Do you really need a magnum

Boomer686 said:
On a Moose hunt in 2018 I carried my trusty .308Win. Was presented with a *pile* of 400-500m shots on trophy sized bulls but each day we had very significant winds. Given the distance and the crosswinds it was not a shot I was comfortable making (I have no issue out to 500m with sensible winds and my .308W) . I managed to get my moose on the second last day of the hunt. I since bought a .300WM specifically for this reason which will accompany me on all my hunts of this nature going forward.

Environment, terrain and the animals you hunt will dictate your required gear best. I'm not specifically pro or con magnum calibers: I just see them as anther tool in my box.
Click to expand...

And what typically happens after buying that magnum expecting those longer shots, is that all your shots will end up being within range for standard cartridges. Been there done that and the day you leave your magnum at home is when your presented with a longer shot:p
 
dgradinaru said:
And what typically happens after buying that magnum expecting those longer shots, is that all your shots will end up being within range for standard cartridges. Been there done that and the day you leave your magnum at home is when your presented with a longer shot:p
Click to expand...

This happens regularly... this past fall, I sat on a brushy field edge where I often see the bucks passing through a bottleneck at 300 yards, so I brought my Ruger 6.5 Rem Mag. The buck appeared at 20 yards, so I put a 140 NBT through its lungs, it ran and tried to jump a fence but didn't have enough air to power it's legs and just bounced off and stood there, so I put another one through it from the other side. Unfortunately, due to the close range and high impact speed, the bullet damage was quite unfortuantely incredible. If the deer had been at the expected 300 yards, I would have expected perfect terminal performance. At 20 yards, I would have been better off with a .358 with 225 SP or .45-70 with 350 FNSP.

It is always a best guess... there is a case to be made for a middle-of-the-road set-up, when varying distances may be encountered.
 
hoytcanon said:
This happens regularly... this past fall, I sat on a brushy field edge where I often see the bucks passing through a bottleneck at 300 yards, so I brought my Ruger 6.5 Rem Mag. The buck appeared at 20 yards, so I put a 140 NBT through its lungs, it ran and tried to jump a fence but didn't have enough air to power it's legs and just bounced off and stood there, so I put another one through it from the other side. Unfortunately, due to the close range and high impact speed, the bullet damage was quite unfortuantely incredible. If the deer had been at the expected 300 yards, I would have expected perfect terminal performance. At 20 yards, I would have been better off with a .358 with 225 SP or .45-70 with 350 FNSP.

It is always a best guess... there is a case to be made for a middle-of-the-road set-up, when varying distances may be encountered.
Click to expand...

The one disadvantage of only having a magnum on hand is when you encounter short(er) range shots, with a fast expansion bullet. Avoid shoulder shots, or be prepared to lose some meat.
 
hoytcanon said:
This happens regularly... this past fall, I sat on a brushy field edge where I often see the bucks passing through a bottleneck at 300 yards, so I brought my Ruger 6.5 Rem Mag. The buck appeared at 20 yards, so I put a 140 NBT through its lungs, it ran and tried to jump a fence but didn't have enough air to power it's legs and just bounced off and stood there, so I put another one through it from the other side. Unfortunately, due to the close range and high impact speed, the bullet damage was quite unfortuantely incredible. If the deer had been at the expected 300 yards, I would have expected perfect terminal performance. At 20 yards, I would have been better off with a .358 with 225 SP or .45-70 with 350 FNSP.

It is always a best guess... there is a case to be made for a middle-of-the-road set-up, when varying distances may be encountered.
Click to expand...

Nosler ballistic tip is more the problem than anything.If you had used regular accubonds or something a bit tougher .Ballistic tips are fragile even in a standard caliber .
Here are some personal experiences you be the judge
Bull moose 120 yds broadside 5 shots with a 30-06 rem corelocks still walking to heavy willows .Out of ammo .Hand him my 338 bang flop same shot placement.
Same scenario this time bull Bison headed for a ravine but a 416 rem mag ,bounced straight down .
Bull elk with a herd headed to cross a river 140 Federal premium 200 yds 4 well placed shots still running stopped at 350yds 1 shot 340 wby mag 210 ttsx.That man bought a 340 wby after that day.
Do you need a magnum?I like them just fine .
 
G.E.FLACH said:
Nosler ballistic tip is more the problem than anything.If you had used regular accubonds or something a bit tougher .Ballistic tips are fragile even in a standard caliber .
Here are some personal experiences you be the judge
Bull moose 120 yds broadside 5 shots with a 30-06 rem corelocks still walking to heavy willows .Out of ammo .Hand him my 338 bang flop same shot placement.
Same scenario this time bull Bison headed for a ravine but a 416 rem mag ,bounced straight down .
Bull elk with a herd headed to cross a river 140 Federal premium 200 yds 4 well placed shots still running stopped at 350yds 1 shot 340 wby mag 210 ttsx.That man bought a 340 wby after that day.
Do you need a magnum?I like them just fine .
Click to expand...

The Ballistic Tip was not the problem... the impact speed due to extreme close range was the problem... I chose the cartridge and bullet for the anticipated 300 plus yard shot... had that shot occurred my choice would have been ideal. I have used the NBT in many cartridges on game for many years, and within it's design parameters it works very well. Conversely I have had the Accubond perform very poorly on long range goats and deer beyond 400 yards... which is why Nosler created the ABLR... designed to perform at lower impact speeds.

