lol. Ya.
FBI replacing .40cal with 9mm?
- Thread starter illumined
- Start date
lol. Ya.
Pure Energy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A river runs through it.
Not sure, but I assume you were referring to my post above? If you were, I was saying where is the proof that an expensive 1911 shoots more accurately than a cheaper production pistol of any brand. You could have the most expensive pistol in the world and still shoot like #### if you don't know how to use it.
Could well be the case.
I know when the Calgary police switched to glocks in the mid to early 90s they had some issues so to say sorry for the problems all Calgary police glocks come with a custom serial number. CPS****
I don't know why 9mm lovers (I have a few myself) are so hurt over the .40 and want to do anything to detract from it. It's a different caliber. Big freaking deal. It has performed well enough to be adopted by many law enforcement agencies and even required to be used in BC by non-RCMP police units.
Jeez, it's like watching a ####zu go crazy and start barking when a bigger dog casually walks into the room.
Jeez, it's like watching a ####zu go crazy and start barking when a bigger dog casually walks into the room.
The problem is the rabid ignorant following that the pro 40 crowd exude. 40 offers very very little in the way of advantages over 9mm. The very well marketed 40 was sold to pencil pushers and less informed decision makers. Rather than teach officers to shoot better the solution is a new wonder calibre with greater "stopping power". A term that clearly indicates the individual using it hasn't a clue of what they speak.
Tdc
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
9 is fine, but .45 is Devine.
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Well, in personal testing, and I believe this to be relevant in today's law enforcement arena, the 9mm will not incapacitate a subject shot in common issue duty body plates. At 5 yards .40 delivers a resoundingly bigger hit to my body armour and it's reason enough for me to want to leave the 9 and upsize. .40 and .45 both deliver what I would consider rib crushing damage. At 5 yards, the 10 mm completely penetrates the armour with a 135 Nosler and 155 Hornadys that are handloaded to real 10mm performance levels. Nancy factory Federal loads do not, but deliver a similar crushing hit as .40. Surprisingly, 200 grn Nosler rounds do not penetrate, but what it did to the body armour on hitting scares crap out of me. I believe the energy transferred would simply kill the target. This is all personal opinion. But it backs up that Ten is for men.
Cool story bro.
I would never, ever count on any type of incapacitation from a pistol shot that didn't even penetrate the target's skin.
Ever see a guy get a solid punch in the ribcage?
Did he look like he couldn't return fire?
Same thing. If I was so committed to a violent crime I was armoured up, I assure you it would take more than a knock on the ribs to stop me from carrying out my goals.
Guys take fatal gunshots and keep fighting for a minute.
Please do not count on a cracked rib.
Ever see a guy get a solid punch in the ribcage?
Did he look like he couldn't return fire?
Same thing. If I was so committed to a violent crime I was armoured up, I assure you it would take more than a knock on the ribs to stop me from carrying out my goals.
Guys take fatal gunshots and keep fighting for a minute.
Please do not count on a cracked rib.
I understand.
But the anecdotes don't line up with the science, at all.
I shoot .45 and 10mm for fun.
They are not significantly more effective than 9mm.
In fact, the 9mm performs better against soft armour than 40 or 45.
The 10mm loads that beat the 9mm on armour are terrible carry loads that overpenetrate and underexpand.
9mm makes sense for LE.
I really don't know why I'm contributing to this thread.
But the anecdotes don't line up with the science, at all.
I shoot .45 and 10mm for fun.
They are not significantly more effective than 9mm.
In fact, the 9mm performs better against soft armour than 40 or 45.
The 10mm loads that beat the 9mm on armour are terrible carry loads that overpenetrate and underexpand.
9mm makes sense for LE.
I really don't know why I'm contributing to this thread.
Dude hearing the term 'rabid ignorant following' from you is hilarious.... at least the rabid part as your posts seldom exude ignorance.
9mm is effective and inexpensive, 40 is also effective but has more recoil and costs slightly more. Both are adequate defensive and competition calibres. No matter what you shoot, you should train.
Shoot what you want but don't be a zealot....
Agree, this thread is annoying...
They have training for that, it's called "shoot them in the face if they're wearing armour"
Both calibers are capable, so why waste the money on 40? It costs more, you carry fewer rounds, follow up shots take more time and it is hard on guns. Where's the plus side?
Tdc
Actually in BC, a judge with no previous firearms experience decided he would order all municipal forces to carry the 40 cal, based on the recommendation of a guy from the VPD.
Who was the guy who owned Second Chance Body Armour in the '80's - Richard something or other. He used to shoot himself point blank in the vest with a 44 magnum at various gunshows - he even shot himself with an FN once. If 44 mag won't break a rib from 3 inches, 40 has no chance either.
More anecdote and even less help:
I used to hate my .40 S&W Glock 22 as a carry gun. It occasionally jammed with practice ammo, seemed inaccurate, and was big. Now that I no longer carry anything bigger than a pen, I have re-discovered the .40 Glocks and so far have a 27 and a 23 which both SEEM more accurate than their Glock 26 and Glock 19 cousins. The Glock 23 shines particularly well with a .357 SIG barrel -- I have never shot any pistol cartridge that is more accurate at 20 meters. The .40 S&W also somehow shoots "better" and forces me to shoot more accurate groups. It could be all that extra recoil, which makes you pay attention. But .40 S&W is a very accurate round.
Nobody shot locally with the .40 S&W has made even one step closer to the LEO that shot them. They may have stood in place and swayed for an annoyingly long time before collapsing, but not one step, not one threat, not one bit. Not all of them died, but all of them stopped. Some crashed their cars, but the threat ended when the trigger was pulled. Good ammo, good training, and Glocks.
Frankly, if I had to carry a pistol, it would be my Glock 23 with the .357 SIG setup. Yes, there's lots of blast and noise, but by Gosh, you're going to hit what you're aiming at and stop it, even if it's hiding behind a car or the corner of a house. And two to the chest, one to the head with almost any caliber will defeat most villains in vests, unless the wearer is a turtle.
I used to hate my .40 S&W Glock 22 as a carry gun. It occasionally jammed with practice ammo, seemed inaccurate, and was big. Now that I no longer carry anything bigger than a pen, I have re-discovered the .40 Glocks and so far have a 27 and a 23 which both SEEM more accurate than their Glock 26 and Glock 19 cousins. The Glock 23 shines particularly well with a .357 SIG barrel -- I have never shot any pistol cartridge that is more accurate at 20 meters. The .40 S&W also somehow shoots "better" and forces me to shoot more accurate groups. It could be all that extra recoil, which makes you pay attention. But .40 S&W is a very accurate round.
Nobody shot locally with the .40 S&W has made even one step closer to the LEO that shot them. They may have stood in place and swayed for an annoyingly long time before collapsing, but not one step, not one threat, not one bit. Not all of them died, but all of them stopped. Some crashed their cars, but the threat ended when the trigger was pulled. Good ammo, good training, and Glocks.
Frankly, if I had to carry a pistol, it would be my Glock 23 with the .357 SIG setup. Yes, there's lots of blast and noise, but by Gosh, you're going to hit what you're aiming at and stop it, even if it's hiding behind a car or the corner of a house. And two to the chest, one to the head with almost any caliber will defeat most villains in vests, unless the wearer is a turtle.
