British Commonwealth troops envious of U.S. M1 rifle

The question is easy to answer.
If it were YOU in a war and regardless of what the bad guys had, what would you choose? A bolt action rifle or a semi-auto rifle? Despite the obvious shortcoming of not being able to top-up the rifle, there were no other disadvantages to the Garand.

I owned them both... sold the No. 4, still own my Cornbinder (IHC, 1954) Garand. Wonderfully accurate and reliable. (No, never used either in "combat conditions"!) ;)

BTW I am sure that at least some folks reading this thread knows the birthplace of John C Garand... even though his family moved when he was 8 years old, he was born in St. Remi, QC, about 100 miles NE of Ottawa, ON.
 
freddo said:
The question is easy to answer.
If it were YOU in a war and regardless of what the bad guys had, what would you choose? A bolt action rifle or a semi-auto rifle? Despite the obvious shortcoming of not being able to top-up the rifle, there were no other disadvantages to the Garand.

I owned them both... sold the No. 4, still own my Cornbinder (IHC, 1954) Garand. Wonderfully accurate and reliable. (No, never used either in "combat conditions"!) ;)

BTW I am sure that at least some folks reading this thread knows the birthplace of John C Garand... even though his family moved when he was 8 years old, he was born in St. Remi, QC, about 100 miles NE of Ottawa, ON.
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I would pick Enfield, I heard a few stories of garands not working in a firefight, Enfield less parts to go wrong, Can match the rounds down range the "garand" could put out. Also as someone said less prone to freezing. Rangers still use them today in the frigged cold of the arctic.

I rather put down effictive accurate fire, then shoot as fast as possable to keep the heads down.
 
In the dark, on a mountain, against en with burp guns and SKSs, getting overrun, Garand thanks, and I'd make sure it worked.

Both of them laying next to me and a long range target? Maybe an Enfield.
Maybe an M1.

As to the question at hand, our Korea vet has spoken, good enough for me.

Regards,

DT
 
I was NOT in either conflict since I was not born until 1964 but I can share a couple storries. The first was a conversation I had with a Canadian Army Vet who had served in combat in Italy. He LOVED the M1 Garand and aquired two at the wars end.....The second conversation I had was with a PPCLI vet of Korea c/w unit citation.....he aquired an M-1 Carbine.....he talked about chinese troops coming like hundreds of ants and feeling very underarmed with a bolt action 10-shot rifle......the carbine was his choice after that....

Myself I think the Lee Enfield is a fine rifle. I spoke with one ex-soldier who felt it was a better rifle than the FN when the FNs were first issued......once he got used to the FN he felt it was indeed superior.....
 
Gimmie a Garand. I LOOOOOVE enfields, but in a combat situ I would way rather have a semi, those quick follow up shots would make a world of difference. The U.S. army determined that each garand equipped squad had something like 8 times the firepower of a german one, that being the logic behind thier choice. Even I, a chairborne commando can clearly see that...

And no more crap about enfields being able to put down 40 rounds a minute. The world record was 37 rounds in a minute, and it was a hardcore instructor. I bet the average rifleman was signifigantly below that.
 
NB.nagantsniper said:
in ww2 the ssf /devils brigade used some canadian and some us gear /wpns......johnson lite mgs, m-1 garands i think? fer example this help?
as to mausers in korea, some chinese /comunist troops used mausers left over from ww2 and there civil war with the chang kia shek regime / from national chines troops.............some were german make others were chinese made mauser copies of dubious quality/safety. not large numbers but were used.
from d.a.
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I believe they all used U.S. kit as standard.

Sorry guys, A night time hoard of Chinese attacking your defensive position? You can have all the Enfields and Garands, I'd take the .50 pit.
 
The Garand is one fine battle rifle with one serious draw back. When the 8 round clip ejects out with that distinctive 'clank' sound, all your enemies within hearing distance would instantly know that you are in a very vulnerable position with an empty rifle in your hand. I wonder how many GIs got into trouble because of this design flaw.
 
sf said:
The Garand is one fine battle rifle with one serious draw back. When the 8 round clip ejects out with that distinctive 'clank' sound, all your enemies within hearing distance would instantly know that you are in a very vulnerable position with an empty rifle in your hand. I wonder how many GIs got into trouble because of this design flaw.
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so true because after firing 8 .30-06 rounds at the bad guys..they are going to hear that clank:rolleyes: plus just think of the horror when a whole platoon of garand equiped guys are shooting at the sametime..wow HUGE clunk is going to make the enemy happy because they know they are empty:p
 
gunplumberr said:
so true because after firing 8 .30-06 rounds at the bad guys..they are going to hear that clank:rolleyes: plus just think of the horror when a whole platoon of garand equiped guys are shooting at the sametime..wow HUGE clunk is going to make the enemy happy because they know they are empty:p
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Good to hear that your buddies are always around to watch your back in the battlefield. You must be either a very popular or lucky guy in your platoon.
 
sf said:
Good to hear that your buddies are always around to watch your back in the battlefield. You must be either a very popular or lucky guy in your platoon.
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not lucky I just listen for the sound of the mag catch on the PPSH 41 drums:p because I know I drop mine all the time when I try to speed load in my basement(EMPTY MAGS) don't want the safety nazi's all over me ..since we can't shoot them anymore

don't worry i'm just ribbing ya....glad to see some ppl still have a funny bone on here...or at least I hope

AND I'll take an M1 garand if I was back in Korea in 53
 
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It always makes me laugh when somebody brings up the enemy hears the ping comment, if they were not returning fire and you were fighting by yourself they might hear it. Even then you can reload in a couple of seconds so unless they are almost sitting beside you waiting for your rifle to go ping it wouldn't be a concern. When I was in the Army we always watched out for our buddies at all times, even off duty. 011, if you ain't Armoured, you ain't thick.;)
 
My No.4 Mk 1 had an ordinary 2 groove bbl. The bore was in good shape but it had only "acceptable" combat accuracy, IMHO.

