*cheque's
BCL 102 Complaints/Whining Thread
- Thread starter DiabeticKripple
- Start date
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*cheque's
Between the BCL102, M+M M10x and the T81 drama around here lately (sure I'missing others) ... I gotta tell ya, been many proud moments to be a member of the Canadian shooting community.
WTF are these companies doing ? This is starting to verge on dealing with Government !
WTF are these companies doing ? This is starting to verge on dealing with Government !
Not sure if this constitutes a complaint, but this seems the best spot to ask the question.
Are the major components of the 102 (upper, lower, HG) anodized prior to cerakoting?
The 102 is made from 6061 aluminum which is softer (read easier to machine) than colt uppers and lowers which are 7075 Aluminum, a harder alloy.
Additionally, Colt and other major manufacturers hard anodize to provide a corrosion and wear resistant surface.
So is the 102 anodized or merely straight 6061 that is then Cerakoted? Not knocking Cerakoting, but it is merely a surface finish that does not bond to the aluminum substrate, once scraped off, the soft 6061 aluminum underneath would be subject to wear unless anodized. Long term wear may be an issue if not anodized.
Are other BCL/NEA uppers/lowers anodized? All my RRA, Spike's and Colt's are anodized.
Any info appreciated.
Are the major components of the 102 (upper, lower, HG) anodized prior to cerakoting?
The 102 is made from 6061 aluminum which is softer (read easier to machine) than colt uppers and lowers which are 7075 Aluminum, a harder alloy.
Additionally, Colt and other major manufacturers hard anodize to provide a corrosion and wear resistant surface.
So is the 102 anodized or merely straight 6061 that is then Cerakoted? Not knocking Cerakoting, but it is merely a surface finish that does not bond to the aluminum substrate, once scraped off, the soft 6061 aluminum underneath would be subject to wear unless anodized. Long term wear may be an issue if not anodized.
Are other BCL/NEA uppers/lowers anodized? All my RRA, Spike's and Colt's are anodized.
Any info appreciated.
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Wait until the SLR pre orders start coming.
I can see it now. You order the upper/lower set and then all the happy folks start putting all their own parts on.
Lots can go wrong there also.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Brianma65, I am sorry to hear that my process which is outlined isn't to you liking. the tools, methods and process are identical to how I approach setting up any precision rifle. The brass, dies are actually stuff I use in my FTR competition rigs. The bullets, powder and primers are well regarded with a long history of working in semi auto platforms. I shot under the best conditions including wind and light... choosing to shoot at 100yds vs 250yds as the weather was rainy. 100yds would have been considered easier don't you think.
The same bipod and rests that help me win at 1000yds were used to support all of these NR AR's... Supports and rests that routinely let me shoot 1/3 MOA or better at 250yds with my FTR rifles.
Throughout this test, I have explained the how and why and then going to greater lengths to shoot the MH in various formats to find the best method of operation. All that mag loading stuff was to help the MH avoid any operational pitfalls. It can be argued that I went out of my way to stack the deck in the MH's favor!
Working up loads in 0.1gr steps held to the kernel of powder (all charges weighed on an FX120i scale) is far higher precision then the vast majority of reloaders. When I found the most promising load, I returned for several range trips to test and retest to form an average of how it would perform. You can see that later testing was all 5rds groups with 2 or more groups typically on the same target. I have no need nor interest to "game" my results.
For better or worst, the bullets landed where they did.
I have tested 150gr, 168gr and 175gr bullets in the MH. Yes, the 175gr was "only" GMM ammo but I think many will accept it as pretty decent stuff. Is there some magic combo that might bring that MH into the sub MOA AVERAGE? Don't know but the results I got lead me to believe, for this particular MH, no.
If you do not like nor trust my results, I hope that you will perform your own tests. Take your rifle, work up the best load, and do your own accuracy testing. Don't tell anyone... just play and enjoy the satisfaction of enjoying a very nicely made rifle and a sport some still enjoy.
Grab a target at whatever distance you want and shoot 3 to 5 groups of how many rds per group that works best for you... all on 1 piece of paper. The rifle will do what the rifle will do. Use every means to give the best result... measure the groups and the result will be what it is. The AR challenge is a great demo for what any rifle will average.
