Awesome to hear. And thanks for the updates. Looking forward to getting mine back whenever they are done the cosmetic work, then I can check out the internals and get to having some fun.
Crusader Arms Templar quality control issues and response
- Thread starter JayCorbett
- Start date
Awesome to hear. And thanks for the updates. Looking forward to getting mine back whenever they are done the cosmetic work, then I can check out the internals and get to having some fun.
Because it is the best option that we currently have for a Canadian manufactured semi-automatic sporting rifle. That's all.
"Best option" in my opinion is which one of these 180 clones is 'best bang for the buck'?
They all seem to suffer from the same level of mediocrity with respect to quality of components, minor issues and some breakage of parts, and all of the manufacturers seem responsive and easy to deal with warranty / repair work.
They all seem to offer the same level of performance (Accuracy, reliability and usability) with overall quality of fit and finish being the major difference in cost.
So what to go with? I think best bang for the buck still goes to Kodiak's WK.....either get a blemished gen 1 for ~$1k or a gen 2 for ~$1.5k, and count on the warranty if/when you need it....
My 2 cents.
They all seem to suffer from the same level of mediocrity with respect to quality of components, minor issues and some breakage of parts, and all of the manufacturers seem responsive and easy to deal with warranty / repair work.
They all seem to offer the same level of performance (Accuracy, reliability and usability) with overall quality of fit and finish being the major difference in cost.
So what to go with? I think best bang for the buck still goes to Kodiak's WK.....either get a blemished gen 1 for ~$1k or a gen 2 for ~$1.5k, and count on the warranty if/when you need it....
My 2 cents.
"Best Option" is a relative term in the eye of the beholder. To me, the quality of the fit and finish are secondary only to Reliability and Accuracy. In my world if a firearm is not both reasonably good looking and comfortable, it cannot be recommended. Furthermore, I refuse to purchase or recommend a gun that I KNOW has reliability issues (Piston and/or Cocking Handle breakage), which will require eventual warranty service. A warranty should be an insurance policy against unanticipated isses, NOT a required feature right out of the box. In my world, the WK-180 has few redeeming qualities whatsoever aside from its low entry cost. The known parts breakage issues and near-mandatory warranty service more than offset any initial cost savings IMHO. The WK-180 was designed from the outset as econo-rifle and as such it has ongoing issues to this very day. How anyone could recommend it as a "best option", particularlly for new shooters, is simply beyond me. The WK-180 is a recipe for frustration and angst for new shooters, the low entry price notwithstanding....
Yes but you get very passive aggressive whenever its brought up , I own a R18, its a nice rifle , its hardly fault free I had to get my original completely replaced, Mike and them at Sterling and TSE took care of it free of charge and I have nothing but praise for how quick the responses and turn around was but its still not a perfect rifle.
Plus for nearly 2900 after goverment tip I would hope the rifle preforms well enough
If I am "passive aggressive", it is because people accuse me of shilling for a rifle that I have promoted only because I like and believe in the product.
Aside from my supposed "aggression", what's your point? I have never claimed the R18 to be fault-free in any of my comments regarding the SAI rifle. Indeed, I have been consistently critical of the weight and accuracy, and several of my suggestions for improvement were incorporated into the current production version of the rifle. As a fellow owner, I am interested in hearing what you think the R18's specific shortcomings are....
Regarding the price, I can add the tax to any purchase to make it sound more expensive than it is, but the tax-rate varies across the country. Stick to retail cost, as that is the same everywhere. The R18 costs $2700 pre-tax, and I believe that the rifle is very good value for that money.
So again, what is your point?
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Of the available, domestically produced, 180 clones, yes I'd say go for the WK. It's cheap, has excellent manufacturer's support and may be an excellent source for a learning experience in addition to a decent overall semi-auto for newbies and experienced alike.
The R18 for sure, and arguably this Crusader are on the edge of pricing themselves out of the current market when one can source an SL-8, Tavor and other rifles off the used market for similar costs. Rifles from known manufacturers with pedigree and proper R and D.
By your argument / position above and in other recent posts you should also include the R18 in the list of firearms you would not recommend, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
It's too bad that RWA isn't around, their 180b was quality.
Nobody wanted a $2200 180 4 years ago when the Modern Sporter and Maccabee SLR could be had. They just came out with it too soon.
Rifle length gas, IBI barrel, steel sided upper etc for $2300 would get alot of attention right now.
Nobody wanted a $2200 180 4 years ago when the Modern Sporter and Maccabee SLR could be had. They just came out with it too soon.
Rifle length gas, IBI barrel, steel sided upper etc for $2300 would get alot of attention right now.
