Gun Club Qualifications?

[New2U]

I can not believe some of these replies, I am an RSO at a few ranges and have seen many bad habits with new and old shooters. RO or SO's really do not hover and are there to make shooting fun and safe. 12 shoots is not unreasonable.
it makes a new shooter very comfortable with failure to feed, fire, extract, proper technique, stance. sight picture.
so you can move to a bigger bore with confidence. I do not think anyone should go get an rpal and buy a .45 and just go bang off rounds with no experience. you can get into some serious trouble with dble taps, squibs, there are alot of know it all internet readers, new reloaders, in the over all picture newbies should practice with smaller caliber first . now with an experienced shooter moving from one club to another. you still should evaluate his skills as I have seen some real stupid actions by experienced and I say that with a grain of salt. it takes one mishap to tarnish a clubs name or one person. this thread for example. we should encourage safe, fun shooting and gun ownership. as of we do not need media, cfo or anti-gun lobbyist, politicians having one excuse to set us backwards. we have enough of stupid laws i.e. ATT prohibs. blackguns, scary guns. LMAO that what we should focus on. not club rules and not joining. as far as mishaps in clubs. we do not want that info anyways on the net. and if you have never seen any funky stuff happen you have not been to the range enough or get involved. that little thing that comes out of any barrel should hit what you are pointing it at if not you need to practice.

I support everything muddog says in this thread.
They purposely don’t regularly clean club’s guns, so you’ll have to deal with all kind of malfunctions during your probationary shots which allows less experience shooters to learn to deal with it in a safe and calm manner. The range is supervised only for 3hrs on 2 days in a week for the sake of probationary shooters. After you qualify with their .22, they will get an ATT for you and a key to the range so you can bring a HAND gun of ANY caliber you own ANY time for your shooting pleasure. So, if you owned a range, would you hand out keys to it to anybody just because they have an RPAL?

 

[mmattockx]

Well, all I was trying to say is that I didn't see any harm in it but to each his own...

The harm is that it puts yet another unnecessary barrier in the way of new people getting into the sport.

Besides going to the range and learning from experienced shooters?

That has worked for decades in Alberta, why should Ontario be any different?

I can not believe some of these replies, I am an RSO at a few ranges and have seen many bad habits with new and old shooters. RO or SO's really do not hover and are there to make shooting fun and safe. 12 shoots is not unreasonable.

Once again, an Ontario shooter.

I support everything muddog says in this thread.
They purposely don’t regularly clean club’s guns, so you’ll have to deal with all kind of malfunctions during your probationary shots which allows less experience shooters to learn to deal with it in a safe and calm manner. The range is supervised only for 3hrs on 2 days in a week for the sake of probationary shooters. After you qualify with their .22, they will get an ATT for you and a key to the range so you can bring a HAND gun of ANY caliber you own ANY time for your shooting pleasure. So, if you owned a range, would you hand out keys to it to anybody just because they have an RPAL?

Again, Ontario. Just for your information, every range I have been a member at or shot at in the last 30 years would let you bring a handgun of ANY calibre and shoot it ANY time without a single probationary shoot, ATT course or anything. My previous range operated exactly as you describe. Pay for your membership, sign a form stating you had read the range rules and then they handed you the key. My current range makes you sit through a short orientation course that explains the range rules, safety equipment locations and expected range etiquette to be displayed by members and their guests. No probationary anything at either range, just a reminder to behave in a safe manner and respect others.

The reality is that like gun control, club level BS courses and rules are there to make you feel good, as opposed to accomplish something.

Amen.


Mark

 

[Smcx]

Probation and probationary shoots are a pain in the ass.

I totally agree with it though. It provides at least a little mentoring, and I for one feel safer after seeing some of the dangerous firearm handling noobness when doing my rpal. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[dallasm]

Well said Mark! Using safety (12 shoots!!) at the club level as an excuse to make it even more challenging for new folks to enter this sport is offensive and I would work hard to not join such a club. Besides, I've shot with folks from Ontario - they don't deserve this extra level of scrutiny!!

 

[Rupert]

The original issue isn't the probationary shoots, I can understand proving safety etc, even though those clubs guns were quite worse for wear, maybe even unsafe. Guns typically shouldn't misfire, hang fire, have squibs etc, in general, perhaps especially when teaching a new shooter!

My original issue was qualifying with different calibers by hitting a target at 20m, 20/20 times. This is what I found to be absurd. It did nothing but push myself and another potential member from leaving after our probationary shoots and discouraged my sister from even applying.

To those who say there aren't, isn't or haven't been any qualification rules are wrong or mistaken because there were when I was a probationary shooter. Things may be different now 3 years later but that is how it was.

Long story short I found two other clubs not far from home and everything worked out well in the end!

 

[graydog]

All these rules can be good or bad depending on the person. If they want to listen and learn they will and if they don't they won't, they will just do what they have to do to pass the test and then do what they want to do.

If you don't beleive this look at all the new drivers coming on the roads every year.

