Critique and comment on our Ruger 10/22 stock (goes into prototypeing this week!)
- Thread starter Bender_Unit
- Start date
Thank you! I am leaning towards just that, a bare bones stock ready to take AR parts.
I think the sliding stock is getting the axe for the time being. The majority want AR compatiblity, and ditching the sliding stock will lower the price. It may come back as an option later.
^ Nah... the ability of using the standard 10/22 sights will render this design fugly. The whole "coolness" of this design is that it doesn't resemble the 10/22 at all and should be only used (preferably) with a target/sightless barrel.
The other thing about making the rail removable is precision. A fixed/permanent rail will have much more stability than a rail that's screwed in/removable. People who build their rifles with stocks such as these will usually be prepared to invest a little more and get a red dot, a holo-sight, a scope or other rail-mounted sighting systems.
If you really want to use iron sights, then something like the XCR sighting system would be in order... imagine how nice it would look then!
Some rough and dirty rail mounted irons:
Pro/Engineer Wildfire 1.0
EDIT: I should have some free machine time this afternoon/evening, unless someone has any other quick ideas/suggestions im gonna start makin' chips today.
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That last one looks quite nice.
I can't believe this awesome thread has escaped my knowledge up to this point though!
I dont really have any quick ideas other than including a sling swivel point on the left and right sides of the receiver cover near the buffer tube.
I do however have a very long, very drawn out idea that would require tons of work on your part....
A legal bullpup conversion.
Thats something that would sell. Even guys with Nordic Components, Evo, or Krinker kits would want one! I know because I am one of those guys and I would want a kit like this for gopher hunting. Could be a pretty handy rifle, and accurate with the right setup.
It would take alot of work though.
I can't believe this awesome thread has escaped my knowledge up to this point though!
I dont really have any quick ideas other than including a sling swivel point on the left and right sides of the receiver cover near the buffer tube.
I do however have a very long, very drawn out idea that would require tons of work on your part....
A legal bullpup conversion.
Thats something that would sell. Even guys with Nordic Components, Evo, or Krinker kits would want one! I know because I am one of those guys and I would want a kit like this for gopher hunting. Could be a pretty handy rifle, and accurate with the right setup.
It would take alot of work though.
The hard part would be the manufacturers licence. Taking the existing Ruger 10/22 reciever, and reverse engineering it to include a buttpad and forward mounted trigger/bar should be easy for someone with Bender's skills.
Thank you! I am leaning towards just that, a bare bones stock ready to take AR parts.
I think the sliding stock is getting the axe for the time being. The majority want AR compatiblity, and ditching the sliding stock will lower the price. It may come back as an option later.
Some rough and dirty rail mounted irons:
Pro/Engineer Wildfire 1.0
EDIT: I should have some free machine time this afternoon/evening, unless someone has any other quick ideas/suggestions im gonna start makin' chips today.
Looks pretty sweet to me, let me know when it's ready and put my name on the list! Maybe I'll have it before the Colt M4 .22 is actually released??? The gophers won't know what hit them!!
762mm:
I agree with you that the standard 10/22 sights wouldn't look as good with this setup. I was thinking that someone (like me) who hasn't yet chosen from amongst the dozens of iron sights available, would be able to use the 10/22's standard sights in the interim.
I also like the Tech-Sights (long sighting radius, and same sight picture as my M14
), but these would not be compatible if the upper rail were not removable.One thing is certain, the full-length upper rail is defnitely the way to go, since it allows so many possibilities for sighting systems: scope (rear or scout mount), BUIS, red-dot/EO Tech, BUIS co-witnessed with red dot... great range of choices.
Having the top rail removable makes it even more versatile.
+1, it looks the same expect the full length top rail plus the 3 other rails at 3,6,9 o'clock
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Bender if you want to sell a whole bunch of stocks remember one word:
Modularity.
If you could design your 10/22 stock to take AR pistol grips, and AR Hand Guards, plus AR Stocks then you have something. Think of it as a chassis where people could build their own gun. All they do is buy your chassis, and choose their own butt stock, pistol grip, hand guard and barrel. Add a 10/22 receiver and trigger group and voila, customized rifle.
It also uses FAR less Aluminum and mill time, which will just run up your costs.....
All you have to do is figure out the geometry to allow standard AR picatinny hand guards to mate to your chassis and the receiver scope mount (or build your own scope mount to ensure it mates properly).....The barrel might sit a little high in the hand guard but who cares, it's free floated anyway.....
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Design something that works with existing parts and you're laughing....
Modularity.
If you could design your 10/22 stock to take AR pistol grips, and AR Hand Guards, plus AR Stocks then you have something. Think of it as a chassis where people could build their own gun. All they do is buy your chassis, and choose their own butt stock, pistol grip, hand guard and barrel. Add a 10/22 receiver and trigger group and voila, customized rifle.
