C8 Replica build-plan for review

Diamondback Six

Diamondback Six

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Seattle, WA, USA--a neighbor to the South
Well, time for me to throw out the big question I signed up here to ask. Before I post what I'm thinking of I should note a few assumptions:
  • Genuine Diemaco parts are very hard to impossible to get here in the States and as a non-Canadian I don't have EE privileges, so I'm stuck looking for "closest US equivalent" between your export and our import restrictions. (Damn '89 Import Ban and 18 USC 922r...)
  • I'm "rollmark agnostic"--I call it Shooter Grade vs Museum Grade, my build standards are "if it handles about right, shoots as well as the real deal and looks pretty close until you take it apart or look at the rollmarks," that's a Shooter Grade Replica. As for cloners, I know people who have Form 4'ed pre-'86 genuine machineguns that say "if you don't have three pins you're just a poser"... hence my choice to use a different term so they don't have an excuse to go off like somebody peed in their private party's punch-bowl.
  • On "Mil-Spec Monkeys": I'm with Patrick Sweeney--milspec to me is "Minimum Acceptable," not "milspec for sake of milspec no questions asked." Much like the technical differences between our countries' rifles, the higher the numbers being deployed the more corners need to be cut on them, and a change that makes one rifle better for $20 or even just $5 more is a lot more viable when building only one or a handful than when ordering in the hundreds of thousands of units. So if I can sneak in a mechanical improvement without it being a visible departure to the average untrained eye, I will. (Examples: slicker and more durable BCG's, better buffer system, more polished FCG.)

Here's where I am and what I've figured out so far; bearing in mind I'm stuck with only US sources, I would appreciate any suggestions on helping get this closer to "issue configuration". (My goal is, ideally, to case the rifle as closely as I can to how CF C8's are cased for transport or storage, then walk the girlfriend through as close an experience as we can replicate to the CF qualification exercise--her dad is an old-school RCAF vet, so I want to give her a "Guess What *I* Did" to talk about when she goes home afterward. "Competition/Sport" is one of the few reasons a non-resident alien is allowed to even temporarily possess a firearm where I live, so I was thinking a match based on the CF qual, another modeled on USMC qual and then the NRA Marksmanship Program should provide a sufficient long-term pretext for Range Days down here while other things get sorted out between us.)

Overall: Furniture to be finished in Krylon 4296 Woodland Light Green topped with a matte clearcoat, unless either a closer match or a Cerakote/Duracoat/etc. equivalent is found. Items in Bold Green are in-hand.

Upper Receiver Assembly
  • Basic Upper Group: BCM C8 SFW
  • Bolt Carrier Group: Toolcraft black-nitride/Carpenter 158--this is identical to the spare BCG's the US Defense Department buys other than the coating, and technically better with BN being both slicker and more durable than phosphate.
  • Charging Handle: Milspec, with True North Arms "Hook" latch replica. (Edit 5/1, may skip Claw latch as TNA no longer ships to USA.)
  • Front Sight Post: KNS Precision .052" Round
  • Handguard: Six-hole CAR-style, "skinny", spraybombed--M&A Parts and Top Notch Top Ends both have these
  • Tri-rail: BCM
  • Rail covers: Magpul/Ergo/Falcon OD, cut to fit
  • Rear BUIS: Diemaco fixed courtesy of a fellow member
  • Lower Rail: Cadex CMR-418-01 4.2". I have a vendor here in the States willing to special-order them for me.
  • Foregrip: Cadex 622-000 green. Some still available on eBay.
Lower Receiver Assembly
  • Lower Receiver: Since I can legally work from blanks down here, I'm thinking an 80% engraved with facsimile CF (but not CC/Diemaco) markings--since I want a believable looking but clearly replica build, I'm thinking serial it (yr)AE99999 to be "correct for the numbering system" but well after any official c/n's. (Similar example: When the Russians reopened the line on one of their WWII warbirds for the collector/museum market, the first new bird was C/N'ed one above the last of the old.) Atomic Engraving actually has a pre-engraved C7 blank in their catalog, and are willing to make me a C8A3 variation at the same price.
  • Lower Parts Kit: Spares Bin generic. I'll upgrade to QMS if GF's interest and presence warrant.
  • Ambi Safety: Milspec.
  • Ambi Mag Catch: Arms Unlimited. Norgon clone, and the two I have are identical to milspec in the limited function testing I've done so far.
  • Stock Assembly: Polymer CAR-style, spraybombed. M&A Parts is the consensus at M4Carbine.net.
  • [edit 6/8]Endplate: Single-slotted. Crosshair's photo looks very much like one from GG&G and another from Vltor. Odin Works's "near-triangle" on the way.
  • Buffer System: Geissele Super 42 may not be needed for 16" Carbine-length gas, so I'll stick with the Car from the stock kit plus a twangbuster and only tinker as needed here.
  • Recoil Pad: Here we get to a real problem. Nobody down here has ribbed pads in OD that I've found (or any other color), and everywhere up there I've found is both "Out of Stock" and "No Export"--and I'm not about to ask the GF to risk an ITAR violation slipping one in her luggage.
  • Grip: A2 spritzed with Krylon 4296.
  • Otis Grip-Kit Cleaning Kit.
Known Omissions: If I'm throwing in the thousand bucks and labor to build my girlfriend a rifle, she can deal with the optic and Ex-Im paperwork to get it here herself, and she's going to have to buy her own bayonet because I was raised that it's bad etiquette to give cutlery. "Gifting a knife wounds a relationship" and all that.
  • Eickhorn B2005CAN bayonet
  • Elcan SpecterOS 3.4x optic with green cover (note: thinking about if Nordic Marksman will sell me an empty cover, picking up a US milsurp M145 and "re-skinning it" if I can find one at a good price.

Questions:
  • Does anybody have a photo of an unmounted CF endplate?

That's where I am so far based on what I've been able to piece together from here, M4C, Arfcom (ick... they remind me of 4chan) and other sources, what do I need to work on for this to "Suck Less"?
 
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We actually do have Elcan Specter, but its for the guys in Multicam

On the reg force guys pers weapon, these can be observed and are issued at different level:

Elcan C79
EO Tech 552
Diemaco Rear back up sight
ARMS #40 .75moa
 
johnamillertime said:
You could do a first gen c8 build, that might make it easier? Isn't there a restriction in the US on shorter barrel rifles?
Click to expand...

The BCM C8 SFW uppers have 16” barrels, which do not require a tax stamp (for SBR status).

The first C8s have 14.5” barrels and the new heavier barrels on the C8FTHBs and C8A3s are 15.7”, both requiring the aforementioned tax stamp because they are both under 16”.
 
johnamillertime said:
You could do a first gen c8 build, that might make it easier? Isn't there a restriction in the US on shorter barrel rifles?
Click to expand...

Less than 16" and they need a stamp for an SBR. Or they put a pistol brace on it and it's a pistol...

If you're getting black furniture, you can always grab a standard Colt N1 stock (or any facsimile) and do what they did when the C7A2 came in and spray bomb the black furniture to match.
 
-[Crosshair]- said:
The BCM C8 SFW uppers have 16” barrels, which do not require a tax stamp (for SBR status).

The first C8s have 14.5” barrels and the new heavier barrels on the C8FTHBs and C8A3s are 15.7”, both requiring the aforementioned tax stamp because they are both under 16”.
Click to expand...

Alternatively, pin one of those slightly extended A2 birdcages to the barrel to make it 16".
 
The irony, gents, is that both "get around NFA34" approaches are getting used on opposite sides of the pair. With the C8A3 using the longer SFW barrel and the BCM being negligibly stretched, and the idea being to have both it and my own M4gery kept as close as possible to "current issue configuration"... well, I'm using the Pistol Cheat on the 14.5 M4 (ironic, a weapon that has rifle barrel and ballistics being a "pistol") since I can't really use *any* rifle stock anyway--I have weird things going on between short arms and deep, odd-shaped ribcage/shoulders (I'm 5'6" and wear a size-44 suit jacket), so usually what I have to do is ratchet stocks down to Full Collapse and handle 'em like a Chicago Typewriter with all the push-pull "resistance" coming from arm muscles.

-[Crosshair]- said:
I just took these for you:
https://imgur.com/gallery/eBkVAPY
We use Elcan C79A2-1s, the CF does not have SpecterOS' but I think that's what you meant since you mentioned the green cover. The Brits use them. I know we can get refurbished Elcans here but I don't know about the US.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Crosshair--the CF endplate may be out of production but I think GG&G in Arizona have one that looks pretty close. (Ironically, before Buckeye Tactical came through willing to special-order genuine Cadex they were my fallback on the rail... and they turn out more expensive than the genuine article.) Down here in the US we usually can't get C79's, so I was thinking for a "roadmap" look for the commercial equivalent ("OS 3.4x" is the Elcan model designator; Specter DR 1-4x is used by SOCOM on CQBW uppers) and slap on the green cover--though our M145 "Machine Gun Optic" is a C79 variant. (AFAIC, once I've built an iron-sighted, qualification-ready rifle I've done my part, and if C. wants to play with optics or Fix Bayonets, then while I'll provide all the relevant info I can that's her problem to sort out.)

johnamillertime said:
You could do a first gen c8 build, that might make it easier? Isn't there a restriction in the US on shorter barrel rifles?
Click to expand...
National Firearms Act of 1934 (which here I abbreviate NFA34 to differentiate from your National Firearms Association, which sounds more equivalent to our NRA)--anything with a stock under 16" (rifle)/18" (shotgun) barrel requires a $200 tax-stamp, a year or so to process and authorization paperwork to cross state lines with. Ironically, a first-gen would be easier as a pistol, while a "pure" SFW/FTHB/A3 are 0.3" under legal so it's easier to just go the extra 0.3". (The BCM upper and tri-rail were created because Larry Vickers wanted a C8 for his NATO arms collection, couldn't import the real thing and decided that adding 1/3" was an acceptable compromise to bring a representative C8 to the masses--it's actually less visible than the 1.5" added to a "Title I" M4gery like a Colt LE6920, though my personal preference for "stretch models" is to upgrade to mid-length gas.)

Incidentally, looks like Vickers might have used the DD A1.5 on his personal SFW, though I'm not sure about that endplate and the "hook" is conspicuously absent:
C8_SFW_Angle_Rear_Right-v02.jpg


lerch641 said:
If you're getting black furniture, you can always grab a standard Colt N1 stock (or any facsimile) and do what they did when the C7A2 came in and spray bomb the black furniture to match.
Click to expand...
Main reason I was asking about a color match :) : with green furniture becoming hard to get even for some of you guys (and with N1's specifically becoming a challenge even down here), Krylon was my Plan B. (And while clone purists may look down their noses, I'd like to keep a few subtle differences--almost imperceptible, but there if you know exactly what to look for--so this is a "replica"/"tribute" build as opposed to a "counterfeit" like a handful of skeevy sorts in the restoration community are known to do. This is also, in addition to "trademark/trade dress" why I plan to have the lower engraved with CF markings, Maple Leaf and CF-style serial, but no CC/D marks.) Bonus if I can use things I already have in my spares box, since I have a few buddies who keep turning my bench into the "Island of Misfit Unwanted AR Parts"...
 
Those triangle, ambidextrous end plates were trialed by the CF but never fully adopted a long time ago (2010-2011ish, I installed a bunch on some trial rifles at my unit at the time). They come on a few civilian versions of Diemaco rifles up here, I think? Some people can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
-[Crosshair]- said:
Those triangle, ambidextrous end plates were trialed by the CF but never fully adopted a long time ago (2010-2011ish, I installed a bunch on some trial rifles at my unit at the time). They come on a few civilian versions of Diemaco rifles up here, I think? Some people can correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

You are correct. The SA and IUR models are usually found with them.
 
lerch641 said:
Less than 16" and they need a stamp for an SBR. Or they put a pistol brace on it and it's a pistol...

If you're getting black furniture, you can always grab a standard Colt N1 stock (or any facsimile) and do what they did when the C7A2 came in and spray bomb the black furniture to match.
Click to expand...

I certainly can’t speak for all of the rifles but when the C7A2 showed up in 2 Bde it was with green fiberglass handguards and the green textured stock. None of the parts were painted. Some even had a darker green non textured Colt fiberlite N1 stock.

When we got the C8A3 in 2 Bde the handguards were painted green.

I’d personally make a C8FTHB as those came with black furniture and none of the garbage Ambi “upgrades”.
 
I've only seen C8 handguards painted green near the beginning of the C8A3 as well but I guess Colt Canada used up all their old stock because I haven't seen any for many, many years now after constantly ordering some over the years for the shop.
 
Leg said:
I certainly can’t speak for all of the rifles but when the C7A2 showed up in 2 Bde it was with green fiberglass handguards and the green textured stock. None of the parts were painted. Some even had a darker green non textured Colt fiberlite N1 stock.

When we got the C8A3 in 2 Bde the handguards were painted green.

I’d personally make a C8FTHB as those came with black furniture and none of the garbage Ambi “upgrades”.
Click to expand...
Sorry, to clarify I meant the C8's were painted to match the C7A2. When I was in Gagetown, when all the black C7 furniture was disposed of and green furniture ordered, the C8's got green pistol grips and stocks swapped in, and the handguards were painted to match. Looked like Shilo gave the same treatment to their C8's that I saw.
 
You'll see all kinds of tan, sand and brown painted rifles and carbines if you visit sniper and recce vaults. Some people paint their stuff overseas and don't bother taking the paint off or replacing the parts.
 
Some followup questions, since a build plan has been worked out and now just awaits "trigger pull" thanks to you guys' help...

1. Is there any kind of standard case CF uses to transport single rifles, or is it just "sling on operator shoulder, then case in multiples back at the arms room"?
2. Is there any kind of open-source documentation available for the CF or RCMP rifle qualifiers? (This one also has another motive, a recurring feature I have as part of my column at RedState is something I call "Drill Of The Month"--basically various Military and LE qual courses and whatever other challenging or fun-looking drills catch my eye, and I'd like to include some from around the world to add a little flavor, also maybe help my readers appreciate some of our allies a little more. :) )
 
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