The point is, that your choice of cartridge and bullet and load is always a guessing game... you make your best guess for the anticipated scenario and then live with the end results.
 
Hoyt, do you think the same results would have happened with let say a 308 or 270? It seems like this “boring” calibers would be ok at shorter range as well as up to at least 300yards on deer but I never hunted deer so I don’t know!! I know my 30-06 on moose and caribou’s it does the same at 60m than it does at 180m! But deers are lighter and more springy if I can say so!
 
^ I took a follow up shot on a bear at ~35 metres with a 270 with a cup and core 130 grain bullet and damn near blew its front leg off .
 
This is one of those Ford vs Chevy things, or maybe more like a Toyota vs Full Size things. Everyone certainly seems to be in one camp or another, and again, the regions, areas, and methods that folks hunt are certainly a determining factor. Hoyt has a point. This isn't golf. You can't really drag a bag full of rifles out, and then pick the best one for the shot that presents itself. Hunting here, and the methods used, certainly more is better...until it isn't.

R.
 
Mik123 said:
I'd rather take a rifle cartridge.
Click to expand...

A matter of choice, i often end up dogging for my boys on WT hunt, i got a fair number of big bucks i downed while they tried to flew de dogging push.

The big wise buck will make a 360 and comeback in your back if it got the space.
The 44 mag in thick forest and bush at duck hunting distance is superior to many rifle caliber. I call it my closer.
 
conor_90 said:
^ I took a follow up shot on a bear at ~35 metres with a 270 with a cup and core 130 grain bullet and damn near blew its front leg off .
Click to expand...

Yeah, that illustrates the point... a 130 from a .270 is moving right along... so the soft bullet at close range is over it's ideal operational velocity range, but the same bullet might perform with a perfect doubling mushroom at 250 yards. In that case a bonded bullet would have helped, as would a heavier bullet at lower speed... we can't be perfect in every situation... as long as the animal is dispatched as quickly and humanely as possible, we can't kick too much about the other fall-out of a bad guess. In some circumstances, there is no good reason for guessing wrong... here are two (general) examples;

1. Baited bear hunt; due to the anticipated close range, trajectory is not an issue, nor is penetration at close range... so a heavy cup and core traveling at moderate speed is ideal, also good would be a ultra heavy slug traveling at relatively low speed ie. 405 grain cast bullet at 1700 fps from a .45-70. What would be a bad choice is something like a 7mm Rem Mag with a light 130 grain frangible SST or NBT at high speed... I have seen a 200 pound bear shot three times with that exact set-up and the bear was literally a jelly sack, we saved the shoulder mount and a couple roasts... granted shot angle and bullet placement also came into play in that scenario, which it often does.

2. Mountain Goat Hunt; due to the high likelihood of extreme distance shooting that may be required, a solid or bonded bullet is not required and may actually cause an issue of not anchoring a goat quickly when it is standing on a cliff ledge or other inopportune location. Here a non-bonded ballistic tip or cup and core can be just the ticket from a fast, flat shooting cartridge, when the range is likely to be in excess of 300 yards. The same 7mm Rem Mag with 130 NBT that was a terrible choice for a baited bear hunt is now an excellent choice in this scenario.
 
Yes, the initial shot took out the top of both lungs at around 150 yards exactly as intended. I followed up too quickly as it was the end of legal light in grizzly country. When I came up on it, it stood and lurched at me so I point shot it and hit the proximal end of the humerus and it gave up the fight.

Some would describe that as a “ charge” but it was a small bear I shot out of a desire for sausage so it seems pretty grandiose to say that, it also covered about 20 cms of distance before I shot it the second time

Next time out I took my 338 wm, heart shot with a bonded 225 at ~220 metres. Was smart enough to wait that time. It ran a few steps to a break in slope and rolled ~5 metres down it, the fabled “ dead right there” I’m sure the 270 would have had an identical effect

Similarly I shot a large muley with a 225 hornady cup and core and hit it slightly high and it did a sort of sideways backflip and died, not sure a 130 270 would have done that…


I’m a sufferer of the “ heavier bullets at the same velocity” strain of magnumitis and the affliction does not seem to be abating
 
Last edited:
460 wby is one of the few calibers that scares me.

I remember a ph ordered some in when I worked at a gun counter, even back then they were around 200 a box and incredibly impressive looking. He said they were great for hippos
 
dgradinaru said:
And what typically happens after buying that magnum expecting those longer shots, is that all your shots will end up being within range for standard cartridges. Been there done that and the day you leave your magnum at home is when your presented with a longer shot:p
Click to expand...


True enough lol: However, on this style hunt we use sxs for most of our travel; I can legally carry multiple firearms (as long as only one is out and available at a time). If I am presented with a more difficult shot then just case the .308 & take out the .300WM.

This fall my oldest will be allowed to hunt big game so I will carry one and he the other so all bases covered!
 
One can always replace some of their 70 rounds and shotgun with another rifle, provided they are willing to give up their 60 signalling shots
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom