Can we set the record straight for Swiss Arms? CSC & TSE True of False?

[panzerblaster]

I'm honestly curious as to how many here are fine with this obvious shill account? Sure TSE has the moral compass of a two bit hooker that's four bits in debt, but there's very few in this thread that's even questioning the shill account.

The childish BS between CSC and TSE needed to stop YEARS ago. There's a long list of tit for tat crap that's clearly still going on to this day (re, OP shill account). For this reason, I'll will not shop either store no matter what they're offering. I guess it's a double super no for shopping at TSE's shop with the actions regarding the SAN.

The fact the OP's name isn't pink speaks volumes to the management of this forum in openly tolerating shill accounts as well.

 

[inthewoods]

Since JR wants to make this right, just buy all the guns back at their original value. It would only be about 7 million dollars. Just take out a line of credit.

 

[P of PDent]

I have more to lose on these new proposed regulations than most end use consumers as obviously I own a retail firearms business (along with my family partners) and will and have felt the brunt of force from the federal govt (Liberals) trying to limit and eventually shut down most firearms dealers one way or another. We along with several retailers have specialized in these types of firearms (black and green semi autos) and have sold several hundred Swiss Arms and CZ858's in the past. I personally own a compact SAN and one of the very few (around a dozen) sniper models that were sold in Canada and this without a doubt is my favourite semi auto rifle that I said I would never sell. I also personally own several AR's, 12(5)'s and 12(6)'s and it seems every day I am more limited as to what I can use in the bush or even at a legal range relegating them to glorified safe queens. Not counting the dollar value lost now in my personal and business guns (which is substantial) I mainly fear for our industry staying alive as it is way more than just a "sport" or "hobby" as this is our life's passion and love and I am really afraid for the future of our country that is way more than just prohibiting a few models of guns.

It seems easy to blame some people and businesses for this current fiasco but please don't forget where the real blame should be directed and any time spent pointing the finger at one another in the firearms community now is wasted effort as we should all band together for a common front to fight this unfair misdirected legislation. I will be at the Calgary Easter show and I am happy to share my thoughts and support to anyone in our community no matter what business or side of the counter you stand on. Never give up. Phil.

 

[Panzerdagen]

I am requesting the businesses and the community to set the record straight for the future of the Canadian sporting firearms community.

There has been interesting commentary on social media regarding the Liberal Government’s plans to make all Swiss Arms Classic series firearms and all CZ-858s prohibited.
Some members of the gun community have been very vocal alleging that Mr. Cox at TSE is solely responsible for this outcome.

This is what the non-industry members have gathered so far. Please tell us if it is true or not.
No speculations, just facts that can be backed up by official source.


True or False?
Statement 1: Mr. Cox, CEO of The Shooting Edge reported to the RCMP that Calgary Shooting Centre imported illegal converted semi-auto “Classic Green” rifles to Canada.

Picture 1 - Excerpt from RCMP report, File# 2013 672556


Statement 1 background information:
A customer brought in a “Classic Green” rifle purchased from Calgary Shooting Centre (CSC) for a trade in to The Shooting Edge (TSE) in Calgary AB. CEO of TSE, Mr. Cox believed that it was a converted full auto to semi auto and reported it to RCMP that CSC is importing illegal firearms.
Letter below by SAN shows their claim that “Classic Green” rifles are purposely built semi-auto and not a converted semi-auto rifle. All “Classic Green” rifles sold in Canada were made by SAN as purposely built semi-auto and these specifications were confirmed by Mr. Cox.

Picture 2 – Letter from SAN Swiss Arms AG


Upon examination by the RCMP forensics team, it was proven that the provided “Classic Green” rifle samples (including the "trade-in" rifle suspected by Mr. Cox) all had semi-automatic receivers but could not conclusively differentiate a purposely built semi-auto imported by both TSE and CSC vs. a converted semi-auto receiver. Therefore, RCMP reclassified all “Classic Green” rifles as prohibited.
This indicates that the specifications of the “Classic Green” receiver, confirmed by Mr. Cox were not adequate to receive non-restricted status in Canada.

Statement 2: RCMP cannot find differences between “Classic Green” receiver and semi-automatic versions of SG550.

Statement 3: In response to the RCMP findings that the “Classic Green” rifle brought into TSE for a trade-in (originally purchased from CSC) is not a converted semi-auto, Mr. Cox stated on CBC that "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig”. (It didn’t matter what the specifications were, at their core, they were still variants of the SG550s. It’s the lineage that count.)

Link 1- CBC Article "Lipstick on a pig" http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ban-of-swiss-arms-guns-sows-confusion-1.2562933

For the members of the Canadian gun community this makes us wonder why Mr. Cox didn’t report himself to the RCMP when he imported SAN “Classic Green” (variants of the SG550). The RCMP report is clear that it is difficult to find differences between “Classic Green” receiver and semi-automatic versions of SG550/SG540 receivers.

I do not believe Mr. Cox is single handedly responsible for this mess, and this does not need to be dragged on any further.

Please tell us if the 3 statements above are facts.

We demand the truth.



PW

"we damand the truth" as you say but you cant even respond to the "shill" accusation eh? wheres your "truth"

just one and done....

 

[Brian46]

I personally own a compact SAN and one of the very few (around a dozen) sniper models that were sold in Canada and this without a doubt is my favourite semi auto rifle that I said I would never sell.

I can appreciate your problem, at one point I owned every single model of the Swiss Arms in green including the sniper and many rare Swiss arms accessories rarely seen.

 

[bush1]

Hey, panzerblaster and panzerdagen, you guys both ask the same question within a few hours of each other.

Are you guys related, by chance? Could you guys be shills for the other side? Just asking.

 

[cr5]

I have more to lose on these new proposed regulations than most end use consumers as obviously I own a retail firearms business (along with my family partners) and will and have felt the brunt of force from the federal govt (Liberals) trying to limit and eventually shut down most firearms dealers one way or another. We along with several retailers have specialized in these types of firearms (black and green semi autos) and have sold several hundred Swiss Arms and CZ858's in the past. I personally own a compact SAN and one of the very few (around a dozen) sniper models that were sold in Canada and this without a doubt is my favourite semi auto rifle that I said I would never sell. I also personally own several AR's, 12(5)'s and 12(6)'s and it seems every day I am more limited as to what I can use in the bush or even at a legal range relegating them to glorified safe queens. Not counting the dollar value lost now in my personal and business guns (which is substantial) I mainly fear for our industry staying alive as it is way more than just a "sport" or "hobby" as this is our life's passion and love and I am really afraid for the future of our country that is way more than just prohibiting a few models of guns.

It seems easy to blame some people and businesses for this current fiasco but please don't forget where the real blame should be directed and any time spent pointing the finger at one another in the firearms community now is wasted effort as we should all band together for a common front to fight this unfair misdirected legislation. I will be at the Calgary Easter show and I am happy to share my thoughts and support to anyone in our community no matter what business or side of the counter you stand on. Never give up. Phil.

I fully agree that we need to band together for a common front but we also need to remove the traitors from the group. What Cox did was unforgivable and no amount of "I got caught so now I'm sorry" will change what happened. Unlike todays snowflake millennial mentality I don't simply forgive someone for what they've done just because they got caught and are trying to limit the backlash with an apology. I look at this one like a drunk driver ran over my child then crashed his car trying to flee the scene and then tries to apologize to stay out of jail. Sorry, no forgiveness from me, he's only sorry that he got exposed and we see his true character. It was a petty and dirty attempt to put his main competition out of business hidden behind the guise of "trying to do the right thing". The right thing would have been to contact CSC and figure out where the rifle came from and if it actually was illegal then deal with it by removing it from circulation if it was not to Canadian NR spec.

To the guys saying they have no skin in this game because they don't own a SA, you're wrong. If you own or wish to own any semi auto this effects you. If the RCMP ban this rifle they will gain momentum and move onto the next rifle they want to get rid of. This won't stop until we're all completely disarmed and need a license to buy a knife.

 

[Panzerdagen]

Hey, panzerblaster and panzerdagen, you guys both ask the same question within a few hours of each other.

Are you guys related, by chance? Could you guys be shills for the other side? Just asking.

funny..... I didnt join only a few days ago though....

good eye though! I didnt even see that post from panzerblaster

 

[Mr Wolverine]

I have more to lose on these new proposed regulations than most end use consumers as obviously I own a retail firearms business (along with my family partners) and will and have felt the brunt of force from the federal govt (Liberals) trying to limit and eventually shut down most firearms dealers one way or another. We along with several retailers have specialized in these types of firearms (black and green semi autos) and have sold several hundred Swiss Arms and CZ858's in the past. I personally own a compact SAN and one of the very few (around a dozen) sniper models that were sold in Canada and this without a doubt is my favourite semi auto rifle that I said I would never sell. I also personally own several AR's, 12(5)'s and 12(6)'s and it seems every day I am more limited as to what I can use in the bush or even at a legal range relegating them to glorified safe queens. Not counting the dollar value lost now in my personal and business guns (which is substantial) I mainly fear for our industry staying alive as it is way more than just a "sport" or "hobby" as this is our life's passion and love and I am really afraid for the future of our country that is way more than just prohibiting a few models of guns.

It seems easy to blame some people and businesses for this current fiasco but please don't forget where the real blame should be directed and any time spent pointing the finger at one another in the firearms community now is wasted effort as we should all band together for a common front to fight this unfair misdirected legislation. I will be at the Calgary Easter show and I am happy to share my thoughts and support to anyone in our community no matter what business or side of the counter you stand on. Never give up. Phil.

I have to agree with Phil 100%, if the Canadian shooting community would direct their energy at the Government where it would do us some good instead of bickering among ourselves we might actually make some progress. What a ridiculous time to start pointing fingers with in our own community, time to focus our energy in educating the liberal MP's as to what is ahead for them if they continue to direct their efforts at us, instead of countering the criminal use of firearms.

 

[saskcop]

I have more to lose on these new proposed regulations than most end use consumers as obviously I own a retail firearms business (along with my family partners) and will and have felt the brunt of force from the federal govt (Liberals) trying to limit and eventually shut down most firearms dealers one way or another. We along with several retailers have specialized in these types of firearms (black and green semi autos) and have sold several hundred Swiss Arms and CZ858's in the past. I personally own a compact SAN and one of the very few (around a dozen) sniper models that were sold in Canada and this without a doubt is my favourite semi auto rifle that I said I would never sell. I also personally own several AR's, 12(5)'s and 12(6)'s and it seems every day I am more limited as to what I can use in the bush or even at a legal range relegating them to glorified safe queens. Not counting the dollar value lost now in my personal and business guns (which is substantial) I mainly fear for our industry staying alive as it is way more than just a "sport" or "hobby" as this is our life's passion and love and I am really afraid for the future of our country that is way more than just prohibiting a few models of guns.

It seems easy to blame some people and businesses for this current fiasco but please don't forget where the real blame should be directed and any time spent pointing the finger at one another in the firearms community now is wasted effort as we should all band together for a common front to fight this unfair misdirected legislation. I will be at the Calgary Easter show and I am happy to share my thoughts and support to anyone in our community no matter what business or side of the counter you stand on. Never give up. Phil.

Well said Phil. I couldn't agree more - the finger should be pointed squarely at the lieberals and their co-horts for this kind of legislation. Otherwise, they may be succeeding at dividing and conquering the firearms community in Canada.

 

[CobraGuy]

I have to agree with Phil 100%, if the Canadian shooting community would direct their energy at the Government where it would do us some good instead of bickering among ourselves we might actually make some progress. What a ridiculous time to start pointing fingers with in our own community, time to focus our energy in educating the liberal MP's as to what is ahead for them if they continue to direct their efforts at us, instead of countering the criminal use of firearms.

Amen. Instead of posting here about something that happened 5+ years ago - write a letter to your MP. If you don't, a few years from now you can point fingers at yourself in the mirror when you ONLY have a "restricted" bolt action .22 in your safe.

 

[Sniffer]

Amen. Instead of posting here about something that happened 5+ years ago - write a letter to your MP. If you don't, a few years from now you can point fingers at yourself in the mirror when you ONLY have a "restricted" bolt action .22 in your safe.

With the Liberals in charge and Turdo doing all he can to cozy up to the UN a "restricted" bolt action .22 in your safe is still one step from the end goal - an empty safe

 

[nowarningshot]

Man tried to bury thousands of people who bought $4000 rifles. Voluntarily became a liberal mouthpiece immediately after a M305 was used in Moncton, willing to once again throw owners of $650 rifles under the bus so he could sell his $2k+ Springfield M1A.

This is not a one off. You could add years of deliberate domain name misdirection. Years, not a one off angry spiteful moment. The man renewed the domain every year.

Sure, move on to fighting C71. But don't forget one of the Bills contributors, a greedy Judas in our midst.

 

[fleabaggins]

As far as the interfering with CSC's business goes, TSE owns the web domain calgaryshootingcentre.com and has it redirecting to TSE's website. How's that for class, masquerading as the competition? Renewing the thing annually make it worse so far as I'm concerned, it just seems awfully petty to me. I was trying to not take sides until I discovered that tidbit and it knocked me right off the fence.

So to be accurate with this - when I enter calgaryshootingcentre.com into my web bar, it redirects to the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association (AHEIA) website. I am not sure where the info came from that it redirects to TSE. Can anyone who has had this happen comment on this?

 

[nowarningshot]

There is discussion on that in this thread, or the thread on his forum which he shut down.

Just changed the web redirection. Admitted doing it for years, said he changed it. Strike fecking three.

 

[Brian46]

So to be accurate with this - when I enter calgaryshootingcentre.com into my web bar, it redirects to the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association (AHEIA) website. I am not sure where the info came from that it redirects to TSE. Can anyone who has had this happen comment on this?

He posted he changed it shortly after it was made public on the forum, claiming he forgot to. Hard to forget about something you have been paying to renew for years

 

[twyeh]

Disgusting little man, only cares about profit and nothing else. If this was in the USA, TSE would already be out of business with no return in sight.

 

[TSE JR]

voluntarily became a liberal mouthpiece immediately after a m305 was used in moncton, willing to once again throw owners of $650 rifles under the bus so he could sell his $2k+ springfield m1a.
.

wtf?

 

[PaveHammer]

wtf?

I believe he's referring to this article, where you're quoted.

https://globalnews.ca/news/1376131/...he-photo-of-man-believe-to-be-justin-bourque/

 

[TSE JR]

I believe he's referring to this article, where you're quoted.

https://globalnews.ca/news/1376131/...he-photo-of-man-believe-to-be-justin-bourque/

Okay... don't remember that one, but I don't see what's wrong about answering a reporter. I definitely didn't say anything negative or that we shouldn't have them. That's a stretch. I also didn't refer to them as anything "assaulty...".

JR