Graydog

 

[Gatehouse]

I can not believe some of these replies, I am an RSO at a few ranges and have seen many bad habits with new and old shooters. RO or SO's really do not hover and are there to make shooting fun and safe. 12 shoots is not unreasonable.
it makes a new shooter very comfortable with failure to feed, fire, extract, proper technique, stance. sight picture.
so you can move to a bigger bore with confidence. I do not think anyone should go get an rpal and buy a .45 and just go bang off rounds with no experience. you can get into some serious trouble with dble taps, squibs, there are alot of know it all internet readers, new reloaders, in the over all picture newbies should practice with smaller caliber first . now with an experienced shooter moving from one club to another. you still should evaluate his skills as I have seen some real stupid actions by experienced and I say that with a grain of salt. it takes one mishap to tarnish a clubs name or one person. this thread for example. we should encourage safe, fun shooting and gun ownership. as of we do not need media, cfo or anti-gun lobbyist, politicians having one excuse to set us backwards. we have enough of stupid laws i.e. ATT prohibs. blackguns, scary guns. LMAO that what we should focus on. not club rules and not joining. as far as mishaps in clubs. we do not want that info anyways on the net. and if you have never seen any funky stuff happen you have not been to the range enough or get involved. that little thing that comes out of any barrel should hit what you are pointing it at if not you need to practice.

That's exactly what I did...Well, there was no PAL system then, but I had an FAC that cost $10 at the RCMP office. No formal training. Bought a .45ACP and took it shooting. Had a blast. 25 years later and never shot anyone. I did end up buying some .22 and 9mm pistols later, but I started with a .45.

I think somemore experienced gun owners think that newbies are all stupid. Truth is, safely shooting a firearm is easier than safely riding a bicycle. It's really doesn't have to be blown out of proportion.

 

[muddog]

you have an official invitation to come shoot anytime with me, Long gun or handgun. Us Ontarians, We shoot to hit what we point at. lol another thing at aurora is that most of us like to shoot at the 25 meter 83ft as 50ft is what most clubs shoot at, like I said before this sport is all about marksmanship and knowing that you can be comfortable and have fun safely.

Well said Mark! Using safety (12 shoots!!) at the club level as an excuse to make it even more challenging for new folks to enter this sport is offensive and I would work hard to not join such a club. Besides, I've shot with folks from Ontario - they don't deserve this extra level of scrutiny!!

 

[muddog]

it is 25 meters, and it should not discourage you as it should challenge you. there is a huge membership there and everyone has qualified from 8yr olds up. and yes you do get squibs, misfires and hangfires etc. that is an inexperienced quote. if you shoot enough, you will run into
certain issues. from a new gun issue. i.e, FTE for example sticking semi wads in my kimber gold match 2 that gun does not like them, again the issue with a newbie going out buy a gun from CGN and someone has Frankenstein it, sear mod, lighter or stronger springs you get problems,
happens! no big deal if you have practiced safety and are comfie, if you reload, could have a squib or double charge or head separation,happens! why shoot a gun if you cannot control the muzzle and hit what you are shooting. come shoot my ruger super blackhawk with 22grains of 2400 and hit a target at 50ft. good luck lol

The original issue isn't the probationary shoots, I can understand proving safety etc, even though those clubs guns were quite worse for wear, maybe even unsafe. Guns typically shouldn't misfire, hang fire, have squibs etc, in general, perhaps especially when teaching a new shooter!

My original issue was qualifying with different calibers by hitting a target at 20m, 20/20 times. This is what I found to be absurd. It did nothing but push myself and another potential member from leaving after our probationary shoots and discouraged my sister from even applying.

To those who say there aren't, isn't or haven't been any qualification rules are wrong or mistaken because there were when I was a probationary shooter. Things may be different now 3 years later but that is how it was.

Long story short I found two other clubs not far from home and everything worked out well in the end!

 

[muddog]

I do agree with you as most are great first shooters, but again all I say it takes one problem to taint a clubs reputation, you give the CFO, politicians, anti-gun lobbyist a reason to either make new rules or worse close a club, we do not need this. 12 shoots is not that bad really for a new shooter.

That's exactly what I did...Well, there was no PAL system then, but I had an FAC that cost $10 at the RCMP office. No formal training. Bought a .45ACP and took it shooting. Had a blast. 25 years later and never shot anyone. I did end up buying some .22 and 9mm pistols later, but I started with a .45.

I think somemore experienced gun owners think that newbies are all stupid. Truth is, safely shooting a firearm is easier than safely riding a bicycle. It's really doesn't have to be blown out of proportion.

 

[shawn]

I have to agree that the longer this thread goes on the more apparent it becomes that this is some ONT social engineering BS. I can’t believe some of the posters that are pro this BS can post this stuff with a straight face. Or we are getting trolled hard lol

Shawn

 

[shawn]

I do agree with you as most are great first shooters, but again all I say it takes one problem to taint a clubs reputation, you give the CFO, politicians, anti-gun lobbyist a reason to either make new rules or worse close a club, we do not need this. 12 shoots is not that bad really for a new shooter.

Yes it is a bad thing.