My Cornbinder Garand, OTOH, is AMAZINGLY accurate. Could out-shoot the Enfield 3 ways to Sunday.

BOTH rifles are as-issued. No add-ons, no tunes ups, bone stock.

There's absolutely no comparision. Garand wins, hands down.
 
The Garand is one fine battle rifle with one serious draw back. When the 8 round clip ejects out with that distinctive 'clank' sound, all your enemies within hearing distance would instantly know that you are in a very vulnerable position with an empty rifle in your hand. I wonder how many GIs got into trouble because of this design flaw
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Is this like trying to hear a pin drop on the battle field.
I once saw a demo of a Garand Vs. a mauser 98K,the guy with the garand was on his 2nd clip before the other guy fininsh his first mag.[and this was at a highschool in Toledo ohio back in 76']
If properly motivated by a horde or 2 [3 hordes to a platoon,5,000 men to a horde]of screaming, Oh, whats the korean word for it?you know the bad guys.You would be able to reload quickly too.
 
You chaps seem to be forgetting that we had BREN GUNS in Korea as well. In addition, in a situation where ammo is in short supply you do not want your troops going full rock and roll on the enemy. You want every round to represent a kill. Consequently to this suppresion fire is suppresion fire - in a defensive or offensive situation but regardless of this you can achieve both with the correct number of soldiers, a good NCO in charge and a lee enfield in trained hands.

Those of you whom are opposed to the lee enfield evidently do not understand its potential as far as rapid fire is concerned (under field conditions). Sure its initially slower than the M1 Garand (but not by much). How long does it take to reload an enblock clip compatred to a 5 round stripper clip? Probably, round for round about the same.

Above all of this what I know this this. When every round counts in a far distant land, where resupply is tentative and when your life depends on reliability you want a No4Mk1* Lee Enfield.

By far the Lee Enfield is the KING of the bolt action battle rifles and KING for steady reliability under the worst field conditions. I carry a No4Mk1* with the CDN Rangers. My rifle has been covered in mud, water, covered in hemlock needles and it still fires like a trooper reliably. If I have to I can use a rock to beat the bolt down and it will still fire. I've carried an "As New" Danish M1 Garand (winchester) in the bush for bear defense (I work for the BC Forest Service) they are heavy, cumbersome difficult to wield and in my opinion unreliable because of the enblock clip adaptation. Its a big hole where too much #### can get in between your enblock clip and the receiver.

I keep the No4Mk1* and sell the M1 Garand everythime!
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Interesting comments Riflechair, a great example of Canadian improvisation.
Cudos to you and your personal choice, frankly a heavy bullet in a Garand is not good for its health, or yours on dangerous game, unless you use a premium lighter bullet for greater depth of penetration.
No offence intended, but my old copies of the 'Patrician" showing Korea in 1950-53 many many Canadian troops are shown with M1 and M2 carbines. Apparently Canadian troops often traded whiskey to the US troops to aquire greater firepower. And there is a story of a British general touring "Vandoo" infantry lines in Korea,and he could not believe the high number of machine guns they had dug in on the line. Some Canadian Army Koraen War Veterans cursed the government of the time for sending them to fight North Korean and Chinese troops, who had a tremendous amount of fully automatic weapons and they, with a bolt action rifle as standard issue, God even the Greek and Turkish UN troops were given Garands and M1 carbines to fight with in that theatre by the US government! A book on the Canadian campagn "Blood on the Hills" told by an RCR Major is a very good read by the way.
The Lee Enfield was great for its time,
but the next logical step in battlefild firepower was the John Cantius Garand design.
As well, the Special Service Force used American weapons during WW2, during the Cold War RCAF bases in Europe,and RCAF radar installation troops were issued M1 Garands, obviously so the troops had greater firepower in hand,until FNs were adopted by Canadian Armed Forces personnel. One RCAF Vet told me they prefered the Garand to the FNC1, they said it kicked less and was slightly more accurate, interesting comment........
I think you can tell what my personal choice would be.........between the two designs,for combat that is......
 
Brutus said:
One RCAF Vet told me they prefered the Garand to the FNC1, they said it kicked less and was slightly more accurate, interesting comment........
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Now that is an interesting comment... I used the C1A1 back in my militia days and a lot of "weight challenged" folks had problems with the kick (some even went so far as to use a field dressing inbetween their shoulder and the butt of the rifle). To be sure, the felt recoil on the Garand is LESS than that of a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk 1. To me, anyway. I do have a L1A1 but of course am "not permitted" to fire it presently, so can't do any impromptu field tests to compare it to my Garand... :mad:

I think you can tell what my personal choice would be.........between the two designs,for combat that is......
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No contest.

m1talk1.jpg
 
As a battle rifle under combat conditions with all the ammo a guy wants I say the M1 Garand is better
As a reliable bolt action rifle the lee enfield wins hands down
 
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