Some of us buy and sell things often. I bought a Barrett mrad 338lm then 4-5 months later bought a cadex 338lm just because I prefer Canadian products and I think it looks nicer. Now my mrad is up for sale not because it wasn't a really good gun I just liked the cadex a little bit more.
ATRS modern hunter?
- Thread starter chunkydrunky
- Start date
Just curious, how are light strikes ATRS's fault? It has a Timney trigger which would mean Timney is crap?
This is exactly why it was recommended by the manufacturer not to run surplus but of course a good percentage of the people who bought one went out and threw a cheap Bushnell scope on it and want to run surplus then complain about the performance of the rifle.
First paragraph response,
When I got my second AR-10 it was a full build from another member here. Matched Mega Arms upper/lower, Rainier Arms ultra-match barrel, Geissele trigger, yadda yadda yadda. Funny part is that it came with a JP enhanced bolt and a DPMS bolt and I had to send the JP bolt back for replacement and the DPMS one worked perfectly.
Second paragraph response
ATRS will substitute parts you supply if you tell them what you want when you order it. Onetwentyish did it with his MV.
Third paragraph response
I don't question your credibility, It was you I PM'd prior to buying my first AR-10 for your advice and I'd do it again if I had questions about the AR-10 platform.
Lastly,
I don't have a lot of use for a non restricted 308 semi these days, I've gone back to being practical for hunting and set up a nice Rem 700 in 7-08 rather than lug around an expensive and heavy semi just because I can. I am seriously considering a MV though as I do a lot more fun shooting with the 223, the only thing holding me back is that I already own a NR ACR with a stainless 223 and 300BLK conversions and I doubt the MV will shoot any better than the ACR. Plus my ACR has been 100% reliable so far. Plus I've also got an AR180B-2 for when I want something lightweight.
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I don't think it's the trigger causing light strikes...
I asked Rick in this thread earlier about one of the "improvements" where the cam pin dish in the upper gets enlarged because the "oversized" cam pins are hitting it when going into battery. Was opening up the dish for cam pin clearance a fix for the light strikes or the FTF/FTE was my question...no response yet.
I think that's what's causing the light strikes. If the cam pin is preventing the carrier from going far enough forward, the firing pin won't hit the primer deep enough.
Even 6MT claims to have shot a bunch of Hirt with no issues which is that terrible "surplus" crap that's not supposed to work in these. Timney triggers are used in other AR10's/AR15's with no issues and no warnings about not using surplus, so really, no, I doubt it has anything to do with the trigger.
Honestly your all becoming very annoying. On both sides of the ball here. I'm the only person from either side of the argument in the last like 7 pages who owned one and gave there experiences. The rest of you are saying the rifles suck with no proof. And the others swearing it's the best rifle with no proof. Shut up all of you and let people who actually one chime in. They are not giving any feedback in fear of being flamed from one side or the other.
Actually I own one, 6mt did own one, onetwwntyish has one, and cr5 has put a lot of rnds through 3 modern hunters I believe. Your not the only one. Haha.
The three rifles I've shot were all first batch rifles prior to any repairs or updates.
The rifle I have the most rounds through is the one Onetentyish now owns and he just got it back from ATRS where the upper was opened up for the cam pin. His rifle is one of the first ones that was built and I have well over 100 rounds through it but the problems we were having were not light strikes but pierced primers with a couple different brands of ammo.
We each shot a five round group with the MH with 9 different types of ammo including some surplus I had lying around the first day side by side with my AR-10 and noted which ones worked and which ones didn't in each rifle and compared accuracy with each of us shooting with the MH.
Stormchaser and I gave an honest unbiased report of what we witnessed and I sent Rick a couple emails about some of the issues we had with the rifle which he obviously took seriously as he made changes to the rifles released after that. The thread Stormchaser started to share our findings was deleted by him when he got an infraction for telling off one of the trolls who had to jump all over it because none of the groups were sub moa even though it clearly stated we were shooting in less than ideal conditions and none of the ammo was match grade stuff.
What's actually annoying is people who think that the only people who are allowed to have an opinion are people who own one. I have more rounds through three different modern hunters than most owners on here and I've tried many different types of ammo through them. I'm not bashing or praising it, only reporting what I experienced and trying to understand and maybe sway the opinions of some that have a negative opinion with no first hand experience. I don't think the rifle is perfect but I also don't think it's as bad as some believe it is and it doesn't deserve the flak it gets.
In my opinion Rick went out on a limb and brought us exactly what we were all crying for then as soon as it was released a few people jumped all over it because it wasn't perfect. Sure, it needs a little tweaking here and there but that's how it goes with everything new to the market, eventually you have to get the product in the hands of customers for final testing or you go out of business when your investment is just sitting there not making any money. As long as ATRS is willing to take the rifle back and address any issues experienced by the owner I'd say he's doing his due diligence and deserves our respect. He took a huge risk to do this project, it could have just as easily been stamped restricted by the CFO and he would have lost a lot of money being stuck with an expensive rifle with very little market for it.
In my opinion it is very fairly priced and to say it's not is just plain ignorant. My AR-10 build cost over $3500 retail just to buy the parts and it was restricted. Rick has brought us a product that I thought was going to cost more than he's selling it for and I think that very shortly the bugs will be worked out and it will be a fantastic rifle for the shooters out there that understand ammunition and have experience shooting a semi auto for groups.
I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of the people who shoot one then complain it won't shoot sub moa have never actually shot a sub moa group in their life with a semi or a bolt action. I'll skip the analogies but the rifle can't make the shooter do their job and it can only show what ammo it likes. Since every barrel is different it's impossible for ATRS to tell owners what ammo their rifle will shoot well unless they were to run a bunch of ammo through each rifle prior to shipping it which is costly both financially and with time which would have to be passed onto the customer which would mean less sales.
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Well put cr5. I appreciate your continued rebuttals to those who have an incessant need to bash Rick and ATRS' product while ignoring many of the facts. I grew tired of this arguement long ago, hence why I am now trying to get my rifle to this respected shooter, I want to settle this once and for all.
Maybe the biggest problem is the rifle wasn't tested enough before being released to the public....a hand fitted 4K+ custom rifle shouldn't have any issues and IMHO accuracy should have been consistently well less than 1 MOA with quality off the shelf match grade ammo....the pre-sale hype from ATRS was it is capable of .5-.75 MOA.
I'm so glad I decided to wait for range reports before buying this rifle!
Hopefully all the issue of function and accuracy will be sorted out soon...but now to many future and past buyers it has to overcome a stigma.
I'll keep monitoring its range reports as they are posted....I could care less what it does with surplus ammo., its what it will do "consistently" with quality ammo that will make it a go or non-go for me.
I'm so glad I decided to wait for range reports before buying this rifle!
Hopefully all the issue of function and accuracy will be sorted out soon...but now to many future and past buyers it has to overcome a stigma.
I'll keep monitoring its range reports as they are posted....I could care less what it does with surplus ammo., its what it will do "consistently" with quality ammo that will make it a go or non-go for me.
I never complained about rick or his service once. Nor did I say it was too expensivee. To me no gun is too expensive if it's performs. I own $10k customs. I have S&B scopes that cost $6k. I appreciate quality. Hence why I forked up almost $5k on a presale for a modern hunter. I gave my money to support what ATRS was doing. Did you? No exactly you waited for the reviews. So save me the speech about supporting ATRS in what they did.
All I said from the beginning was this rifle was aadvertised to be a semi auto shooter. Cause if it wasn't a shooter then a xcr would have been just fine. But ATRS rep for being precision rifles, I was excited to finally hold a sub moa semi auto that was non restricted. Hence why I pre ordered. It came and shot worse then my xcr. I tried so.many different loads. Nothing worked . Yes some.got better but none were amazing. So again my only Comment was I was let down on the accuracy. I would bet my house not one guy in Canada will shoot sub moa all day with that gun. Meaning 5 groups of 5 shots on one page. And do it over and over. Maybe yours can. Mine for sure could not. And I don't want to speak on something I don't know for sure. But I'm pretty positive the guy I sold to. Worked with ATRS on correcting it. And eventually got frustrated too and sold. So again. That should NOT happen on a $4500 rifle from a precision maker. I don't care how badly you want to be in their fan club. Facts are facts. Sorry ATRS. You guys are awesome. I Would look at your rifles again in future. But it seems like the same poor accuracy reviews coming up for.the varmint now.
P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
is it possible that the barrels are the wrong length? Colt Canada selected 15.7 inches as the best for the C8. almost all AR10 precision guns are 20, 24 inches. i know there are some good 16 and a couple 18. but maybe the 18.6 is at the wrong frequency.
I will post some as soon as I can but like I said before I have a broken ankle and it's hard to pack my rifle through the snow on crutches.
Mine has a 22 inch barrel so maybe you have something with this.
Yes my best group is 0.5" group with this rifle and it's not even mine. A friendd of mine has one and I made a few loads to test with him. My only criticism is it's restricted. I was so excited for the MH because it was NR. We still don't have a NR available with that kind of accuracy. My factory ACR DMR is being delivered as we speak. I'll be testing it next week. So fingers crossed.
And for the record. I get it these are semi auto. They are not bolts and they never will. Most.semi are designed for battle and in battle sub moa means nothing. 3 even 4 moa is good enough. So by no means am i saying semi rifles are junk. My xcr averages about 2 moa. I still.love it and own it. It occasionally shoots a sub moa groups or 2 but not consistent. But it's ok it's still a fun rifle. But when it comes.to 5k semi auto. They need to be able.to shoot. Otherwise I'll stick to my xcr when I want to play Rambo
Not sure if that would effect accuracy. I mean barrel length can effect velocity and different rates of twist would help stabilize different weight bullets. But I don't think a rifle can be too long. Well.let me take that back. I think there is no too long for accuracy.
15.7 is optimized for C77 ball ammo with its specific pressure curb, powder type/weight, bullet type/weight, primer, etc. If you reload you can fine tune a load for any barrel length. It's a long process and requires a lot of testing.
If there is really something chronic about the accuracy, it should be fixable, It's complicated but not rocket science. If a s&w m&p10 can muster (if I am not mistaken ) 1 moa it should be an attainable goal with this rifle.
The ones who had accuracy problem, have you check to see if the gas block hits the rail? Check if the bullet sometimes get push in the cassing due to feed ramp shape/angle/geometry? Have you check the head space? Could it be over gas?
I mean we know there good barrels, so if all that checks out... there must just be a little something right? I mean this is not a rfb or a xcr, it's a ar10ish pattern rifle so there is loads and loads of data around and knowledgeable people with great experience with ar 10. So one should be able to put there finger on the problem with those problematic guns
The ones who had accuracy problem, have you check to see if the gas block hits the rail? Check if the bullet sometimes get push in the cassing due to feed ramp shape/angle/geometry? Have you check the head space? Could it be over gas?
I mean we know there good barrels, so if all that checks out... there must just be a little something right? I mean this is not a rfb or a xcr, it's a ar10ish pattern rifle so there is loads and loads of data around and knowledgeable people with great experience with ar 10. So one should be able to put there finger on the problem with those problematic guns
Lol, first of all my comments were directed at the people slagging the rifle who have never owned, shot or even handled one.
Second, I'm so far from a fanboy, I've simply spent enough time behind a few modern hunters to know there is a lot of potential there if the little bugs can be ironed out.
Third, when it comes to posting groups, Stormchaser did post pics of a bunch of the group's we printed when he got his rifle and we spent the day at the range and my comments were very similar to yours, it performed well but I was disappointed that the best we could do with the ammo on hand was about 1.5moa with Hornady 168 z-max.
I agree that for the money and considering who is building them they should be printing tighter groups but like I said, I think a lot of the problems but not all of them are user induced problems and the lack of accuracy is in most cases a result of shooter ability and ammo choice.
The more we go through this the more tempted I am to take Onetwentyish up on his offer to leave his rifle with me to do some load development with it. If I didn't already have a few other rifles in need of load development I would already have his rifle at my house. I have a 100yd range 10 feet out the back door of my shop and I don't think it would take long to find a load it likes if I didn't have so much other crap that needed to be done.
