It would have to be in Alaska because there's no reason to be armed flying anywhere near the southern border. The rules require that you have a gun when flying in Alaska. In Canada north of 60, you must carry an ax.
Bush Pilot Revolver ?
- Thread starter trekstor
- Start date
tactical870
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Buckhorn, Ontario
first of, you have landed because of an emergence, second, you do have an atc.. third, your a bush pilot... we should stop searching for reasons to indict someone... i havent flown in 15 years, nor did i train to fly in the bush, but i did log flight plans when i flew, a quick review of mine would let the authorities realize that im telling the truth, my gun would remain in my possesion, they probably would just say tell me to pack it up in my luggage until i can be on my way again
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Whichever gun you end up choosing, it should be small enough that is does not interfere with your daily duties, powerful enough to get the job done, and controllable enough to allow for fast target reacquisition, and follow-up shots.
For this reason I like SAs, particularly the old model Ruger Vaquero. These guns have no crane to spring as is the case of DA revolvers, and the grooved receiver is as tough a rear sight as is available. Mine shoots pretty much to point of aim. The SA grip frame seems to fit my hand better than an N frame S&W.
I had the rear sight of a SBH fail, it fell off from recoil actually, and I replaced it with a Rough Country sight from Bowen Classic Arms. This rear sight is the toughest adjustable revolver sight made, the windage is adjusted by a pair of opposing screws rather than a single spring loaded screw. I lock-tited mine down to the lowest elevation where it is the strongest, and trimmed the front sight until it was regulated to my 325 gr load.
Appropriate loads IMHO are those that fire the heaviest, bluntest bullet that is available in that caliber that can manage 1200 fps. This results in loads that penetrate deeply, and produce a good wound volume with controllable recoil.
If I was looking at a new gun today I would give the Freedom Arms .500 Wyoming Express in a 4.5" barrel fixed sight version some consideration. If I was going to stick to Ruger, I would probably choose a .45 Colt or a .44 magnum in a Blackhawk with a short barrel if I couldn't find an old model Vaquero.
A retired helicopter pilot friend who did a great deal of polar bear work used a shoulder holster exclusively and carried either his M-29 or a Dan Wesson .44. I have difficulty reaching the butt of the gun when worn in a shoulder holster, so I favor a pancake style belt holster that I can wear strong side or cross draw. A belt holster though might be less than ideal for someone who spends much of his day in a seated position.
I think a holster for wilderness carry should cover the trigger guard, and have an open muzzle. If you draw the gun in a stressful situation, the covered trigger guard keeps willow branches away from your trigger, but also requires you to have your finger off the trigger until the muzzle clears the holster and is then presumably not pointed at your body. The holster should have an open muzzle to facilitate cleaning debris that will inevitably end up in there.
For this reason I like SAs, particularly the old model Ruger Vaquero. These guns have no crane to spring as is the case of DA revolvers, and the grooved receiver is as tough a rear sight as is available. Mine shoots pretty much to point of aim. The SA grip frame seems to fit my hand better than an N frame S&W.
I had the rear sight of a SBH fail, it fell off from recoil actually, and I replaced it with a Rough Country sight from Bowen Classic Arms. This rear sight is the toughest adjustable revolver sight made, the windage is adjusted by a pair of opposing screws rather than a single spring loaded screw. I lock-tited mine down to the lowest elevation where it is the strongest, and trimmed the front sight until it was regulated to my 325 gr load.
Appropriate loads IMHO are those that fire the heaviest, bluntest bullet that is available in that caliber that can manage 1200 fps. This results in loads that penetrate deeply, and produce a good wound volume with controllable recoil.
If I was looking at a new gun today I would give the Freedom Arms .500 Wyoming Express in a 4.5" barrel fixed sight version some consideration. If I was going to stick to Ruger, I would probably choose a .45 Colt or a .44 magnum in a Blackhawk with a short barrel if I couldn't find an old model Vaquero.
A retired helicopter pilot friend who did a great deal of polar bear work used a shoulder holster exclusively and carried either his M-29 or a Dan Wesson .44. I have difficulty reaching the butt of the gun when worn in a shoulder holster, so I favor a pancake style belt holster that I can wear strong side or cross draw. A belt holster though might be less than ideal for someone who spends much of his day in a seated position.
I think a holster for wilderness carry should cover the trigger guard, and have an open muzzle. If you draw the gun in a stressful situation, the covered trigger guard keeps willow branches away from your trigger, but also requires you to have your finger off the trigger until the muzzle clears the holster and is then presumably not pointed at your body. The holster should have an open muzzle to facilitate cleaning debris that will inevitably end up in there.
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Starsky and Hutch called; they want their car back. "my piece", holy cow!!! Keep calling it a "piece" and you won't have it for very much longer.
To the original poster, get yourself a mares leg. I think Rossi are making a version called a ranch rifle.
Before I moved to the SRH's I went thru the single action revolver stage I had my two 5.5" barreled s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt on my ATC lots of power with loads from 240gr XTP's to 345gr WFNGC's.
300gr XTP's with H110 powder gave me @ 100 yards 6 shot groups that would hit an 8"X10" target both hit of point of aim @ 25 yards...
To many black bear encounters when I was out working solo left me feeling "what do I do if I need more than six rounds" years before I had read a story in a magazine of a animal control officer in the States that carried basically the same revolver/loads and in the story there were several encounters where he needed more than 6 shots he was lucky to have a backup because he had no time to reload.
So now I have the laser gripped 4.25" double action SRH don't get me wrong I am not dissing the single actions becasue I would carry a single action again in a heart beat...
How I carried them didn't have holsters that covered the trigger guard wish I did though but I used what I had...
300gr XTP's with H110 powder gave me @ 100 yards 6 shot groups that would hit an 8"X10" target both hit of point of aim @ 25 yards...
To many black bear encounters when I was out working solo left me feeling "what do I do if I need more than six rounds" years before I had read a story in a magazine of a animal control officer in the States that carried basically the same revolver/loads and in the story there were several encounters where he needed more than 6 shots he was lucky to have a backup because he had no time to reload.
So now I have the laser gripped 4.25" double action SRH don't get me wrong I am not dissing the single actions becasue I would carry a single action again in a heart beat...
How I carried them didn't have holsters that covered the trigger guard wish I did though but I used what I had...
Ive shot the 460, the cartridges wouldnt come out when i tryed to eject them, guess the gun got too hot, had to let it cool down to get them out. Ive never had the problem with my 44, no matter how much i shot.
I used to survey wellsites out of helicopters, so I know the routine. You need a shoulder holster, because of those tiny little seats. I used to carry a S&W 629, 6", then switched to a 10mm Colt Auto. I think a Glock 20 would be your best bet. It's light weight, and you can carry your ammo in magazines. I wouldn't count grizzly bears as my number one hazard, so being weighted down by a hand cannon is not necessary.
One pilot I knew carried a Ruger 22, and it made him feel a lot better. That's the real reason for carrying a weapon, to feel more confident. Fear causes you to make bad decisions. You could be headed down a seismic line that will take you straight to a main road, but see a bear, and have to take a detour that gets you completely lost. If you weren't afraid, you'd realize the bear you see isn't the one you need to worry about. I've had this happen on one of those days I decided to leave my gun in the truck.
One pilot I knew carried a Ruger 22, and it made him feel a lot better. That's the real reason for carrying a weapon, to feel more confident. Fear causes you to make bad decisions. You could be headed down a seismic line that will take you straight to a main road, but see a bear, and have to take a detour that gets you completely lost. If you weren't afraid, you'd realize the bear you see isn't the one you need to worry about. I've had this happen on one of those days I decided to leave my gun in the truck.
When i flew i liked my .45 single action colt with heavy handloads. If I was still flying now I would probably carry a really good .22 pistol instead as starving is more likely than getting attacked if your ELT doesnt work & they take weeks to find you. But I would be torn as I dont like bears if Im not well armed.
I have had a wilderness ATC of some kind off and on since about 1987. The rules for what you can carry and HOW you carry have changed significantly over the years.
My dad has had an wilderness ATC for way longer than me. The majority of our work has been in and around helicopters.
Some considerations...
Wilderness ATC's are issued for a very narrow group of occupations such as geologists, trappers and timber cruisers.
I know of no ATC that is been issued to a "pilot." As far as I know, you need to have another occupation such as geologist or one of the others before an ATC is issued. Never heard of a "scientist" getting a permit either.
