Hunting Accuracy?

Everybody wants "1 ragged hole" accuracy but required accuracy depends on what quarry is being hunted and at what ranges ... hunting moose in dense Ontario brush and pronghorns on the prairies have different requirements for the hunter & firearm ... I have a venerable old Ruger M77 MKII "All Weather" stainless steel bolt action with the original black "Zytel" paddle stock in 300 Win Mag that has filled my freezer for decades ... it has shot moose in timber clear cuts from over 400 yds away and moose as close as 15 yds in a cedar swamp ... of course all rifles shoot 1/2 MOA online:sneaky: ... my M77 gives me a honest, repeatable 1.5 MOA or less 3-shot group @ 100 yds from sandbags with the factory ammo I use ... plenty accurate for my purposes
 
I feel for you guys living in 1984 "Oceania" (east of Quebec border) ... kicked out of the bush and Liberals eying your guns ... Ontario is not there YET ... I repeat ... YET
Ontario is where it all started. Maybe not in northern rural areas, but southern Ontario politicians and socialists, were trying to declare Ontario a "GUN FREE ZONE" over the mainstream media. Just type in Sheila Copps and gun free zone into your browser.
 
Ontario is where it all started. Maybe not in northern rural areas, but southern Ontario politicians and socialists, were trying to declare Ontario a "GUN FREE ZONE" over the mainstream media. Just type in Sheila Copps and gun free zone into your browser.
Despite the "woke up the ying yang" urban politics in Ontario there are oodles of upland game/duck/deer/bear/moose hunters down there and elsewhere in the province that big Dougie Ford doesn't want to offend
 
Despite the "woke up the ying yang" urban politics in Ontario there are oodles of upland game/duck/deer/bear/moose hunters down there and elsewhere in the province that big Dougie Ford doesn't want to offend
What makes you think that's a good argument? There may be a lot of you in Ontario, but that certainly isn't unique in Canada. You need to get away from home more often.
 
An eight to ten inch group at 400 yds, more often than not going to be a gut shot or wounded animal getting away to die a horrible death.
Hence the shooting form the truck window inside a nice warm cab or a/c cab dependant on outside conditions.
If it is a wounded animal one would be able to drive across the stubble and track it that much quicker ;) .
*Btw, my comment is tongue in cheek as there is no emote for such.
 
I agree, it's unrealistic to expect a rifle intended for hunting anything, other than gophers, to need or be able to maintain acceptable ten round groups.

The only issues I have with the OP's post are "IF" he intends to shoot out of the truck window, and the ranges he's willing to shoot.

An eight to ten inch group at 400 yds, more often than not going to be a gut shot or wounded animal getting away to die a horrible death.
I have a 10 inch practice plate at 280. I hunt under 200, offhand or kneeling. Many one bullet/tag seasons. Never out the window. It actually takes a long time to aim the truck to get comfy. Completely impractical. Recently beat on an IPSC at 950 with a GoBalistic barreled WSM out the window. Had to see what the old M70 had left after 44 years and 4500 rounds.
 
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Hence the shooting form the truck window inside a nice warm cab or a/c cab dependant on outside conditions.
If it is a wounded animal one would be able to drive across the stubble and track it that much quicker ;) .
*Btw, my comment is tongue in cheek as there is no emote for such.
From your past posts, I didn't expect anything less, no worries.

Some folks here don't know your past posts and expressed attitudes, so I was just clarifying it for them.

I know people who feel ten inch groups at 100yds are fine, because they're only shooting 50yds or less from their barn window or loft. They shoot once or twice a year, usually at the game they want to put in the freezer.

One fellow told me this morning, he had to buy another box of 30-30 ammo for his "Dad's" old rifle. This fellow is at least 70. The last box of ammo he purchased was 15 years ago, and he's taken a Deer every year, the odd year taking two, because he didn't want the fawn to be on its own.

He was overwhelmed by the cost of a box of 20 rounds, which is now around $50 with taxes, unless you can find them on sale.

I've known him for a long time, and he had every once fired case from the old beat up box, so we reloaded them and had a coffee. He's good for another 10-15 years.
 
I have a 10 inch practice plate at 280. I hunt under 200, offhand or kneeling. Many one bullet/tag seasons. Never out the window. It actually takes a long time to aim the truck to get comfy. Completely impractical. Recently beat on an IPSC at 950 with a GoBalistic barreled WSM out the window. Had to see what the old M70 had left after 44 years and 4500 rounds.
Good for you, seriously.

Also good for you for practising offhand and kneeling shooting, they're almost forgotten skills.

I see so many folks that never practice shooting at all, except from the bench, and think they will do well off hand in the field.

