DAC 394 (Sig 228 Clone) Kit

[effects]

I'm hoping for more pictures of finished finishes. Joe-Boy how goes the Cerami-coat? mp5k - how are you going to finish yours?

 

[MiltonBradly]

I'm sure you have read the post in this forum, but I found three things in regard to locking block/barrel. The feed ramp on the barrel is too long or the locking block is too high. You'll have to figure it out which way to go. I could see little deformations on the feed ramp and I went very slowly until I had the clearances. Joe-Boy has a post on this. Two- was the angled surfaces on the barrel lug and the locking block need file work. I was hitting flat surface on flat surface. A little work and it was angle to angle and this caused the barrel to unlock and drop down. Three - once these two things were accomplished I needed to radius the back side of the feed ramp since it was binding on the locking block and there by jambing the barrel in the hole of the slide.

Anyway, good luck and Godspeed!

Bingo on all three! I had to do a bit of work on each surface to get it to drop down and travel back. When I finally had it cycling fully I found my slide/barrel/frame lockup loose when closed. I had to cut back the spring guide notch in the barrel lug so that it was resting against the take down latch and not the lug when assembled and closed... It would seem that no two are alike

I have most of the parts "roughly" figured out with the exception of some roll pins. I have one tiny little one with a zig-zag cut instead of the standard straight slice. I'm thinking it might be part #27 (spring, pin H.D.) on the Sig Diagrams. I also have two larger roll pins of a similar size to the breach block pin. One could be another breach block pin at 1.040" long and 0.150" but the other is 0.066" shorter and 0.136" OD. That sounds too big to be the inner breach block pin...? I don't have any other unaccounted for pins so I'm guessing they are the breach block pair. My slide came assembled with one badly peaned over pin in place, is that just a mockup pin?

MB

 

[P0WERWAGON]

that pin is just to keep it from falling apart. don't shoot the gun with it. you NEED to replace that pin with the right pinS.

 

[effects]

Bingo on all three! I had to do a bit of work on each surface to get it to drop down and travel back. When I finally had it cycling fully I found my slide/barrel/frame lockup loose when closed. I had to cut back the spring guide notch in the barrel lug so that it was resting against the take down latch and not the lug when assembled and closed... It would seem that no two are alike

I have most of the parts "roughly" figured out with the exception of some roll pins. I have one tiny little one with a zig-zag cut instead of the standard straight slice. I'm thinking it might be part #27 (spring, pin H.D.) on the Sig Diagrams. I also have two larger roll pins of a similar size to the breach block pin. One could be another breach block pin at 1.040" long and 0.150" but the other is 0.066" shorter and 0.136" OD. That sounds too big to be the inner breach block pin...? I don't have any other unaccounted for pins so I'm guessing they are the breach block pair. My slide came assembled with one badly peaned over pin in place, is that just a mockup pin?

MB

The small pin with the zig-zag teeth is the pin you insert to hold one of the holes on the ejector blade back at the ejector,sear,searspring and safety and you are correct is part # 27.

The spring pin(s) that come installed in the slide should not be used. However, both myself and Joe-Boy fired the firearm with just the single original pin installed. The two different sized spring pins that come with the kit are, I believe, meant to be replacements (an inner and outer - parts #7 and 8). I in no way could think of a way to force the very big pin (I think 3.9 mm into a 3.5 hole) and then I believe there would be no way of installing the smaller pin into the larger. Novega had his slide pins break and crack his breach block. Joe-Boy has ordered some pins from Aklands-Grainger to fit his kit. I tried to buy some on EE but they had already been sold. I plan to check with Joe-Boy and see how his solution has worked out. I currently have a 3.5 mm piece of drill bit in place but POWERWAGON has pointed out that it would be too brittle. I have to agree. I wold like to know what others have done about these pins.

Regards

effects

 

[mp5k]

not sure on my finish yet, maybe home parkerizing or a 2 tone effect. Everything seems to be working well now, even have double action release now. I will clean it up & try to hit the range soon!

 

[superbikeracer]

I'm replacing the DAC roll pins with SIG ones before I even start assembly.

 

[MiltonBradly]

hey all,

I'm getting single and double action out of my kit after a bit of work

What I'm not sure of is the decocker... (teehehe)...
When my decocker is activated and the hammer drops, the "arm" of the decocker (the lever that pushes the sear) gets stuck between the sear and the sear mating surface of the hammer...

You can see the silver "horn" of the hammer on the right of the decocker "arm" and the sear on the left of it. The only way to free the decocker arm from between them is to draw the hammer back again. This cant be right... I could just grind back the arm to clear the hammer but I'm not sure if the hammer is supposed to interface with the decocker at all?

Any help is appreciated.