It also uses FAR less Aluminum and mill time, which will just run up your costs.....
All you have to do is figure out the geometry to allow standard AR picatinny hand guards to mate to your chassis and the receiver scope mount (or build your own scope mount to ensure it mates properly).....The barrel might sit a little high in the hand guard but who cares, it's free floated anyway.....
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Design something that works with existing parts and you're laughing....
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Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
double tap
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thanks all for the comments!
BabySeal and Canuck223:
Sling swivels, good idea.. As for the bullpup, one day maybe..
Ozzy:
I'll throw together a model with the sliding stock tomorrow for you if i have the time.
Brother1:
Keep watching the thread ! haha
Clobbersaurus:
That is the definite trend. As of now it already takes AR stocks and grips. AR forends are pretty expensive, and unless the potential customer already has an AR they're willing to pillage for parts or share them with their AR, the total cost is gonna climb pretty fast. But it is definitely an idea that has potential. Thanks for the input!
P12:
End plate sling adapters will work, 3/9 o'clock rails are axed , top is one piece
... price is tumbling downward
Edit: didn't have time to make chips today, but got a good portion of the programming done.
BabySeal and Canuck223:
Sling swivels, good idea.. As for the bullpup, one day maybe..
Ozzy:
I'll throw together a model with the sliding stock tomorrow for you if i have the time.
Brother1:
Keep watching the thread ! haha
Clobbersaurus:
That is the definite trend. As of now it already takes AR stocks and grips. AR forends are pretty expensive, and unless the potential customer already has an AR they're willing to pillage for parts or share them with their AR, the total cost is gonna climb pretty fast. But it is definitely an idea that has potential. Thanks for the input!
P12:
End plate sling adapters will work, 3/9 o'clock rails are axed , top is one piece
... price is tumbling downward
Edit: didn't have time to make chips today, but got a good portion of the programming done.
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How long will the bottom rail be, will there be a sling swivel up front on the bottom or the sides, or a place to attache one. With no side rails a flash light would have to go on the bottom, and with a grip already there it might get tight.
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
It gets more interesting by the minute.
I agree (that's what I had recommended in my original post, #27), with one exception. I prefer to have the integral forend, as originally planned by Bender, and not AR forends. That would drive the price way up, both for Bender, and for the buyer. It would also essentially copy the Nordic and Evo Gen 2 chassis, without much value-added (except perhaps cost and Canadian availability). It's also harder to ensure the same sight plane for the top rail if the forend comes from a different manufacturer.
My recommendation would be to stick with the original plan, and have an integral forend with full-length top rail (hopefully removable, as mentioned in my other threads, to facilitate installation of the receiver/barrel, and to allow more options for the iron sights).
Yes, it's similar to the Evo Gen 1, but looks much better IMO, due to the change in forend geometry.
The ability to use different AR forends could be made available with a follow-on product.
Personally, I don't use side rails (I only require a flat, full-length top rail and the bottom rail for a flashlight mount). But to maintain versatility without driving up the costs, one could simply drill and tap holes on each side, to allow the installation of sling swivels or side rails. These could be offered by Bender as options (as well as various stocks, iron sights, etc), which keeps the base cost of the chassis affordable, but also provides the other items at a reasonable extra cost (+ extra profit for Bender; we want our Canadian manufacturers to stay in business, particularly those who produce such excellent products!).
Bender,
I recommend that you make the forend longer than 5.5"; at that length the bottom rail becomes useless, because the hand takes up all the space. You need a bottom rail about 8" long (measured from the front of the mag well to the front of the rail). This leaves enough room for the hand, + a flashlight (with push-button tailcap, activated by the index finger), or a bipod (another useful option).
This longer forend will also give a longer sight plane for the front sights, and will still work well with 11-12" barrels
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snip...
Bender,
I recommend that you make the forend longer than 5.5"; at that length the bottom rail becomes useless, because the hand takes up all the space. You need a bottom rail about 8" long (measured from the front of the mag well to the front of the rail). This leaves enough room for the hand, + a flashlight (with push-button tailcap, activated by the index finger), or a bipod (another useful option).
This longer forend will also give a longer sight plane for the front sights, and will still work well with 11-12" barrels
Here's some dimensions:
OVERALL LENGTH (NO BUTTSTOCK) : 15.75" (same as the EVO gen1)
MAGWELL TO FRONT OF FOREND: 8-1/16"
I reviewed the model and I can add another inch to the bottom rail, bringing it to 6.5", but that the max. The 2.75" space between the mag well and the beginning of the bottom rail cannot be covered (pillar bed access, main reciever mounting bolt access).
Also the bed will work with stock and bull barrels.
