Higher End AR's Question

Jerry Champagne said:
Do you not believe that theirs a direct correlation between materials used and performance of the rifle
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There is a correlation with between materials but not price. Example: a stainless bull barrel is going to be less expensive than a CHF chrome lined barrel but it will shoot smaller groups.

He simply asked about accuracy and that is probably the most important thing since in Canada AR15s are nothing more than range toys.

A less expensive bull barrel AR15 with a good trigger will get tighter groups than a Daniel Defense but I would way rather have a DD in a defensive situation. That's just the way it is.
 
Barrel quality, accessories, fitment, trigger, etc....these are things where price usually gets you something better.

I don't know why jp gets left out of the premium category, but they are fine rifles
 
Onagoth said:
Barrel quality, accessories, fitment, trigger, etc....these are things where price usually gets you something better.

I don't know why jp gets left out of the premium category, but they are fine rifles
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They are gamer guns, if you want one they are good for the job, they don't hold a candle to a mil spec gun for reliability, neat rifles lots of attention to detail, and finely made, but a mil spec gun it isn't.

Jerry Champagne said:
Do you not believe that theirs a direct correlation between materials used and performance of the rifle
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Sure, but performance doesn't solely sit around accuracy. Your kac will group well, but there are cheaper guns that will group as well, where they will fail is under hard use, and they will break parts sooner, and in general will not last as long. Or their accuracy will degrade faster.

SigWig said:
Get a diemaco/colt Canada IUR.

DD if you're tight on money or you want to be able to cross the boarder with it, 16"+

Everything else is overpriced, junk or both.
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I can tell you right now that cc is overpriced. Great guns, love mine but they are overpriced. And in many instances the daniel defense is the better option mostly because you can outfit one with a lighter barrel and handguard combo. Not to mention the more modular handguard options. There is nothing junk about bcm or stag or colt usa or as Armourall mentioned LMT.

Armourall said:
I guess my LMT is a piece of junk??????
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Crap I totally forgot LMT. Ironic seeing my 20inch cc upper has a lmt bcg. Thanks for the reminder
 
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Typically the more you pay for a rifle the better the quality of the entire package. This usually includes a nicer trigger, better coatings, nicer furniture, better quality barrel and BCG, better materials testing, better fitment, and better sights (if it comes with them). You will usually also be getting a rifle that the manufacturer has actually spent some time on R&D balancing the gas port to the recoil system and matching them to the barrel length to create a smooth operating rifle that is reliable but not beating itself up by being overgassed like most cheaper rifles.

I bought a Daniel Defense LPK for one of my builds and the trigger was not nice. It was typical mil-spec gritty but was getting smoother as triggers do from being used, I replaced it with an ALG single stage nickel boron unit that was great from day one.
My PWS AR has over 5000 rounds through it and has never had a broken part, never had a failure that wasn't corrected by seating the mag correctly and operating the charge handle again. After all those rounds there is also very little visible wear on the inside of the receiver and on the BCG. There is wear but not as much as some of my cheaper guns that have less than half the rounds through them.

Every person must decide for themselves just how much they are willing to pay for these improvements. For the average user it's probably not needed but some may feel it's worth it. I don't regret spending as much as I did for the PWS but I also have just as much fun with my builds that cost me half what the PWS cost.
 
I have owned pretty much every AR mentioned here, in multiple variations, IMHO:

1. JP - Best overall quality and accuracy. Competition models are not built for combat under adverse conditions.
2. KAC - Best factory package with Glock reliability, and enhancements not available in other AR's.
3. Colt Canada / LMT / Noveske
4. Colt USA / DD / FN USA / BCM
5. Armalite / Windham / Bushmaster
6. NEA / Norinco
 
I could care less which one is the most accurate or the fanciest.

But a diemaco will last, I know that from experience. Thats why I bought mine.
 
#### Proenneke said:
I have owned pretty much every AR mentioned here, in multiple variations, IMHO:

1. JP - Best overall quality and accuracy. Competition models are not built for combat under adverse conditions.
2. KAC - Best factory package with Glock reliability, and enhancements not available in other AR's.
3. Colt Canada / LMT / Noveske
4. Colt USA / DD / FN USA / BCM
5. Armalite / Windham / Bushmaster
6. NEA / Norinco
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I rate Norinco at number 5.thanks
 
Still alive said:
For your $1350 price range, one name... Daniel Defense.
$1800 ish then Colt Diemaco, Colt USA.
$2200+ Noveske, VLTOR, LMT, Knights Armament, Christiansen Arms.
Less than $1000. Just about everything else.
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I would argue that the DD's and CC's are about there same price now that current model DD's are selling closer to the $2,000 mark or more.

Obviously not an apples to apples comparison what with DD offering numerous barrel/model choices and CC only offering two 'Old Skool' models (albeit extremely high quality 'Old Skool' designs) as complete rifles.

To the OP perhaps Stag is a brand worth looking into for a decent AR rifle in your price range that actually comes with a very good warranty while appearing to be well respected here at CGN (from what I've read here as I've never shot/owned a Stag).

I had the option last year of buying a new DD (purchased M4V7) or a CC, picked the DD based on a $600 savings over the CC SA20. However that DD pricing is long gone and now most DD's are closer to $2,000 after taxes (which is CC territory).

Also I wouldn't confuse a USA Colt as being the equal of Canadian Colt or even a Daniel Defense for that matter, due to the USA Colt's inferior barrels (Not Cold Hammer Forged like CC and DD), yet they are still a fine AR.

All this talk asking what is better direct impingement (DI) or piston is like asking which is transmission is better in a 4x4 manual or automatic; or which AR rifle is better is like asking which truck is better Ford, Chevy or Dodge. They all have their good and bad points whether it be availability, accuracy or reliability and of course price along with numerous other factors...


Tnsaf I'd suggest you figure out your intended use of your AR rifle: expected ammo. usage per month/year, plinking at the range, shooting distance(s), plans to compete and if so what discipline (CQB/3-Gun/SR...) and then ask for assistance based on a budget that is to include not only the rifle, but sites/optic(s), number of mag.'s and any other kit required.

Then after hearing some options research the heck out of everything AR for at least #6 months and then buy the best you can afford; or pick up an affordable starter AR like a Norinco or S+W MP15 (or other -$1,000 AR rifle since they hold their value well if cared for) now and learn what you want/need first hand.

Just my .02 cents. As I was in your position a few years back and the more I read and learned from the many more knowledgeable then I here at CGN the more my understanding grew and my mind changed on what was actually needed plus what was best in the AR market.

Cheers D
 
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