MB

 

[effects]

hey all,

I'm getting single and double action out of my kit after a bit of work

What I'm not sure of is the decocker... (teehehe)...
When my decocker is activated and the hammer drops, the "arm" of the decocker (the lever that pushes the sear) gets stuck between the sear and the sear mating surface of the hammer...

You can see the silver "horn" of the hammer on the right of the decocker "arm" and the sear on the left of it. The only way to free the decocker arm from between them is to draw the hammer back again. This cant be right... I could just grind back the arm to clear the hammer but I'm not sure if the hammer is supposed to interface with the decocker at all?

Any help is appreciated.

MB

I had to work the distance "in" that my decocking lever was able to reach. It was moving the sear out but allowing the hammer to "fire". The lever was not picking up the hammer and stopping from travelling forward at full speed. Now my decocking releases the sear and then picks up the tension of the hammer. I then let the decocking lever back up and the hammer moves forward, slowly and controlled. Is your hammer swinging forward quickly when the sear is first released? If so your decocking is working like a trigger and not a decocking lever.

I hope I made some sense.

 

[MiltonBradly]

Yeah, my lever trips the sear and the hammer drives forward full speed. It catches on the DA tab of the trigger bar... I'm guessing that's not good for the trigger bar...

Off to the vice for some hammer time

Thnx
MB


*EDIT* A few bends later and it's decocking gracefully. Now I have to work on the sear as the hammer sometimes follows the slide and I still need to get a bit more oomppff behind the hammer in DA to reliably touch off primers.

 

[MiltonBradly]

YAY! Light strikes be gone!

I'm getting reliable ignition off of SA and DA after tweaking the hammer strut a bit. I found there was a significant amount of play between the hammer cross pin and strut notch when it is sitting idle after it has dropped. I ground down the hammer pivot pin notch in the strut until I have almost no dead space between the pin and strut at idle, this seems to have given the hammer the extra energy needed to light off primers in both modes

The DA mode seems quite heavy and everything needs a good polish to smooth it out but I'm happy to have achieved DA without too much agony.

I did have to do a lot of shaping to the trigger bar ramp to get DA cycling the hammer back as far as possible before tripping...

The only major issue now is working the sear a bit to ensure reliable latching of the hammer and eliminate the hammer occasionally following the slide. My trigger linkage drags a bit on the mag and I have lots of smoothing to do to get things feeling less crunchy.

All in all my kit has been fairly simple to assemble without any catastrophic problems. No doubt the info shared by every one who ran into problems has made the task dramatically simpler... My hammer stop required major shaping to fit but thankfully went in without damage thanks to the warnings of others

I think I'm at about four evenings of tinkering after the kids are in bed to get where I am... Maybe 15 hrs invested, granted I have done almost all my shaping and fitting with a small belt grinder so that has likely shaved hours off of doing it all with files. I haven't tackled the mag well ribs yet so I'm sure my time will go way up when I get to that.

MB

 

[joe-boy]

YAY! Light strikes be gone!

I'm getting reliable ignition off of SA and DA after tweaking the hammer strut a bit. I found there was a significant amount of play between the hammer cross pin and strut notch when it is sitting idle after it has dropped. I ground down the hammer pivot pin notch in the strut until I have almost no dead space between the pin and strut at idle, this seems to have given the hammer the extra energy needed to light off primers in both modes

Great tip MB !! Thanks ----- Soon as I read it I gave myself a forehead slap for not seeing it earlier. During my test fire I did not have any failures to fire, however I was concerned with the light firing pin imprint in the primer.

I attributed it entirely to my firing pin being improperly shaped. It is my intent to reshape my firing pin tip to a standard hemispherical shape, but I have tweeked my hammer strut per you post and I can see how this will improve the situation ! Thanks again

And as always, ( cause I like pictures ) here are some pics of what I'm talking about
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Weak primer strike

Firing pin

Firing pin tip close-up You can see how the tip is flat and not rounded, as it should be.

My DAC project's current status ...... I finally got my carbide tap and have tapped my lower grip screw holes. I have a supply of the 3.5 x 26mm roll pins for the slide/breech block, but I couldn't get any of the 2 x 26mm inner pins without buying 30 bucks worth. However I intend to try 5/64" diameter pins as a substitute as they are pretty close on paper.

I just have to sandblast my frame and slide before applying my Cerakote finish, but that will have to wait till my next days off.

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Edit:

I adjusted my firing pin tip to what I consider a better shape ..... hopefully this along with MiltonBradly's hammer strut rework will improve my firing pin strikes.

Before/After firing pin tip

 

[MiltonBradly]

I was concerned about the off center pin strikes at first when I wasn't getting reliable ignition. looks like yours hit the primer in the same area as mine...

