Interesting. I wonder what GOABC had to say about this idea, I would have figured they'd be against it and that they'd have more sway, but maybe not due to the ndp being in power?
BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
Interesting. I wonder what GOABC had to say about this idea, I would have figured they'd be against it and that they'd have more sway, but maybe not due to the ndp being in power?
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
Ok, I'll play.
Calling BS on the "fist size groups at 70 yards"? Sorry, but the .001" straightness arrows with brass front inserts for optimal FOC and 2" vanes I made up make it quite easy to shoot 1" groups at 50 yards and fist size groups at 70. Like I said, practicing at 50 yards or less is practically pointless because the arrows go pretty well exactly where you aim.
As for when archery regulations were first drafted, do you really think decisions were based on the anticipation of people using the crossbows and scopes available today? It's more likely they were based on crossbows shooting 100-150fps slower with iron or pin type sights.
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
I'll give you my $1000+ crossbow, shipping included, if you post a video of you using your compound to shoot smaller groups than my scoped crossbow at 50 yards.
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
I was able to determine they were and are opposed to this proposal. I expect to learn of there next move in this regard over the holidays.
Nog
Thanks for the update.
In your post you say that you've never shot a deer over 40 yards, and then go onto to talk about how regs were written back when 40 yards was a long shot.
Group size with a crossbow is kind of irrelevant, so I'm not sure why you're so hung up on it.
I agree. Why do people care how a tag gets filled? It's not like you can kill as many deer as you like for 3 weeks every year. You fill your tag, you're done. Crossbow, long bow, ball pein hammer, who cares?
No wonder our government keeps growing. Now you will need to apply for special permits to use scoped crossbow, as someone suggested in this thread? How many more provincial employees should be hired to process the applications for special disability permit to use scoped crossbows? I will apply even though I'm not that disabled. Who doesn't want to apply? Everyone has a reason or excuse to apply. How can the government turn my application down? My shoulder injury is the pain that I'm feeling, how can other people deny it?
The answer is that they will hire nobody to do the extra work. They’ll add more process to the existing staff as usual.
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
What to do in response:
First for BC Hunters: On the original post, there is a link.
Upper left corner "Sign In". You do that the same way as signing in to your BC Hunting Account.
Then you can cast a vote for any and all of the proposals, and comment after you have done so.
Important Step.
Second:
Write the BCWF and inform them you are opposed. CC to any and all of your own affiliates, and then cc to the provincial government.
Also an Important Step.
BCWF: - ATTENTION: All Executives and members of the Board: officeinfo@bcwf.bc.ca , emma.kingsland@bcwf.bc.ca
Province of BC Environment Minister George Heyman: ENV.minister@gov.bc.ca
CC: Premier John Horgan: Premier@gov.bc.ca
Andrew Weaver ; andrew.weaver.mla@leg.bc.ca
I also recommend cc'ing everyone who was identified as being at the table when this bull#### was passed:
GOABC: info@goabc.org
BC Trappers Assc: info@bctrappers.ca
Wild Sheep Society: exec@wildsheepsociety.com
United Bowhunters of BC: info@ubbc.ca (Note: Uncertain if that address still works. It is off their now defunct website)
Interesting Note: The Wildlife Stewardship Council does not openly list their email address, but you can reach them with this form link: http://www.wildlifestewardshipcouncil.com/contact-us
Following up with paper copies goes a looooong way.
Cheers,
Nog
First for BC Hunters: On the original post, there is a link.
Upper left corner "Sign In". You do that the same way as signing in to your BC Hunting Account.
Then you can cast a vote for any and all of the proposals, and comment after you have done so.
Important Step.
Second:
Write the BCWF and inform them you are opposed. CC to any and all of your own affiliates, and then cc to the provincial government.
Also an Important Step.
BCWF: - ATTENTION: All Executives and members of the Board: officeinfo@bcwf.bc.ca , emma.kingsland@bcwf.bc.ca
Province of BC Environment Minister George Heyman: ENV.minister@gov.bc.ca
CC: Premier John Horgan: Premier@gov.bc.ca
Andrew Weaver ; andrew.weaver.mla@leg.bc.ca
I also recommend cc'ing everyone who was identified as being at the table when this bull#### was passed:
GOABC: info@goabc.org
BC Trappers Assc: info@bctrappers.ca
Wild Sheep Society: exec@wildsheepsociety.com
United Bowhunters of BC: info@ubbc.ca (Note: Uncertain if that address still works. It is off their now defunct website)
Interesting Note: The Wildlife Stewardship Council does not openly list their email address, but you can reach them with this form link: http://www.wildlifestewardshipcouncil.com/contact-us
Following up with paper copies goes a looooong way.
Cheers,
Nog
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
An interesting and comprehensive study from Wisconsin.
https://dnr.wi.gov/About/NRB/2019/October/00%20Tuesday%202019-10-3A%20Wisconsin%20Crossbow%20Report%20Final.pdf
"The preponderance of the evidence from these multiple lines of inquiry suggests that all-inclusive crossbow use is not currently a biological concern for deer herd management or a pressing
social issue for most hunters.
Another area of interest is the distance at which deer can be harvested by crossbows compared with compound bows. On the motivations survey, the maximum range at which hunters reported they would take a shot at a deer differed between guns and stringed weapons; but no significant difference was found in the reported maximum ranges for crossbow and compound bow users.
Finally, we surveyed state agencies in 19 states about the establishment of crossbows as a legal weapon in their state, who their crossbow users were, and any effects on the state’s deer herd the addition of crossbows may have had. Most states that allow crossbow use allow it statewide during the entire archery season. States that did not allow crossbow use for all bow hunters, restricted their use because of concerns for perceived crowding, over-harvest (primarily of mule deer), appropriate weapon classification, and/or opposition by archery organizations. No state interviewed that allowed crossbow use has shortened its season or restricted crossbow use from the original law.
The addition of crossbows in these states showed little impact on established seasons/traditions or hunters’ willingness to bag deer,and crossbows did not cause any change in total deer harvest or any measurable biological impact on the state’s deer herd.
As society changes and as the use of technology continues to evolve, it is the department’s responsibility to ensure the deer herd is managed properly and to provide deer hunters the flexibility to establish their own deer hunting traditions.In other words, the department is responsible for adapting to changing social and technological changes, but the agency should neither be the drivers of these changes nor the resistance to them.
WELL worth the read Folks! Puts to bed a hell of a lot of the assumptions out there!
Indeed, I would WELCOME such a study right here in BC!!
Cheers!!
Nog
https://dnr.wi.gov/About/NRB/2019/October/00%20Tuesday%202019-10-3A%20Wisconsin%20Crossbow%20Report%20Final.pdf
"The preponderance of the evidence from these multiple lines of inquiry suggests that all-inclusive crossbow use is not currently a biological concern for deer herd management or a pressing
social issue for most hunters.
Another area of interest is the distance at which deer can be harvested by crossbows compared with compound bows. On the motivations survey, the maximum range at which hunters reported they would take a shot at a deer differed between guns and stringed weapons; but no significant difference was found in the reported maximum ranges for crossbow and compound bow users.
Finally, we surveyed state agencies in 19 states about the establishment of crossbows as a legal weapon in their state, who their crossbow users were, and any effects on the state’s deer herd the addition of crossbows may have had. Most states that allow crossbow use allow it statewide during the entire archery season. States that did not allow crossbow use for all bow hunters, restricted their use because of concerns for perceived crowding, over-harvest (primarily of mule deer), appropriate weapon classification, and/or opposition by archery organizations. No state interviewed that allowed crossbow use has shortened its season or restricted crossbow use from the original law.
The addition of crossbows in these states showed little impact on established seasons/traditions or hunters’ willingness to bag deer,and crossbows did not cause any change in total deer harvest or any measurable biological impact on the state’s deer herd.
As society changes and as the use of technology continues to evolve, it is the department’s responsibility to ensure the deer herd is managed properly and to provide deer hunters the flexibility to establish their own deer hunting traditions.In other words, the department is responsible for adapting to changing social and technological changes, but the agency should neither be the drivers of these changes nor the resistance to them.
WELL worth the read Folks! Puts to bed a hell of a lot of the assumptions out there!
Indeed, I would WELCOME such a study right here in BC!!
Cheers!!
Nog
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
The response from the BCWF is actually a quite underwhelming:
This, from the Fed's home page, doesn't look much like a rebuttal of the crossbow proposal to me. In fact, it appears somewhat defensive of their actions which leads me to believe they voted in favor of this BS:
"Regulation Proposal: “Prohibit the use of scopes on bows during bow-only seasons”
We have been hearing from members concerned with one of the proposals in the hunting/trapping regulation engagement process regarding the elimination of scopes on bows during bow-only seasons.
The proposal that was discussed at the Provincial Hunting and Trapping Advisory Team’s subcommittee on “hunting methods” was to “regulate electronic, magnifying, or telescopic sights on short range weapons (bows) during special weapon seasons.” Government has chosen to modify the intent of the proposal and to focus on crossbows in their posting on the engagement website and the accompanying rationale.
The BCWF supports the use of archery/bow-only seasons as a means of increasing hunting opportunities. The focus of the hunting methods sub-committee, when discussing this proposal, was to maintain archery-only hunting seasons that include crossbows. The committee is not a decision-making body and only provides advice to government regarding hunting methods.
Government is in the process of reviewing and updating the hunter harvest questionnaire and the BCWF has asked for the government to collect more data on hunting methods, whether it be vertical bows, crossbows or rifles.
The scopes regulation proposal is posted, and input from the public will ultimately influence the outcome.
Here is the link to the proposed regulations regarding crossbows apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/scopes-bows-during-bow-only-seasons
Remember, you will need your BCeID number to comment."
bcwf.bc.ca/hunting-and-trapping-regulations-engagement-open/
................................................
I sat on this a few days while I waited for the Fed to get back to me on the matter. After having reached out to the Fed (again) I sadly got nothing but crickets in return. From the above, and their lack of response (weeks) it appears that they are fine with this, and so have lost any chance of my support at this time whatsoever.
The government continues it's shenanigans on all proposals. you can vote and comment, but you cannot see, nor alter your own comment, nor anyone else's. Many believe this is being done so they can say the majority of the public sided in favor of their suggestions, when in fact that may well not be the case. Getting tired of all the ass-covering going on here...
Regards - Matt
This, from the Fed's home page, doesn't look much like a rebuttal of the crossbow proposal to me. In fact, it appears somewhat defensive of their actions which leads me to believe they voted in favor of this BS:
"Regulation Proposal: “Prohibit the use of scopes on bows during bow-only seasons”
We have been hearing from members concerned with one of the proposals in the hunting/trapping regulation engagement process regarding the elimination of scopes on bows during bow-only seasons.
The proposal that was discussed at the Provincial Hunting and Trapping Advisory Team’s subcommittee on “hunting methods” was to “regulate electronic, magnifying, or telescopic sights on short range weapons (bows) during special weapon seasons.” Government has chosen to modify the intent of the proposal and to focus on crossbows in their posting on the engagement website and the accompanying rationale.
The BCWF supports the use of archery/bow-only seasons as a means of increasing hunting opportunities. The focus of the hunting methods sub-committee, when discussing this proposal, was to maintain archery-only hunting seasons that include crossbows. The committee is not a decision-making body and only provides advice to government regarding hunting methods.
Government is in the process of reviewing and updating the hunter harvest questionnaire and the BCWF has asked for the government to collect more data on hunting methods, whether it be vertical bows, crossbows or rifles.
The scopes regulation proposal is posted, and input from the public will ultimately influence the outcome.
Here is the link to the proposed regulations regarding crossbows apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/scopes-bows-during-bow-only-seasons
Remember, you will need your BCeID number to comment."
bcwf.bc.ca/hunting-and-trapping-regulations-engagement-open/
................................................
I sat on this a few days while I waited for the Fed to get back to me on the matter. After having reached out to the Fed (again) I sadly got nothing but crickets in return. From the above, and their lack of response (weeks) it appears that they are fine with this, and so have lost any chance of my support at this time whatsoever.
The government continues it's shenanigans on all proposals. you can vote and comment, but you cannot see, nor alter your own comment, nor anyone else's. Many believe this is being done so they can say the majority of the public sided in favor of their suggestions, when in fact that may well not be the case. Getting tired of all the ass-covering going on here...
Regards - Matt
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Tools of harvest is the last sacred cow of gun control in Canada. Government should back the f@#$ off. Especially an accessory that can only assist the hunter in making a clean kill. End of the day, a filled tag is just another filled tag.