Having said that...that would be based on my ATC experience in BC in Alberta. I've had permits for the Yukon as well. If there are other catergories wilderness ATC's, that would be news to me. BUT, if I recall the CFC website pretty much states the same thing. The CFO does have discretion to issue permits, so perhaps so exceptions are made from time to time.
There has been several references to carrying in an aircraft. You can't carry a loaded firearm in ANY aircraft. When I did my renewal interview this year, they made it clear that you can't wear or transport a loaded gun in an aircraft...period. Really...is there a threat of animal attack while flying around? If you are the ground, by all means chunk up.
Wilderness ATC's also PROHIBIT concealed carry.
The 9mm (as referenced in an earlier post) is not only a piss poor cartridge for wilderness carry, it is just plain stupid. Your three or whatever well placed shots will be meaningless if you end up dead. Sure, the predatory animal may die..eventually, but what good will that do you if you are maimed or killed?
Grizzlies, and other large predatory mammals need to be hammered, and right now.
Handguns are carried in the wilderness as primary weapons for occupations where access or application of a long gun isn't possible. You need to carry something that will kill and kill quickly. The .454 Casull or bigger isn't for everyone...if you can't reliably empty that gun and make your hits count, them you need something smaller that will do the job.
The .357 is the min. allowed in BC and Alberta. I consider it my "winter" gun when most bears are in hibernation and the big cats are my primary concern. For the rest of the time I currently use a .41 magnum.
I have had and carried several different .44 magnums and consider it one of the best overall bush cartridges for wilderness carry. I suggest most folks start there and see where it goes.
My dad has had an wilderness ATC for way longer than me. The majority of our work has been in and around helicopters.
Some considerations...
Wilderness ATC's are issued for a very narrow group of occupations such as geologists, trappers and timber cruisers.
I know of no ATC that is been issued to a "pilot." As far as I know, you need to have another occupation such as geologist or one of the others before an ATC is issued. Never heard of a "scientist" getting a permit either.
Having said that...that would be based on my ATC experience in BC in Alberta. I've had permits for the Yukon as well. If there are other catergories wilderness ATC's, that would be news to me. BUT, if I recall the CFC website pretty much states the same thing. The CFO does have discretion to issue permits, so perhaps so exceptions are made from time to time.
There has been several references to carrying in an aircraft. You can't carry a loaded firearm in ANY aircraft. When I did my renewal interview this year, they made it clear that you can't wear or transport a loaded gun in an aircraft...period. Really...is there a threat of animal attack while flying around? If you are the ground, by all means chunk up.
Wilderness ATC's also PROHIBIT concealed carry.
The 9mm (as referenced in an earlier post) is not only a piss poor cartridge for wilderness carry, it is just plain stupid. Your three or whatever well placed shots will be meaningless if you end up dead. Sure, the predatory animal may die..eventually, but what good will that do you if you are maimed or killed?
Grizzlies, and other large predatory mammals need to be hammered, and right now.
Handguns are carried in the wilderness as primary weapons for occupations where access or application of a long gun isn't possible. You need to carry something that will kill and kill quickly. The .454 Casull or bigger isn't for everyone...if you can't reliably empty that gun and make your hits count, them you need something smaller that will do the job.
The .357 is the min. allowed in BC and Alberta. I consider it my "winter" gun when most bears are in hibernation and the big cats are my primary concern. For the rest of the time I currently use a .41 magnum.
I have had and carried several different .44 magnums and consider it one of the best overall bush cartridges for wilderness carry. I suggest most folks start there and see where it goes.
My first handgun on my ATC was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm, I then purchased a Glock 20 10mm and carried it for several years it was great for when I was jumping in and out of the truck all day then I purchased a Glock 29 and the BC then Alberta CFC wouldn't let me have semi-autos on my ATC any longer so they are parked in my safe for now.
I know a fellow in Fort St John that emptied a 10 round mag at/into a grizzly they never found it...
I know a fellow in Fort St John that emptied a 10 round mag at/into a grizzly they never found it...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My pal who flew helicopters contracted to the CWS and the Manitoba DNR had an ATC due to the fact that his work with polar bears was intensive. I've had ATCs of one description or another going back to the 1970s. I personally know bear researchers who have or have had ATCs, so if you maintain the people who work directly with bears can't get them, you are mistaken. I've helped those guys out enough over the years to know that handling a drugged bear can get pretty sporty. Often cubs are flown in the helicopter rather than slung in a net, so yes, sometimes you can be at risk while in the machine even though there might be a separation between the front and the rear of the cabin. At some point in the day, you have to get them out of there.
An individual can carry what he likes, but I doubt it makes much difference which cartridge the gun is chambered for. I have both a .44 and a .357 on my ATC, the key though is knowing where to put the bullet, and having the self control to wait until you can put it there, as there is nothing hand held that can reliably stop a bear in time with a chest shot. For all intents and purposes, a 9mm has the same frontal area as a .357, so provided you have chosen a load with a heavy blunt bullet that produces sufficient penetration, one will work as well or as poorly as the other. Some may even find the additional rounds that a typical 9mm pistol carries over that of a revolver, comforting. Power is fine, but if you blow the first shot and can't get back on target for a second, due to excessive recoil, the gun has failed to protect you, no matter how big it is.
It's funny how a .44 magnum rifle never comes up for bear defense, but an inferior .44 pistol suddenly becomes the cat's azz for the same purpose. I suppose it's better than nothing at all, but I would much prefer a short 12 gauge shotgun over any of these by a large margin.
I suppose it's a compromise for being able to carry something smaller and convenient on you at all times.
I suppose it's a compromise for being able to carry something smaller and convenient on you at all times.
I'm in Ontario and our conservation officers carry the H&K USP 40. An expensive firearm for a very underfunded branch of the provincial government.
After reading all these posts I'm surprised they even recommend pistols. When I was in the process to get mine and I had to speak to the OPP officer that signs off on your ATC for Ontario. He said he rarely issues them and he said a short barrel 12 ga. shotgun does better then a big bore revolver and will even more so ensure your survival.
Even for those who posted they have semi autos for carry in other provinces... 1) I think it would piss them off more then drop them fast and 2) When a bears on top of you and you bury you semi auto into the bears body to fire off rounds as soon as you fire the first shot its not going to cycle a new round into the chamber because the bears body will most likely stop the slide from going all the way forward. You've just become dinner for a pissed off animal.
I have a 870 with 8.5" barrel and it holds 3 rounds (hollow point slugs) with a side saddle that holds 4 more. Stock to tip is 2' long. If your worried about having space in the plane and quick access put a pistol grip on it! Mine with pistol grip is 14". If your worried about changing the class from non restricted to restricted it says right on your registration cert. you have 30 days to notify the CFC of any changes or mods to your firearm (in this case the length). Even then I would keep the full stock in your survival bag with a flat head screw driver. Worst case scenario your stuck in the back country in a crash or engine problems you have a full stock to transition to in case you camped out for a while or you need to hunt food.
If your loading and unload clients gear on and off the bush plane the fact is you will be able to hear something stirring in the bush. So just because its not 'on' you doesn't mean you can't get to it in time. Plus its a devastating round entrance the size of a toonie and exit the size of a dinner plate...
Just my personal opinion.
Even for those who posted they have semi autos for carry in other provinces... 1) I think it would piss them off more then drop them fast and 2) When a bears on top of you and you bury you semi auto into the bears body to fire off rounds as soon as you fire the first shot its not going to cycle a new round into the chamber because the bears body will most likely stop the slide from going all the way forward. You've just become dinner for a pissed off animal.
I have a 870 with 8.5" barrel and it holds 3 rounds (hollow point slugs) with a side saddle that holds 4 more. Stock to tip is 2' long. If your worried about having space in the plane and quick access put a pistol grip on it! Mine with pistol grip is 14". If your worried about changing the class from non restricted to restricted it says right on your registration cert. you have 30 days to notify the CFC of any changes or mods to your firearm (in this case the length). Even then I would keep the full stock in your survival bag with a flat head screw driver. Worst case scenario your stuck in the back country in a crash or engine problems you have a full stock to transition to in case you camped out for a while or you need to hunt food.
If your loading and unload clients gear on and off the bush plane the fact is you will be able to hear something stirring in the bush. So just because its not 'on' you doesn't mean you can't get to it in time. Plus its a devastating round entrance the size of a toonie and exit the size of a dinner plate...
Just my personal opinion.