I was really tempted to swap out the split pins for a solid drill shank. When I tapped out the retainer pin i was shocked at how arched it was from being installed. It looks like the holes through my breach block and slide aren't a straight line but a curve... what to do now ... ? ... might have to stick to split pins...

 

[effects]

I just today put 25 rounds through it using a piece of drill bit. I have ordered 20 split pins each of 3.5mm, 2mm and 5/64". I have an account at Fastenal and will have extras to go around when they come in. Although the order isn't processed yet, it looks like it will be about $7.00 plus tax for 60 pins (20 sets), LOL. Shows you the mark up when something is labeled "Pistol Part". LOL

Okay what is this about "the hammer pivot pin notch in the strut until I have almost no dead space between the pin and strut at idle". This sounds like something I would like to do. I had two failure to fire (not 3 as per the PM Joe-Boy). i will also radius my firing pin as per Joe-Boy's excellent photos as always.

 

[effects]

looks like yours hit the primer in the same area as mine...

Mine strikes off centre like that as well. I have radiused my firing pin like Joe-Boy's photo, because my firing pin was more shaped like a firing "rod". Just like the photos. Mine's all roundy now.

 

[MiltonBradly]

Okay what is this about "the hammer pivot pin notch in the strut until I have almost no dead space between the pin and strut at idle". This sounds like something I would like to do. I had two failure to fire (not 3 as per the PM Joe-Boy). i will also radius my firing pin as per Joe-Boy's excellent photos as always.

When you pull the trigger and the hammer strikes the pin/rebounds and comes to rest does it have some play or "dead space" between where it rests against the hammer strut and where the rebound spring stops pushing it back? If so that is unused space where the hammer could be getting power from the main spring if the strut was shaped a tiny bit different. I just put my gun back together after a general polishing of the internals but I'll try to snap a pic next time the strut is out.

Imagine the gun sitting on the table with the left side facing up (decock lever, take down toggle etc... facing up). Now picture the strut out of the gun oriented the same way... The left notch at the business end of the strut pushes against the hammer pivot pin when the hammer is at rest, the right notch engages the hammer cross pin when the hammer is drawn back. If the left notch (hammer pivot) were ground a little deeper down the right notch (cross pin) would engage the hammer sooner and eliminate any unnecessary "dead space" that could be contributing to pushing the hammer forward when it comes time to strike. The down side, more heavy trigger pull longer in DA mode.

Clear as mud, no?

HTH
MB

P.S. I am not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV... YMMV

 

[joe-boy]

Okay what is this about "the hammer pivot pin notch in the strut until I have almost no dead space between the pin and strut at idle". This sounds like something I would like to do.

With your sear in the safe notch, and you move the hammer back, is there a small amount of play before it starts to compress the hammer strut spring ? This is the "dead space" MiltonBradly was referring to.

The hammer strut drives the cross pin in the hammer causing it to rotate.

When the notch in the hammer strut contacts the hammer pivot pin, the spring is no longer 'driving' ..........

..... the hammer carries forward under inertia to hit the firing pin.

By deepening the notch in the hammer strut, you'll increase the duration the hammer is under power. Go to deep however and your hammer stop spring will not be able to return the hammer to the safe notch after firing.

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Edit: I see MiltonBradly beat me to the punch with the info

 

[effects]

Got it. Thanks guys! And my God Joe-Boy, you have to be under 30 years old to be able to take, manipulate, edit, add graphics and have them on this site so fast! Guys over thirty need reading glasses and a 14 year old son, to do that kind of work. LOL!

 

[effects]

My hammer has 2-3 mm of travel of dead space travel. This is worth taking out? YA?

 

[joe-boy]

Got it. Thanks guys! And my God Joe-Boy, you have to be under 30 years old to be able to take, manipulate, edit, add graphics and have them on this site so fast! Guys over thirty need reading glasses and a 14 year old son, to do that kind of work. LOL!

Yup, still under 30 .......... for the last 13 years and counting !!

My hammer has 2-3 mm of travel of dead space travel. This is worth taking out? YA?

I'm thinking so ......... but I haven't been to the range to try out these latest tweaks.

 

[MiltonBradly]

here is my post-mod strut...

The hammer notch is a bit deeper and more rounded than stock. I used Diamond burrs in my dremmel to shape it and a rubber polishing bob to smooth it out.

I have no slop at all in my linkage now. The return spring drives the hammer back until the cross pin contacts the strut and holds it there. The hammer is traveling back far enough for the trigger bar to drop in place for DA so I figure I'm getting maximum OOmmpphh out of the mainspring...

As a side note polishing the cross pin notch of the strut has improved the feel of DA a good bit for me. I still have some friction somewhere in the hammer linkage that can be felt when thumbing the hammer back but for the most part things are smoothing out nicely with a little internal polishing.

MB