WRT to my background in AR's. If memory serves, I shot the smallest average for the 2016 CGN AR challenge and that was 5X5rds on the same piece of paper... that was backed up with another 4X5rds on another target. Unfortunately, 1 shot took the 5th group outside the accuracy goal so for 49 shots on 2 targets, my AR AVERAGED a level of accuracy that would be considered .... 'decent'.
A HERO group isn't the benchmark for any rifle... the average is (I did shot some really nice sub MOA groups with the MH). If your MH can average sub MOA, that is truly a wonderful rifle and congrats. If you want to show us how it performs, that would be great but not necessary. In competition, every shot is scored so every shot count. I don't do best out of... and I don't make excuses.... the target and my competition don't care.
YMMV
Jerry
Sorry Jerry, I didn't mean to question your skills,as I'm sure ,you know your stuff.
I guess I mis understood the testing being done.
I thought you were going to find what the guns like, then work up a load.
I've found,when doing my own testing, that some guns prefer certain bullets.
I guess your time restrictions,were a factor.
I would have liked to seen,what each gun is truly capable of,that's all.
Anyway ,sorry if I offended you.
Brian
I guess I mis understood the testing being done.
I thought you were going to find what the guns like, then work up a load.
I've found,when doing my own testing, that some guns prefer certain bullets.
I guess your time restrictions,were a factor.
I would have liked to seen,what each gun is truly capable of,that's all.
Anyway ,sorry if I offended you.
Brian
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Brian, you most certainly didn't offend me nor was I in anyway "angry" at you. Gun guys, debating about gun results... it is supposed to be fun.
As I discussed early in the test, the goal was to use commonly available stuff and get an indication of what these rifles would do. The hrn 150gr FMJBT is a MOA type bullet, the Sierra 168gr Mk a 1/2 Min or better bullet, the 175gr GMM ammo a sub MOA ammo. All very standard, well documented, well understood stuff.
My reloading and shooting tried to exploit my background to ensure that the testing was done as consistently and repeatably as possible. Doing all that was possible to show what the rifle could do under ideal conditions. Using 50X scopes so that aiming error couldn't be questioned and so forth.
Address all possible variables and simply get rid of them .. and what is left is how the rifle can perform.
The 168gr mk was chosen cause it has proven over the last 50yrs to work very well in semi auto rifles especially over H4895. It is the goto load for many when testing a new rifle. All loads fall within print data so as not to overload or overpressure the rifles.... and all data was clearly documented. This combo DID shoot some very tight groups... and some really wide groups.
Remember that this 168gr load shot a 5/8" group at 100yds... and a 2 1/2" group. I have no problem with any combo varying 10% from group to group, day to day. Hey we are human, and we are a source of error. My aiming error at 100yds is at worst a couple of mm's... I am not pulling a shot across a target.
The biggest take away from this is consistency... when doing multiple groups, I used the load that indicated the best accuracy and made the ammo to be as exact as possible. Levels far exceeding the vast majority of reloaders. I am loading with the same level of precision as I do when shooting FTR out to 1000yds.
so what did the results show me, and you can review again yourself, this MH offered a range of grouping. Some good, some not so good BUT with the same loads under ideal shooting conditions. THIS is how you determine the average accuracy of any firearm... I am not being selective on groups, I am not being selective on anything. It is what it is and I have reported as such.
The final shooting of the GMM 175gr ammo was used as a control. I am not saying that every rifle will shoot this ammo well BUT we know that it is well manufactured so the results should be consistent. We also have the history to see that in most situations, this ammo produces MOA or better results in many bolt rifles. Again, it is a standard that many consider fair.
The results from the GMM ammo mimiced my reloads under same day shooting.
Before posting, I even went further to retest the functioning of my scope just to make sure it hadn't broken... on my FTR rig, it produced the same accuracy with no shifting or other maladies.
My results are what they are... and I feel that I have put alot of effort to let the MH perform well. I was actually waiting for some to critique why I was going easy on the MH. Remember I tested the MH at 100yds... the first BCL at 250yds. That is a huge advantage to the MH.
Maybe this MH is not representative of all MH's and others shoot far more consistently and accurately. I will have another here shortly and can compare against this one.
If you wish to show us how your MH shoots and the loads that have worked best for you, I am sure other MH owners would love the share. Yes, I have seen and received info from other MH shooters with very nice results. But all show 1 fabulous group. I have no idea on the average of their rifles nor is it my place to intrude. They are very happy and that is all that matters.
When you do a project on accuracy.... sometimes the results are not to everyone's liking. I am not interested in the BEST group... I am interested in the AVERAGE.
It is what it is....
Jerry
As I discussed early in the test, the goal was to use commonly available stuff and get an indication of what these rifles would do. The hrn 150gr FMJBT is a MOA type bullet, the Sierra 168gr Mk a 1/2 Min or better bullet, the 175gr GMM ammo a sub MOA ammo. All very standard, well documented, well understood stuff.
My reloading and shooting tried to exploit my background to ensure that the testing was done as consistently and repeatably as possible. Doing all that was possible to show what the rifle could do under ideal conditions. Using 50X scopes so that aiming error couldn't be questioned and so forth.
Address all possible variables and simply get rid of them .. and what is left is how the rifle can perform.
The 168gr mk was chosen cause it has proven over the last 50yrs to work very well in semi auto rifles especially over H4895. It is the goto load for many when testing a new rifle. All loads fall within print data so as not to overload or overpressure the rifles.... and all data was clearly documented. This combo DID shoot some very tight groups... and some really wide groups.
Remember that this 168gr load shot a 5/8" group at 100yds... and a 2 1/2" group. I have no problem with any combo varying 10% from group to group, day to day. Hey we are human, and we are a source of error. My aiming error at 100yds is at worst a couple of mm's... I am not pulling a shot across a target.
The biggest take away from this is consistency... when doing multiple groups, I used the load that indicated the best accuracy and made the ammo to be as exact as possible. Levels far exceeding the vast majority of reloaders. I am loading with the same level of precision as I do when shooting FTR out to 1000yds.
so what did the results show me, and you can review again yourself, this MH offered a range of grouping. Some good, some not so good BUT with the same loads under ideal shooting conditions. THIS is how you determine the average accuracy of any firearm... I am not being selective on groups, I am not being selective on anything. It is what it is and I have reported as such.
The final shooting of the GMM 175gr ammo was used as a control. I am not saying that every rifle will shoot this ammo well BUT we know that it is well manufactured so the results should be consistent. We also have the history to see that in most situations, this ammo produces MOA or better results in many bolt rifles. Again, it is a standard that many consider fair.
The results from the GMM ammo mimiced my reloads under same day shooting.
Before posting, I even went further to retest the functioning of my scope just to make sure it hadn't broken... on my FTR rig, it produced the same accuracy with no shifting or other maladies.
My results are what they are... and I feel that I have put alot of effort to let the MH perform well. I was actually waiting for some to critique why I was going easy on the MH. Remember I tested the MH at 100yds... the first BCL at 250yds. That is a huge advantage to the MH.
Maybe this MH is not representative of all MH's and others shoot far more consistently and accurately. I will have another here shortly and can compare against this one.
If you wish to show us how your MH shoots and the loads that have worked best for you, I am sure other MH owners would love the share. Yes, I have seen and received info from other MH shooters with very nice results. But all show 1 fabulous group. I have no idea on the average of their rifles nor is it my place to intrude. They are very happy and that is all that matters.
When you do a project on accuracy.... sometimes the results are not to everyone's liking. I am not interested in the BEST group... I am interested in the AVERAGE.
It is what it is....
Jerry
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Huh? If they are shipping completed rifles out to sfrc on Monday I would expect they will be in some people’s hands by the end of next week.
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I don’t know how Ryan keeps his cool these days...so many douche-bags.
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Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Come on really THIS is the WHINING THREAD
Your whining is weak. I must concede, however, your pot-stirring is exemplary!
Best edit comment I have ever read hahaha.
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