a $20 Badger tactical latch which works great for me and call it a day. Frankly for that price range I can accept a lesser quality BCG although I'm hoping the ARmalite AR10 ones can also be used. Once you get near the 4K range, I expect a quality product all the way through with no compromises.

I guess we'll have to agree on some points and agree to disagree on others.
I hope you're right about the pricing of the NEA but I'm sceptical. I could see them selling it to retailers for that price then the retailers will add 20-25% so they make some money. Regardless, if they come to us for $2000ish I'll be giving one a test run, I do miss my AR-10's but just don't have much use for a restricted rifle anymore now that I can shoot at home and have a hard time justifying $4k for a rifle that I'm just going to have some fun with and maybe shoot the odd coyote with.
I'd still like to get my hands on a MH or MV so I could do some load development and see what they're actually capable of instead of reading all the posts from guys who don't understand that surplus isn't going to make small groups or who just don't know how to shoot. These should be able to print sub moa with good ammo all day long considering the quality of barrel that's in them yet the only positive accuracy results I've seen are from one guy with a 6.5 creedmore which also sits on the EE.

 

[Chago]

I guess we'll have to agree on some points and agree to disagree on others.
I hope you're right about the pricing of the NEA but I'm sceptical. I could see them selling it to retailers for that price then the retailers will add 20-25% so they make some money. Regardless, if they come to us for $2000ish I'll be giving one a test run, I do miss my AR-10's but just don't have much use for a restricted rifle anymore now that I can shoot at home and have a hard time justifying $4k for a rifle that I'm just going to have some fun with and maybe shoot the odd coyote with.
I'd still like to get my hands on a MH or MV so I could do some load development and see what they're actually capable of instead of reading all the posts from guys who don't understand that surplus isn't going to make small groups or who just don't know how to shoot. These should be able to print sub moa with good ammo all day long considering the quality of barrel that's in them yet the only positive accuracy results I've seen are from one guy with a 6.5 creedmore which also sits on the EE.

I reload for my bolt precision rifles. I do a lot of long range shooting and am very familiar with the mechanics and know how when it comes to precision reloading. I gave up on my modern hunter. Mine came from factory was not a used rifle. I tried amax, Berger, Sierra match kings. I tried varget, 4305, 8208 xbr. I tried various seating depths, Brass lengths eTC.

Take that for what it's worth. I had the stainless barrel not the proof.

 

[onetwentyish]

I guess we'll have to agree on some points and agree to disagree on others.
I hope you're right about the pricing of the NEA but I'm sceptical. I could see them selling it to retailers for that price then the retailers will add 20-25% so they make some money. Regardless, if they come to us for $2000ish I'll be giving one a test run, I do miss my AR-10's but just don't have much use for a restricted rifle anymore now that I can shoot at home and have a hard time justifying $4k for a rifle that I'm just going to have some fun with and maybe shoot the odd coyote with.
I'd still like to get my hands on a MH or MV so I could do some load development and see what they're actually capable of instead of reading all the posts from guys who don't understand that surplus isn't going to make small groups or who just don't know how to shoot. These should be able to print sub moa with good ammo all day long considering the quality of barrel that's in them yet the only positive accuracy results I've seen are from one guy with a 6.5 creedmore which also sits on the EE.

I allready offered you my MH in the past and you didn't want it!

 

[mildcustom2]

The Modern Hunter and ATRS are in the same boat as NEA when they first started up. Quality issues with parts and design flaws. I use the term design loosely because most of the dimensions for the receivers are standard AR dimensions and all the parts used to assemble the rifles are sourced from other manufactures.

The only difference is ATRS charges 4x the amount for their product while offering the same poor customer service/after sale support. One doesn't have to spend a lot of time searching the internet to find the information to support my statement. Unfortunately in the past anything negative posted about the Modern Hunter here was deleted although it seems something has changed recently.

Hopefully it gets worked out so all those that have purchased one can feel better about the thousands they have spent on their rifle.

 

[Rstjean]

I allready offered you my MH in the past and you didn't want it!

Well if your giving it away I will take it off your hands. Lol