It's easy to "think" there will be some to rest the rifle on, when needed, but as often as not, it's not solid or non existent, unless it's being carried along.
 
I have seen guys very happy with a couple of shots on the 12 inch paper at 100 yards... that's all the distance they plan on shooting...
I plan on being able to shoot game as far as 500 yards.
I do not need 10 shot groups to do it. If I can't get 3 shots to group, 10 shots will not fix that.
My hunting rifles get tested with 3 shot groups... not one 3 shot group, but after shooting a few and adjusting the poi. I will come back the following week and shoot 3 cold, clean shots on target. Save that target and do it again a week or two later... and again. Eventually I will find out if the poi is stable with a clean barrel and a fouled barrel and I will have the poi set. I have had rifles that required a fouling shot... in a hunting rifle I hate that!

Here are some of the work up targets of 3 different rifles.

3 shots .280 AI.jpg
3 shots.jpg
338 06 TARGET.jpg
 
Once bench accuracy & POI are verified I think off hand practice is worthwhile because some maybe most game I take are inside 100m with quick off hand shots.

oTtw9k1.jpg
 
Similar to Guntech I would only shoot three shot groups. After 100m zero it takes a few weekends checking drops & zero at longer ranges that can be out to over 1000m. I hunt once a week from Sept to end April and at the end of the hunt we mostly have one or more test shots at longer range to check drops / test wind reading at hunting distances of 400 to 500m. Learn something every time. It takes a while to have complete confidence in a rifle. Wind reading needs a lot of practice, we just about always have wind and very high moisture in the air.
edi
 
Similar to Guntech I would only shoot three shot groups. After 100m zero it takes a few weekends checking drops & zero at longer ranges that can be out to over 1000m. I hunt once a week from Sept to end April and at the end of the hunt we mostly have one or more test shots at longer range to check drops / test wind reading at hunting distances of 400 to 500m. Learn something every time. It takes a while to have complete confidence in a rifle. Wind reading needs a lot of practice, we just about always have wind and very high moisture in the air.
edi
EJG, that depends on a lot of things, for most people. There are times when I shoot at 500-600yds, but never at game animals. For me, it's not an ethical shot. That doesn't mean it's not an ethical shot for you though.

After lots of match shooting, I've seen to many "strange" things happen to a bullet after 300yds.

Wind, mirage, uplift from bright sunlight reflecting off the ground, cold downdrafts, shooting downhill, etc. There are lots of other issues as well, mostly with my confidence.

Some folks here have no issues shooting large animals past 500yds. Most of them I don't know, so I can't affirm they actually have the capability to do so. From what I've seen in the field, the vast majority of hunters, is they don't have the capabilities required and shouldn't be doing it.

Shooting beyond 300yds, under most field conditions, is taking a big chance IMHO. That being said, I do know quite a few people who are very capable of such shots consistently.

Every single one of them is like you "anal" about how their rifles shoot the particular load recipe they're hunting with at the time, and they, like you, constantly reaffirm they've figured it out well enough for predictable, consistent performance under as many conditions as possible.

That takes a lot of time and effort, as well as a good ethical compass IMHO.
 
I remember 30-40 years ago folks would say if you can hit a beer can at 100 yards you're good to go.
Nowadays everyone strives to cut a cloverleaf.
How times have changed.
True enough, but back then nobody would think to take shots much over about 200 yards - stalking closer to maneuver yourself into a good position was how most people hunted.

Nowadays it's all about the long shot at extended ranges and buying the necessary equipment to do it which of course the retail market will try to provide. Popular culture has certainly been a big driver of this.
 
True enough, but back then nobody would think to take shots much over about 200 yards - stalking closer to maneuver yourself into a good position was how most people hunted.

Nowadays it's all about the long shot at extended ranges and buying the necessary equipment to do it which of course the retail market will try to provide. Popular culture has certainly been a big driver of this.
Accuracy over the period being discussed has come a long way.

The sort of accuracy we see today from many off the shelf rifles has become the new norm, because of the huge tech advances in manufacturing practices.

Bullets, for instance, now have extremely consistent jacket thicknesses due to the advent of the Juenke Guage, which electronically measures thickness very easily and quickly, rather than pulling the odd jacket out of a batch, cutting it, and measuring with a hand held micrometer.

This enabled the manufacturers to "fix" issues quickly, instead of running off entire batches of inconsistent jackets.

Then, with the advent of CNC equipment, everything got progressively better and just keeps on getting better. This will continue, as long as the manufacturers maintain their machinery.

Good scopes are now mostly the norm. Even low end scopes give excellent accuracy capability today, as long as the scope is built for the type of firearm it's being mounted on.

It's relatively easy to get a rifle, even one manufactured over a century ago, to shoot sub 1.5 moa groups, which are fine for most hunting conditions and the shots most shooters are capable of, out to 300yds.

Accuracy, once a shooter becomes used to it, can easily become an "obsession."

I fell into the accuracy "trap" over 60 years ago, and it still haunts me today.

I'm not nearly as anal about accuracy now as I was twenty years ago, but if a firearm won't shoot the way I want it to, it's either rebarreled, or sold off, with full disclosure, to someone else who doesn't require more, or has an idea to make it shoot better.

I don't have the patience to keep at a particular firearm to bring it around, and prefer to use the time I have left, using the already proven firearms in my safe.

I still like building "fun guns," such as the Martini I'm working on, chambered for the 218 Bee, just because.

When it's no longer fun, it's not worth doing. Hunting, shooting, fishing, etc is a "fun thing" for most of us. Not a necessity, or a chore.

When I was much younger, hunting/fishing, was a necessity. If we didn't do it, table fare was very expensive and boring. The "company stores" in the mining towns, had high costs, when it came to freight charges, and fridges/freezers were often non existent, because there wasn't any electricity to operate them.

Beef and chicken were luxuries during the early years of my life, mostly because there was no way to keep it fresh. Times have changed so much over the past 75 years.
 
EJG, that depends on a lot of things, for most people. There are times when I shoot at 500-600yds, but never at game animals. For me, it's not an ethical shot. That doesn't mean it's not an ethical shot for you though.

After lots of match shooting, I've seen to many "strange" things happen to a bullet after 300yds.

Wind, mirage, uplift from bright sunlight reflecting off the ground, cold downdrafts, shooting downhill, etc. There are lots of other issues as well, mostly with my confidence.

Some folks here have no issues shooting large animals past 500yds. Most of them I don't know, so I can't affirm they actually have the capability to do so. From what I've seen in the field, the vast majority of hunters, is they don't have the capabilities required and shouldn't be doing it.

Shooting beyond 300yds, under most field conditions, is taking a big chance IMHO. That being said, I do know quite a few people who are very capable of such shots consistently.

Every single one of them is like you "anal" about how their rifles shoot the particular load recipe they're hunting with at the time, and they, like you, constantly reaffirm they've figured it out well enough for predictable, consistent performance under as many conditions as possible.

That takes a lot of time and effort, as well as a good ethical compass IMHO.
Years ago I helped a friend sight in a new Savage 30-06 to get ready for his first moose hunting trip. Off a bench he was shooting about a 3" group at 100yds which to be fair wasn't terrible since it was the first time he had shot anything larger than a 22lr. I tried the rifle and easily got a 3/4" 5 shot group off the bench at 100yds so the rifle could shoot. Next we tried a few rounds at 300yds. I think he got 3 out of 5 in a 12" circle. We tried some offhand shots at 100yds as well and he would have hit a pie plate at that range so pretty respectable for his experience level. As we were packing up he thanked me for helping him and said I think I'm good for moose out to 500yds. I stressed to him that I would keep the shots under 200yds max if he could get a good rest on a pack or something and 100yds max offhand. Fortunately for moose he's never had the opportunity for a shot over 100yds. Personally I would hesitate to take a shot at 300yds on game, bragging rights to me is getting so close I have to back up a step to aim lol. That's more hunting skill to me than how far away I can shoot at something.
 
I have also seen that happen.

Hunters especially have a tendency to overestimate their capabilities without testing for the same. Many times even after basic testing they still overestimate their abilities.

Competitors in the shooting sports not so much as you are constantly under scrutiny by all your peers. If you can't do what you claim, fellow competitors are naturally going to ask "So what happened out there?" Expectations and ego have a tendency to be managed. IMHO
Years ago I helped a friend sight in a new Savage 30-06 to get ready for his first moose hunting trip. Off a bench he was shooting about a 3" group at 100yds which to be fair wasn't terrible since it was the first time he had shot anything larger than a 22lr. I tried the rifle and easily got a 3/4" 5 shot group off the bench at 100yds so the rifle could shoot. Next we tried a few rounds at 300yds. I think he got 3 out of 5 in a 12" circle. We tried some offhand shots at 100yds as well and he would have hit a pie plate at that range so pretty respectable for his experience level. As we were packing up he thanked me for helping him and said I think I'm good for moose out to 500yds. I stressed to him that I would keep the shots under 200yds max if he could get a good rest on a pack or something and 100yds max offhand. Fortunately for moose he's never had the opportunity for a shot over 100yds. Personally I would hesitate to take a shot at 300yds on game, bragging rights to me is getting so close I have to back up a step to aim lol. That's more hunting skill to me than how far away I can shoot at something.
 
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