In fairness I too have noticed the frequency of Bartok5's pro-R18 posts in comparison to what I would say to be a comparative absence of others doing the same. They got a free rifle for doing their review which they posted here (and perhaps elsewhere, I just don't know). He and I have even been somewhat at odds in the past over some of his posts.
That being said Bartok5 has always been transparent about their relationship and how they got a free rifle for doing so. Other reviewers might not be so forthcoming and might not recommend another firearm over the one they received.
You can and should be skeptical, but on the other hand if the R18 is as good as Bartok5 thinks it is then what is Bartok5 supposed to do? Not mention it?
I regularly suggest the WK Gen 2 to people despite it's detractors
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I don't think its fair to compare the R18 to other 180Bs its 2lb heavier than most other ones (if not more).
I personally would never buy a 10 lb 223 platform. Its way too heavy for field and carry purposes. The templar had appeal for me because its 8 lbs, so still on the heavy side (vs my 5.5 lb AR) but not 10 LB. if I wanted a 10 LB platform I would have gotten something in 308. Heck the SL8 is lighter and its a pig. (way more accurate too)
If all you're doing is bench shooting. the weight doesnt matter.
Crusader still has to get the bugs worked out, and it sounds like they are supporting their product. But being Canadian, I doubt they had deep pockets to support a super long r and d process. a little bit of beta testing from customers is basically the only way they could get the product to market quickly and keep the cost down. and if they have the aftermarket support to take care of people if there are issues. I can't fault them for that.
You reek of someone who sniffs their own farts.
R18 is fine
I find it funny that you always manage to come out of the woodworks to bring it up or defend it. Dont read so much into it
thats it thats all, so lets just kiss and make up
How are we supposed to "kiss and make up when at the outset of your post you accuse me of "sniffing my own farts", which I can reasonably only infer as a negative? Talk about passive aggressive....
You guys sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of time analyzing me, my motivations and what I post. I had no idea that I was so fascinating, nor my opinions so prominent as to be worthy of such note. Some of you need to find a more fulfilling focus..... just saying.
BTW - I am in a wheelchair for anyone who missed my self-evident avatar. As a result of my losing my legs overseas, I don't do much "running and gunning" any more. In fact, I pretty much only bench shoot nowadays, so a rifle's weight means little to me and my predominant style of shooting. That said, I do remember my 28 years running and gunning in the infantry with legs. For that specific reason, I have made it abundantly clear that the R18 is a heavy rig at 10 lbs. It is no secret that weight is the R18's most significant deserved criticism. It does make for a very soft shooting bench-gun though!
Imagine my surprise to find out just today that they all have pros and cons.....(sarcasm off):
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There's honestly no need for jealousy. Those firearms are all still available on the Canadian market and are either NR or Restricted (due to barrel length). All it takes is time, $$ and an RPAL. I've been collecting for 35 years and am retired, so am in my twilight years. My advice is to enjoy your comparative youth while you can. Find a good job with a salary that will let you buy the things that you want and start from there. Keep the good ones and sell off the disappointments. You will eventually end up where I am, if the laws of the land still permit it....
Calm down, there is absolutely nothing wrong with him sharing his experience. It’s just a site for like minded people not a cudgel to punish companies when one is at the end of their rope. Personally, I don’t see anyone “getting trashed”, I see a guy sharing his experience and it is definitely helpful to people thinking of buying, for example. Also... IF a company is swapping out parts then it should be called out for everyone’s benefit.
How are we supposed to "kiss and make up when at the outset of your post you accuse me of "sniffing my own farts", which I can reasonably only infer as a negative? Talk about passive aggressive....
You guys sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of time analyzing me, my motivations and what I post. I had no idea that I was so fascinating, nor my opinions so prominent as to be worthy of such note. Some of you need to find a more fulfilling focus..... just saying.
BTW - I am in a wheelchair for anyone who missed my self-evident avatar. As a result of my losing my legs overseas, I don't do much "running and gunning" any more. In fact, I pretty much only bench shoot nowadays, so a rifle's weight means little to me and my predominant style of shooting. That said, I do remember my 28 years running and gunning in the infantry with legs. For that specific reason, I have made it abundantly clear that the R18 is a heavy rig at 10 lbs. It is no secret that weight is the R18's most significant deserved criticism. It does make for a very soft shooting bench-gun though!
Imagine my surprise to find out just today that they all have pros and cons.....(sarcasm off):
Damn thats crazy, so when do we kiss ?
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LOL, that's just the tip of the iceberg, dude. I left the Tavor X95 and FAMAE SG 540 at home today, so that's almost it for self-loading rifles that I'm still allowed to take to the range. You should see the ones that can't leave the house. Those are the interesting ones....
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Curious about the apc 308, what's the accuracy like? Reliability? Does it feed Steelcase? Held one at taccom and while I really liked it I don't see how it's 2x the price of a T7