What we dont need is clubs making up this crap feel good BS stuff and running to the CFO and saying look how great and safe we are. Then what do you think happens? It becomes policy.

Another question. How much does the range charge for these qualification shoots? Just another thing to think about.

Shawn

 

[Onagoth]

WTF is the point of that? How the hell are you supposed to hit a 25m target if you can't even join a gun club to practice handgun shooting?

 

[muddog]

it cost is nothing, just your .22's,
you are missing the point, this thread started out as what it took to qualify for to become at a specific club. then it became a debate what is a good club or bad club as per club rules and qualification to new members. All I am saying is it is never a bad thing to effectively have a probational period for new members to learn safety and practice accuracy to become comfortable
with types of actions and the problems that can arise with firearms and is best done with a .22
at this time during your 12 shoots develop your accuracy through stance, sight picture, grip, trigger pull, flinching. all that fun stuff you call BS. I call it having someone when you first start to help you have fun, if you are not a know it all, tostart off with good habits. think of it as training , lol but maybe I forgot who needs training to shoot any gun well or understand all action and safeties and unloading, LMAO come on really! I bet you bring some of your buddies to the range give them any caliber and walk away and say here shoot.

Yes it is a bad thing.

What we dont need is clubs making up this crap feel good BS stuff and running to the CFO and saying look how great and safe we are. Then what do you think happens? It becomes policy.

Another question. How much does the range charge for these qualification shoots? Just another thing to think about.

Shawn

 

[Onagoth]

I bet you bring some of your buddies to the range give them any caliber and walk away and say here shoot.

Our club does that every year....its called our open house and over the course of one weekend we allow over 1500+ people (typically unlicensed) to shoot whatever guns they want (anything from 22LR to 50BMG, 50 AE, 44 mag, whatever goes). Its all supervised of course, but no one is required to prove proficiency first.

Our open house is probably the best event in Canada for introducing new people to firearms


BUt I'm sure some will say that its a disaster waiting to happen and clearly not safe enough. And surely, it will be the oldest FUDD gun owners out there

 

[muddog]

LOL, seriously you have to read the thread before commenting, this is why this has thread just went back and forth. 12 shoots 25 meters, bed sheet size target, .22 caliber semi's or revolver.
everyone passes as very easy. then you can bring your gun of choice and shoot at any distance.
now is that nice? there is no pressure, shoot as much as you like. if you can not qualify, lmao I think it is better if you stick with a .22 IMHO, 8 yr olds do it. if you like to shoot at 15ft join the police force you only have to hit a huge target once out of ten shots to qualify. Sorry for being sarcastic but this is getting old.

WTF is the point of that? How the hell are you supposed to hit a 25m target if you can't even join a gun club to practice handgun shooting?

 

[muddog]

This is not a thread that is about rights to own and keep a firearm, I am with everyone on this issue of stupid backdoor crap.
This is about joining a club, a club is to practice using a firearm long gun or handgun to shoot it accurately, being for hunting to make sure the animal does not suffer, any discipline you have an interest in. or just plain have FUN, all the above done without incident so we can keep a positive record when their are the anti's that hover over law abiding gun owners. all we hear is the negatives from media, just one thing to do with a firearm and it is front page.

 

[shawn]

This is not a thread that is about rights to own and keep a firearm, I am with everyone on this issue of stupid backdoor crap.
This is about joining a club, a club is to practice using a firearm long gun or handgun to shoot it accurately, being for hunting to make sure the animal does not suffer, any discipline you have an interest in. or just plain have FUN, all the above done without incident so we can keep a positive record when their are the anti's that hover over law abiding gun owners. all we hear is the negatives from media, just one thing to do with a firearm and it is front page.

All of which is nothing but feel good fluff as proved by the hundreds of thousands of shooters shooting all year long in places where all that is required is to pay dues.

That is the point, it is doing something just to say you are doing something with no or extremely small benefit. Cough LGR cough

Shawn

 

[enefgee]

Our club's open day is open to children too, as long as they're with an adult - there are few things as cute as a 7 year old girl firing a 9mm Storm, or 223 AR. No previous experience required. Our PPC section runs a 2 day course on PPC shooting twice a year (no license required, no handgun required, no membership required) to teach the basics of PPC pistol shooting to people who want to try pistol shooting. Not required, some folks take the course and don't shoot again and for others it changes their life. But it's not mandatory, neither is a holster course, probationary shoots, club safety course, etc. Our goal is to encourage new shooters, not make them feel like a danger to society.

 

[Rupert]

LOL, seriously you have to read the thread before commenting, this is why this has thread just went back and forth. 12 shoots 25 meters, bed sheet size target, .22 caliber semi's or revolver.
everyone passes as very easy. then you can bring your gun of choice and shoot at any distance.
now is that nice? there is no pressure, shoot as much as you like. if you can not qualify, lmao I think it is better if you stick with a .22 IMHO, 8 yr olds do it. if you like to shoot at 15ft join the police force you only have to hit a huge target once out of ten shots to qualify. Sorry for being sarcastic but this is getting old.

When I was there members had to "qualify" to shoot calibers larger than .22 after the probationary shoots.