Battle of the bullpups! Type 97 vs Tavor... which is your pick?

Which bullpup?!

  • Total voters
    1,205
Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard and dont point it at anything you dont want to shoot! That is my t97 safety. If i dont trust some one with a gun off safety i dont shoot with them.

How does the barrel gouge affect the bullet? There is a hole throught the wall of the barrel right across from it!

Mine after 100 rounds

-poor iron sights/ im getting used to them but im gonna chop them off and get the ftu with all the money i saved
-Non existent feed ramp results in bullets pushed deep inside of casings/ mine works fine
-Barrel gouge/ i dont notice one on mine
-difficult to mount sights to with out up-gradeing/ $1700 left over i could buy a milling machine with
-poor mag release/ watch the videos of the asians useing them, seems to work just fine and if i need to change a 10 round pistol mag that quick im in over my head
-no bolt release/ good just like a 10/22 one less thing to go wrong
-terrible safety, which I find results in the safety not being used/ what safety? You are the safety on any gun.
-poorly placed RECIPROCATING charging handle/ ftu
-odd ball commie muzzle threads/ im sure t97.ca will have something soon
-terrible mag compatibility/ 10 rounders work fine, trade in your plastic ones if you dont want to make them fit.
-more difficult to field strip and put back together (more loose pieces)/ ok now this one is bs cause i can push outh the 1 rear pin and have the piston out, and back together in no time. I kinda want to time myself
-no spare parts to be had/ buy 3. If you can afford the ammo to wear one out buy 6
-Not lefty compatible comfortably with out modification/ im not a lefty so its not an issue for me but any southpaws out there feel free to add to it. It throws to the 2:00 so it should miss you


This is a very mass produced gun. Who knows how many they have stock piled over there. This could be the new sks on our hands here. The aftermarket might open up alot of possibilities here
 
My answers will be filled into the quote below in bold.

Lobo4short said:
Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard and dont point it at anything you dont want to shoot! That is my t97 safety. If i dont trust some one with a gun off safety i dont shoot with them. While I agree with you on this, I do try to bring out allot of newbies, teaching them about gun safety and then telling them not to bother with this one is kinda backwards.

How does the barrel gouge affect the bullet? There is a hole throught the wall of the barrel right across from it! I Agree! Except that it is difficult to get that spot cleaned out as it is a pocket in the barrel, not a port. Also one CGNer now has a hair line fracture in his from the gouge after only 100 rounds! Try and tell me you would pay a $1000 for that!

Mine after 100 rounds

-poor iron sights/ im getting used to them but im gonna chop them off and get the ftu with all the money i saved Yup.
-Non existent feed ramp results in bullets pushed deep inside of casings/ mine works fine YMMV. Mine jams a bullet into the casing at least a couple times every range trip. Results in gun powder every where.
-Barrel gouge/ i dont notice one on mine Once again YMMV, some didn't have it. Mine does and Jon from North Sylva has yet to do ANYTHING about it because he knows it will be on his dime because the chinese couldn't give a rats a$$
-difficult to mount sights to with out up-gradeing/ $1700 left over i could buy a milling machine with while you may have the room for one and may have the experience, it is still going to be a lot bs for something that should have been factory. These are newly manufactured rifles, that already underwent significant design changes to be adapted to the Stanag magazine and the .223/5.56 caliber. Also the the whole trigger group got reworked, with alot of Jon's input. I am sure it would have been relatively simple and inexpensive to add basically an FTU from factory rather then us hacking up our T97s and paying MORE money to do it.
-poor mag release/ watch the videos of the asians useing them, seems to work just fine they are not even useing T97s. They are using QBZ-95s, which use the chinese 5.8 cartridge. They have rock and lock mags and a different better mag release. and if i need to change a 10 round pistol mag that quick im in over my head competition. Or SHTF. Your choice. Either way, it is absolutely unacceptable.
-no bolt release/ good just like a 10/22 one less thing to go wrong While I do agree, there is a reason why most modern battle rifles have them. The Tavors is very imple and can't be messed up in any way that I can see. What can get messed up is the bolt hold open device, which on the tavor happens on mags that have a rounded cut out like gen 2 pmags (they can be filed to fix this problem). Beside that both guns have bolt hold open devices.
-terrible safety, which I find results in the safety not being used/ what safety? You are the safety on any gun. We already went over this.
-poorly placed RECIPROCATING charging handle/ ftu Agreed, this is fixable with the FTU which you would probably get to fix the sights issue.
-odd ball commie muzzle threads/ im sure t97.ca will have something soon Maybe, but even so it is kind of pointless considering we can't use existing comps, brakes, and flashiders on the market.
-terrible mag compatibility/ 10 rounders work fine, trade in your plastic ones if you dont want to make them fit. not all ten rounders work fine. YMMV. Besides. Who wants 10 rounders when all you need is Beowulf mags! And no, I am not going to trade in my pmags that are much lighter and function much better in everything except the T97. The T97 is the problem. I should be able to stick just about any stanag mag in there and have good results, if not, then it is the gun that has an issue.
-more difficult to field strip and put back together (more loose pieces)/ ok now this one is bs cause i can push outh the 1 rear pin and have the piston out, and back together in no time. I kinda want to time myself Be my guest. Do it on the tailgate of your pickup truck. Oops, the wind just blew away your takedown pin, better go find it in the grass. This is real talk from experience. Just to note I was comparing the Tavor and T97 take down time. I could easily do the Tavor 5-6 times taking it apart and puting it back together in the time it would take to do the T97 once.
-no spare parts to be had/ buy 3. If you can afford the ammo to wear one out buy 6 you called me ridiculus on your one point above and then do this? f:P:
-Not lefty compatible comfortably with out modification/ im not a lefty so its not an issue for me but any southpaws out there feel free to add to it. It throws to the 2:00 so it should miss you I am a Southpaw. I own one. It chews the hell out of my chin if I am not minding it for every shot I make which can be very distracting and make it hard to focus on the shot. Trust me, your chin will bleed, and be comprised of dozens of semi circular cut marks from the rim of the brass gouging your chin as it goes by.


This is a very mass produced gun. Who knows how many they have stock piled over there. This could be the new sks on our hands here. It is a newly designed version sold only to the Canadian and I believe New Zealand market, both of which are very limited. There are none stockpiled over there that are Canadian legal, just what is arriving by boat every 6 months. The new SKS? Not even a chance. The aftermarket might open up alot of possibilities here The products being made for the T97 may be more innovative then the products being made for the Tavor, but that has a lot to do with the fact that there is so much needed to be corrected on the T97. Overall we will see much more support for the Tavor though because it is available in the US now, Chinese guns are not.
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One more thing that came to mind on the T97 was the lack of a flared mag well.

Overall is the T97 is a great gun, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Sure you can put the FTU on it, and the LHG when it comes, but I don't feel that it will wver be able to compete with the tavor for either reliability or ease of use. The T97 does fill a void in our market since bullpup stalks are illegal and this is our cheapest alternative. While a neat idea, it lacks the necessary features to ever be a true competition, SHTF, or modern battle rifle. The reliabilty is questionable at best, and while the add ons do enhance the guns use, it all just remains as lipstick on pig.

If you want to spend $1100 on the rifle plus $350 on an FTU, and then however much on the LHG, Buttplate adapter, flared mag well adapter, and modified mag release, be my guest. But you are still only just starting to get closer to the Tavor, and you will be getting very close to being able to buy a used Tavor for just a couple hundred more.

Im now a fan of "Buy once, cry once" after having cried a few to many times trying to make something it's not.

You can try all you want, but an SKS will never be an AR, nor will a T97 ever be a Tavor.
 
Comparing apples to oranges is pointless. Of course you're going to get a better gun overall when you spend 2.5X the $$$. For me the bullpup design in general is not one that I care for too much. They all look fugly to me. I'd spend $1000 on one for fun but $2700? No way
 
Iv both handled and shot both, I own a t97nsr, The t97 has a very long trigger pull but its alot lighter than the tavor, i guess there is a fix for the tavor triggers now, i havent shot one with that, the mag release on the t97 is my only complaint. if anyone has any ideas for an oversized mag release please PM me and teach me!! haha, and as far as price goes, i dont feel bad about banging my t97 up and using it as a truck gun. a tavor i would based on price alone. as far as quality of manufactoring, id assume the tavor takes it, id have to disassemble each in one day. but ultimatly id take my t97 with the machined upper and lower. To each their own i suppose.
 
SWAT said:
Comparing apples to oranges is pointless. Of course you're going to get a better gun overall when you spend 2.5X the $$$.
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This is exactly it. The T97 really doesn't have anything to compare to. Comparing a Tavor to a FS2000 makes the most sense, even the RFB is a stretch because it is filling a different role... Sure the T97 is great in its own way, but it is in a class of its own that consists of you get what you pay for just like any class.
 
Oh boy my t97 started doing the cute little trick where it shoves the bullet in the case. PITA! Ill figure something out. I cut apart and weld way more expensive stuff every day.
 
My T97 was a POS and the ergonomics don't even compare to the Tavor. No contest. Price doesn't matter if the cheaper option doesn't work!
 
Lobo4short said:
Oh boy my t97 started doing the cute little trick where it shoves the bullet in the case. PITA! Ill figure something out. I cut apart and weld way more expensive stuff every day.
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Gotta admit that while I am almost glad it happened to you so you can see my frustration, I am sadened I am not the only one.

I beleive there was a thread put up by t_102 on where to file in feed ramps for the bullets, just saw it the other day.
 
Lobo4short said:
Oh boy my t97 started doing the cute little trick where it shoves the bullet in the case. PITA! Ill figure something out. I cut apart and weld way more expensive stuff every day.
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Ya, mine did that "cute little trick" from the start. Nothing worse than a bolt-partially-forward stoppage while a raodside coyote is making a hasty retreat.
...and it came with an angled feed ramp from the factory. My M4 is the only flawless Norinco I own. My M305 works good now, but the front sight was loose from the factory, so what else did they do wrong on the inside???
 
thevolvoguy said:
I love my tavor/elcan setup, unbelievably accurate never had a FTF or FTE and I use it all the time.
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What are you getting for accurracy from your Tavor? Mine is pretty new and I haven't had much time for testing different ammo. So far, the cheap Winchester ammo is giving me about 4 moa, 2" groups at 50m.
 
fenceline said:
Package deal on a Tavor + T97????

When running the Type 97, remember that the Chinese use the right hand to manipulate the gun, not the left handed manipulation that us western Tavor/AR types are used to.

Keep your left hand on the fore stock, work the mag changes with your right hand, and the action with your right hand, and it will feel like it all makes sense.

Gave up on left handed mag changes, its not how the gun is designed.
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This is untrue. These videos depict actual training techniques used by the Chinese military for their QBZ rifles:


 
I have a T97nsr ... i just recently cut the sights off... put the FTU on... mounted a AR Optics tdot from bushnell, and a few other things... and yesterday while i was buying ammo from the gun store i saw the tavor there on the shelf.... always interested in the tavor before i bought the t97... i asked to see it... hold it... they put it in my hands and a laughed out loud... and said ITS A PIECE OF PLASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!... seriously .. the receiver was plastic.. everything around the barrel was plastic... it felt like a toy gun compared to the t97 even in its stock form. Mine only has the lower abs plastic and the rear of the gun is plastic.. but the receiver is all metal.. the upper is CNC aluminum with a non reciprocating charge handle it just feels more like a real rifle should.
 
I have both. Both have different characteristics. The Tavor has better quality and ergonomics, but it also costs a lot more. The T97 is great value for the money. So far, both have functioned flawlessly and both have good accuracy.
 
I have both. I like the Tavor better. I only wish you could detail strip the Tavor as easily as you can the T97. Tavor has ran with zero issues. T97, i have had the 'bullet pushed in' syndrome happen a bunch of times. If they modify the T97 to use the same safety and mag release as the rifle in service in China I would be very happy - oh, and fix the .223 feeding issues - or just make the T97 in 5.8mm and import that ammo to Canada :)
 
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